Mega Hop recipies - Are they crazy?

[Michael_Calgary]

So let me start out by saying this. I have been into All Grain for almost two years now. With respects to hops, I am certainly finding that I am enjoying recipes that have more hops in them than say, 1.5 years ago. My typical beers will have 1 to 1.5 oz of hops for the entire 5 gallon batch.

Having said that, I am seeing 5 gallon recipes that have INSANE amounts of hops in them! I am just curious... are these people just over the top "hop heads", or am I missing something here?

Like one recipe I recently looked at, (Sorry, I couldn't find it again or I would have linked it here) I cannot imagine adding 4 oz of various hops during the boil and then another 4 ounces dry hop. How could this even be drinkable?

Anybody out there use crazy amounts of hops? I am curious to hear some feedback and maybe a recipe or two.

 

[TwistedGray]

I brewed this a few months back, and it has almost 9 ounces of hops in a 5 gallon batch. I just brewed an IPA with 4 ounces of hops, and that's only a 2 gallon batch.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

I brewed this a few months back, and it has almost 9 ounces of hops in a 5 gallon batch. I just brewed an IPA with 4 ounces of hops, and that's only a 2 gallon batch.

Oh wow. ya that is a bunch of hops. But I see that the bittering hops are really only a small amount. Can I ask your explanation of what this tastes like? I've actually been looking at beers lately that look like the picture in the recipe you quoted. Or something like a NEIPA.

 

[TwistedGray]

Oh wow. ya that is a bunch of hops. But I see that the bittering hops are really only a small amount. Can I ask your explanation of what this tastes like? I've actually been looking at beers lately that look like the picture in the recipe you quoted. Or something like a NEIPA.

It's a juicy, tropical, low IBU NEIPA

 

[Michael_Calgary]

It's a juicy, tropical, low IBU NEIPA

So it has a "Fruity" flavour?

 

[TwistedGray]

So it has a "Fruity" flavour?

From the hops, fermenting temp., and yes selection

 

[bleme]

IPA recipes using a pound of hops are not uncommon, but they definitely aren't for everybody.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

From the hops, fermenting temp., and yes selection

Hmm. My wife has been asking for something "Fruity"... to tell you the truth, my interest is also peaked on this style of beer. So are NEIPA's cloudy because the yeast is still in the beer? Or is there something else going on that I am not familiar with?

 

[TwistedGray]

Hmm. My wife has been asking for something "Fruity"... to tell you the truth, my interest is also peaked on this style of beer. So are NEIPA'a cloudy because the yeast is still in the beer? Or is there something else going on that I am not familiar with?

Do a quick search and you will find several threads about this topic on the forum. If you want to start somewhere, start here - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-makes-a-neipa-hazy.648800/

To answer your question, no it's not because of the yeast.

 

[ca_baracus]

Also check out this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/. It's huge and @Braufessor gives some great recipes and tips. My NEIPA on tap now is 80% 2-row, 10% white wheat, and 10% flaked oats. Half ounce of bittering hops (Columbus) at 60mins; then 6oz of whirlpool hops once I chill the wort to around 160ºF. Another 6oz dry hop 2 days into fermentation. This time around, I keg hopped with 1oz of cryo hops. It's quite juicy/fruity/tropical. I've been using 3oz Citra, 2oz El Dorado, 1oz Galaxy for both of the 6oz hop additions. Cryo hops are Citra.

 

[z-bob]

So let me start out by saying this. I have been into All Grain for almost two years now. With respects to hops, I am certainly finding that I am enjoying recipes that have more hops in them than say, 1.5 years ago. My typical beers will have 1 to 1.5 oz of hops for the entire 5 gallon batch.

Having said that, I am seeing 5 gallon recipes that have INSANE amounts of hops in them! I am just curious... are these people just over the top "hop heads", or am I missing something here?

Like one recipe I recently looked at, (Sorry, I couldn't find it again or I would have linked it here) I cannot imagine adding 4 oz of various hops during the boil and then another 4 ounces dry hop. How could this even be drinkable?

Anybody out there use crazy amounts of hops? I am curious to hear some feedback and maybe a recipe or two.

I started brewing again about 4 years ago, after having stopped for about 20 years. And I ordered 3 pounds of hops from Hops Direct. It turns out, the styles that I like only need about 1 or 1.5 ounces.

So I still have most of them. Luckily, they keep for a long time in the deep freezer. My next beer will be an IPA that requires 6 ounces of hops for 5 gallons (I'm scaling it back to 4 gallons) so that might actually make a dent. It will be my first time to add hops to the fermentor.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Do a quick search and you will find several threads about this topic on the forum. If you want to start somewhere, start here - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-makes-a-neipa-hazy.648800/

To answer your question, no it's not because of the yeast.

Thank you. Reading now...

 

[thehaze]

It all comes down to personal taste. For 5 gallons, 1.5 oz hops is nothing. Most of my hoppy beers, and a great deal of them are not even dry hopped, generally use between 9 ands 20 oz hops. Those I dry hop, use 15-20 oz in total.

I will say that those recipes with only 9 oz with no dry hopping are recipes, where no " classic " bittering charge is added and I actually start hopping from the last 15 minutes in the boil, ending with a big whirlpool done at 160F. This adds enough aroma and flavour in the beer, without the need to dry hop. But it depends on the recipe, malts, water profile, hop profile, beer style, etc.

But an IPA, West Coast or hazy, for my tastes needs hops at every step: late additions, whirlpool, during and after fermentation. I just bottled a 6.7% IPA today, which only used Weyermann Pale Ale, US-05 and 50% Vic Secret and 50% Amarillo, amounting to 15 oz in total. The aroma and flavour of the warm, uncarbonated beer was amazing. So in 7 days, I will try it and hope it will be as good as the other ones I brewed recently.

 

[GPP33]

I’ll second that 1-1.5oz is nothing. That what you’ll put into a beer that should have NO hop aroma or flavor. A big IPA can easily crest a pound of hops in 5 gal. What does it taste like? A delicious hoppy IPA.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

...ending with a big whirlpool done at 160F. This adds enough aroma and flavour in the beer, without the need to dry hop

So with this statement, are you stating that a hop addition during whirlpool will complete replace a dry hop? Even dry hopping for 7 days? Reason I am asking is that a buddy of mine uses my equipment to brew his own all grain till he can afford to buy his own equipment. He is doing hop additions during whirlpool. I have never tried his beer nor have I ever hopped during whirlpool or dry hopped. So I have no idea how beer would taste using those methods. But... I want to try a whirlpool hop addition when I find a suitable recipe.

 

[Dhm8484]

I'm brewing a pale ale 5.5 gallons this Thursday and it has 4 oz of hops, debating to dry hop or not

 

[thehaze]

It will not replace a dry hop. I usually dry hop beers where a dry hopping will complete the beer, like an IPA or a hoppier Pale Ale.

For a Blonde Ale or Kolsch, I can skip the dry hop. I definitely do not want too much of a hop presence, but still enough to know there is hops in that beer. You can of course dry hop any beer you make, even belgians or hefes, but I wouldn't do that. It's not needed for all, but some could benefit from more hops.

I never thought I could brew hoppy, crisp, refreshing beers without dry hopping, but it's definitely possible.

 

[brewbama]

Saying you’re adding hops by weight is somewhat misleading. It depends on which hop you’re adding (and when). Adding 2oz of a noble hop in the 4-5 Alpha Acid range at 60 min is a lot different that adding 2oz of a much higher AA hop — Magnum for instance — at 60 min. Big difference.

I’m no hop head and easily add up to 3 oz of hops in 5 gal but that means nothing. Saying I have 45 IBU(s) means more.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've made plenty of beers with less than 1 oz in a 5.5 gal batch.

Conversely, I've done some IPAs where the hops push almost 2lbs in a 5 gal batch (Double NEIPAs). That said, those were a waste. Some studies out there (presented at CBC) showing that hopping at that latter rate shows no appreciable flavor/aroma increase over lower (but still high) rates. If I recall correctly, it works out that in a 5.5 gal batch, 8-12 oz of late hops (between late boil, whirlpool, and dry hop) is at the point of diminishing returns (actual study says more like 6-8 oz mathematically but making an adjustment for decreased utilization at small scale- in my experience for a SUPER hoppy beer 6 oz late hops at that volume is not enough, where on a bigger commercial system it can definitely be)

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Look at it this way. Hops bring 3 things to the table: bitterness, flavor and aroma. With a lot of the newer IPAs (especially NEIPAs), the focus is more on the hop flavor and aroma than on bitterness.

Now consider this: the later in the boil/chill process you add hops, the less they contribute to bitterness and the more they contribute to flavor and aroma. So, a 1 oz addition at 60 minutes could bring 40+ IBUs. You can get those same 40 IBUs by adding 1 oz at 5 minutes, 3 oz at flameout and another 3 or 4 ozs as a whirlpool addition at 170 degrees. So, you get the same bitterness, but you get a metric crapton of flavor and aroma. With many of the newer hops (Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, El Dorado, etc., they bring wonderful citrus and fruit flavors. The first time I had a beer of this style I really struggled with the idea that all that flavor came solely from hops...that no fruit was added.

It's a fun style to experiment with. Many beer purists don't like it, complaining that it's really just hop water, but if you like the flavors, choose the right malt bill and water profile, you get a delicious beer with fuit accents and a nice mouthfeel.

With the wrong hops, it could get very nasty however.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Look at it this way. Hops bring 3 things to the table: bitterness, flavor and aroma. With a lot of the newer IPAs (especially NEIPAs), the focus is more on the hop flavor and aroma than on bitterness.

Now consider this: the later in the boil/chill process you add hops, the less they contribute to bitterness and the more they contribute to flavor and aroma. So, a 1 oz addition at 60 minutes could bring 40+ IBUs. You can get those same 40 IBUs by adding 1 oz at 5 minutes, 3 oz at flameout and another 3 or 4 ozs as a whirlpool addition at 170 degrees. So, you get the same bitterness, but you get a metric crapton of flavor and aroma. With many of the newer hops (Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, El Dorado, etc., they bring wonderful citrus and fruit flavors. The first time I had a beer of this style I really struggled with the idea that all that flavor came solely from hops...that no fruit was added.

It's a fun style to experiment with. Many beer purists don't like it, complaining that it's really just hop water, but if you like the flavors, choose the right malt bill and water profile, you get a delicious beer with fuit accents and a nice mouthfeel.

With the wrong hops, it could get very nasty however.

Your explanation is perfect for my brain! You know, it was sort of rattling around in my head about the boil time vs IBU's... the thought just didn't fully surface.

I love Citra Hops. I brew a (sort of) SMaSH that uses Citra. but it is only one ounce in total with two hop additions. I am going to try that NEIPA that TwistedGray linked above. I think this will satisfy my wife's request and also mine for trying something with what I consider lots of hops.