Maybe I don't like Columbus hops? (First NEIPA)

[TravelingLight]

I just did my first NEIPA. Overall, I'm pleased with it. But I already know several things I want to improve on and I'm ready to brew this beer again. Here's the recipe for reference...

(All Grain, 5 gallon batch)
6# 2-Row
4# Pale
1# Flaked Wheat
0.5# Flaked Oats
0.5# Honey Malt
1# Sugar

1 oz. Columbus @60
1 El Dorado @FO
1 Citra @FO
1 Mosaic @FO
1 El Dorado @WP/HS
1 Citra @WP/HS
1.5 Mosaic @WP/HS
2 Citra, 1 Eldorado @DH
1 Citra, 2 Mosaic @DH
1 Citra leaf keg hop

I've used Columbus one other time for bittering, but it was on my second beer, which was extract, so I can't remember much about it. I don't love the bittering taste on this beer. It's hard to explain, but maybe it lingers too long? It's definitely overshadowing some of the other hops that are there, but begging to sing louder. Anyone else have any advice? My brother said essentially the same thing when he tried it. I'm thinking about going back to Warrior or Nugget when I brew this again.

Also, I want better head retention!! Should I bump up the wheat and/or oats for better head retention?

 

[cegan09]

You don't want a huge bittering addition for these beers. I think mine is 0.75oz at 60. Aim for the 35IBU region with that bittering addition. I've traditionally used warrior, but that doesn't mean much.

 

[timdillon36]

I just read this article.

https://www.homebrewersassociation....l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

They were saying to use 1% of your hops at FW and the rest at FO and later.

Edit: are you sure it's not the Citra you don't like?

 

[cegan09]

I just read this article.

https://www.homebrewersassociation....l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

They were saying to use 1% of your hops at FW and the rest at FO and later.

1% seems low. If I'm using 12oz to make 5 gallons, that says use .1oz as first wort. I wouldn't jump right to that. Like I said, aim for 35IBU of boil hops, be it 60 or 30 minutes, and then the rest are flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops.

I had one batch come out almost exactly as the OP described. It was a 3 gallon batch that I accidentally added twice the boil addition that I intended (added 1oz, instead of 1/2oz). Every other batch I've been using that 35 goal and they are really good. Aroma and flavor are the predominate factors, with just enough bitterness to balance it out.

 

[TravelingLight]

You don't want a huge bittering addition for these beers. I think mine is 0.75oz at 60. Aim for the 35IBU region with that bittering addition. I've traditionally used warrior, but that doesn't mean much.

Thanks for the heads up. I've also been looking at first wort hopping. Never done it before, but from what little I've read so far, it seems that FWH is a smoother bittering and allows the later additions to shine more. I think I may try FWH the next time I brew this beer. Thanks.

I just read this article.

https://www.homebrewersassociation....l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

They were saying to use 1% of your hops at FW and the rest at FO and later.

Edit: are you sure it's not the Citra you don't like?

Thanks for the link. I doubt it's the citra. I've used citra in virtually every IPA I've made because I like it so much.

 

[rhys333]

I just did my first NEIPA. Overall, I'm pleased with it. But I already know several things I want to improve on and I'm ready to brew this beer again. Here's the recipe for reference...

(All Grain, 5 gallon batch)
6# 2-Row
4# Pale
1# Flaked Wheat
0.5# Flaked Oats
0.5# Honey Malt
1# Sugar

1 oz. Columbus @60
1 El Dorado @FO
1 Citra @FO
1 Mosaic @FO
1 El Dorado @WP/HS
1 Citra @WP/HS
1.5 Mosaic @WP/HS
2 Citra, 1 Eldorado @DH
1 Citra, 2 Mosaic @DH
1 Citra leaf keg hop

I've used Columbus one other time for bittering, but it was on my second beer, which was extract, so I can't remember much about it. I don't love the bittering taste on this beer. It's hard to explain, but maybe it lingers too long? It's definitely overshadowing some of the other hops that are there, but begging to sing louder. Anyone else have any advice? My brother said essentially the same thing when he tried it. I'm thinking about going back to Warrior or Nugget when I brew this again.

Also, I want better head retention!! Should I bump up the wheat and/or oats for better head retention?

It could be bitterness due to overhopping if it takes forever to chill, but another likely candidate is tannin extraction due mash pH issues. Are you treating your water? If not then the lingering bitterness you experience is probably due to this. The water primer in the brew science section is a worthwhile read.

 

[TravelingLight]

It could be bitterness due to overhopping if it takes forever to chill, but another likely candidate is tannin extraction due mash pH issues. Are you treating your water? If not then the lingering bitterness you experience is probably due to this. The water primer in the brew science section is a worthwhile read.

Took about 20 minutes to chill, per my notes. I did not treat the water. I've done it before but it's not part of my usual process. I'm waiting on an updated water report from the city.

 

[rhys333]

Took about 20 minutes to chill, per my notes. I did not treat the water. I've done it before but it's not part of my usual process. I'm waiting on an updated water report from the city.

Which city are you in? Might be able to get you a quick answer.

EDIT: i see Capital City.

 

[rhys333]

Managed to find this on the City site:

Chloride: 10
Sulfate: 15
Alkalinity: 25
Calcium: ?
Magnesium: ?
Not seeing the full report, but this is included with the info:
For commercial customers with boilers or chillers, breweries, and other customers who need additional
information, please contact Jonathan Sherer, Water Works Specialist, at (803) 255-8160 or jdsherer@
columbiasc.net.

 

[crusader1612]

1% seems low. If I'm using 12oz to make 5 gallons, that says use .1oz as first wort. I wouldn't jump right to that. Like I said, aim for 35IBU of boil hops, be it 60 or 30 minutes, and then the rest are flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops.

I had one batch come out almost exactly as the OP described. It was a 3 gallon batch that I accidentally added twice the boil addition that I intended (added 1oz, instead of 1/2oz). Every other batch I've been using that 35 goal and they are really good. Aroma and flavor are the predominate factors, with just enough bitterness to balance it out.

agreed 1% seems very low
if it was me i wouldn't changt he bittering too much, just switch it out to a FWH instead. nice simple change, which makes a big difference in bitterness, it'll be softer

 

[Upthewazzu]

I'm with you on the Columbus hops. i did an IIPA with 1oz Columbus as my FWH and IMO it ruined what would have been a pretty awesome beer.

 

[TravelingLight]

Which city are you in? Might be able to get you a quick answer.

EDIT: i see Capital City.

Managed to find this on the City site:

Chloride: 10
Sulfate: 15
Alkalinity: 25
Calcium: ?
Magnesium: ?
Not seeing the full report, but this is included with the info:
For commercial customers with boilers or chillers, breweries, and other customers who need additional
information, please contact Jonathan Sherer, Water Works Specialist, at (803) 255-8160 or jdsherer@
columbiasc.net.

Yeah, I'm in Columbia. I got a more detailed report from them last year. However, last October (2015) we had massive flooding in the state and I know for a fact it screwed up the water supply and I suspect things are just getting back to "normal," i.e., I'm not certain how accurate my current report is. I'm hoping to get an accurate, current one soon, just haven't had a chance to get on that yet.

 

[rhys333]

Yeah, I'm in Columbia. I got a more detailed report from them last year. However, last October (2015) we had massive flooding in the state and I know for a fact it screwed up the water supply and I suspect things are just getting back to "normal," i.e., I'm not certain how accurate my current report is. I'm hoping to get an accurate, current one soon, just haven't had a chance to get on that yet.

You've probably heard it before, but I recommend considering a switch to RO/distilled water and building up minerals as needed. I made the switch after battling with mineral fluctuations due to river water supply. I often experienced a harsh bitter twang and muddled or flat flavors until I gave up on my local water.

 

[GonzoNerd]

Funny you should mention this. I am dumping an IPA I made with nothing but Columbus hops.

I might experiment with using them in the future but I am pretty gun shy about using them right now.

 

[Oldskewl]

I would try cutting the bittering addition in half next time, move it to FWH and see what you think. NEIPA are typically not bitter and all about the aroma hops which can add some ibus that most software does not recognize.

 

[GPP33]

1% seems low. If I'm using 12oz to make 5 gallons, that says use .1oz as first wort. I wouldn't jump right to that. Like I said, aim for 35IBU of boil hops, be it 60 or 30 minutes, and then the rest are flame out, whirlpool, and dry hops.

I had one batch come out almost exactly as the OP described. It was a 3 gallon batch that I accidentally added twice the boil addition that I intended (added 1oz, instead of 1/2oz). Every other batch I've been using that 35 goal and they are really good. Aroma and flavor are the predominate factors, with just enough bitterness to balance it out.

Checked my notes and my best PA/IPAs have been about 33 to 35 IBUs from FWH.

 

[TravelingLight]

Funny you should mention this. I am dumping an IPA I made with nothing but Columbus hops.

I might experiment with using them in the future but I am pretty gun shy about using them right now.

They're definitely at the bottom of my list for now. Damn thing is, the only reason I used them for this beer was because I had them on hand and I never really care what I use for my bittering hop. Well, used to never care. I absolutely care now!

You've probably heard it before, but I recommend considering a switch to RO/distilled water and building up minerals as needed. I made the switch after battling with mineral fluctuations due to river water supply. I often experienced a harsh bitter twang and muddled or flat flavors until I gave up on my local water.

Yeah...I've heard it. Maybe I'm stubborn but I just can't force myself to believe that it's necessary. I've got a homebrew buddy who brews on the same city water supply as I do, and he treats his water, and makes excellent beer. This is also my 6th beer I've brewed, and all of them have been on the same city water supply. I only treated water for one of the beers and haven't had any trouble. Moreover, I used to maintain a solid hydroponic garden, and I used city water for that. We've got pretty decent water here, all things considered. And if I can grow hydro with it, there's no reason it shouldn't work fine for beer, IMHO.

I would try cutting the bittering addition in half next time, move it to FWH and see what you think. NEIPA are typically not bitter and all about the aroma hops which can add some ibus that most software does not recognize.

I agree. I'm absolutely cutting it in half next time, doing it as FWH, and using a different hop altogether. Probably go back to warrior or nugget.

Checked my notes and my best PA/IPAs have been about 33 to 35 IBUs from FWH.

Excellent, thanks. I didn't write down the IBUs in my book for this one. I could go calculate it, but IIRC I think it was at least 55ish.

 

[WBCo]

I brew a lot of NEIPAs because I don't have any local breweries making any and I enjoy them quite a bit. Looking at a few of my recent recipes, I've been bittering somewhere between 20-25 IBUs with Warrior as a FWH.

I just tasted a NEIPA that I brewed using Columbus as my only bittering addition (first time doing this.) I used 0.5 oz of Columbus as a FWH which put me at 19.6 IBUs for that addition. No complaints here, but I like Columbus.

 

[rhys333]

You don't have to treat water as long as you brew beer styles that work with your water supply. Venture outside of that and the beer quality and mash efficiency suffers. It's why Dublin brews stout and Pilsen brews Pilsener. I have pretty alkaline water here and couldn't brew a decent pale ale to save my life due to high mash pH issues. This gives a pretty decent overview of what's going on:

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals

 

[rhys333]

Never had an issue with Columbus hops, in fact I have a pound in storage for late additions in pales and wheats. Bittering hops can be smoother or coarser in character, but any given variety isn't going to ruin a beer as long as they're used in balance. If you have a dumper @GonzoNerd its almost certainly due to something other than hop choice.