maximum fermentables in crystal malts

[reinstone]

Hi, my question is two fold.
I am wondering the amount fermentable sugars that can be produced by crystal malts.

I have decided to take a new direction on a rye beer and want to use some crystal 120.

I would like to know if anyone knows what kind of affect crystal malts have on final gravity, as i dont want it to be too sweet.

thanks

 

[Mojzis]

To my understanding:

The point of crystal malts are to add the perception of sweetness to the beer, along with other flavors that vary with the lovibond. Generally the lighter the color of the crystal malt, the sweeter it tends to be perceived. As it gets darker, you get more toffee and thicker flavors. That is why a lot of experienced brewers know how to layer these to create a good/complex beer.

Crystal malts are made by mashing then baking to create unfermentable sugars and caramel flavors. This means they will add body and sweetness to a beer and should be used in confined amounts (in lighter beers anyway).

Beersmith tells me the potential of Crystal120 is 1.033 SG.

Hope this helps.

 

[Grannyknot]

Lots of opinions on this.
Mine is that yes, they don't produce quite the amount of fermentable sugars that your base malt makes, but when used in small quantities with a 2 or 6 row malt, it is hardly noticeable. It is sort of a proportional relationship.

I think that until you start using more than 1.5lbs of caramel, roasted, or toasted on a 5 gal recipe you aren't going to see higher FGs. That's just from my experience though.

As for the C120, take a look at Avery brewings recipes. They use small amounts of 120 in almost every recipe rather than larger amounts of 40 & 60.

 

[lockwom]

This thread might help you:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/testing-fermentability-crystal-malt-208361/

 

[Walking_Target]

As above, crystal malts will contribute to the perceived sweetness and body of the beer; this is because a portion of the available sugars caramelize during the kilning and become unfermentable.

They'll still throw your SG off, as they are sugars, they just can't be fermented.

I'd suggest no more than 8oz of total crystal malt per 5 gallon batch, most grain bills i've been reading through call for about 6oz, I made the mistake of using a full pound in a 3 gallon batch not so long ago and it gave a very off flavor.

 

[reinstone]

So would 3lbs in a 35 lb batch be too much.

It's for an ipa. Wanted to add a little cara foam too? Also 6 lbs rye. I want a real low mash.......like 147

 

[duboman]

So would 3lbs in a 35 lb batch be too much.

It's for an ipa. Wanted to add a little cara foam too? Also 6 lbs rye. I want a real low mash.......like 147

It would be better if you listed the entire recipe so we can see what everything is. A lot of people will recommend no more than a certain percentage of a grain bill be for certain types of malts used.

If you list your recipe then it can be critiqued.

 

[reinstone]

Give me a few.

 

[reinstone]

The recipe is for 12 gallons.

22lbs two row
4 lbs rye malt
1 lb carafoam
3 lbs flaked rye
3 lbs crystal 120
4 oz black patent.

wl California v yeast with appropriate starter.

Basically unlimited hops. Wanna mash 148 for this ipa

Want it balanced but not cloyingly sweet.

 

[afr0byte]

The recipe is for 12 gallons.

22lbs two row
4 lbs rye malt
1 lb carafoam
3 lbs flaked rye
3 lbs crystal 120
4 oz black patent.

wl California v yeast with appropriate starter.

Basically unlimited hops. Wanna mash 148 for this ipa

Want it balanced but not cloyingly sweet.

I'd remove the crystal 120 and black patent. I'd then make up the gravity points with 2-row, or perhaps mostly 2-row and up the carafoam by .5-1lb

 

[Walking_Target]

yeah... IPA doesn't jive with Crystal 120 or black patent. It's India Pale Ale.

You can make an India Dark Ale, but you need to add more toffee flavors to pull that off, maybe make up about half of the grain bill with Munich or Vienna malt instead of two row and add some flaked (or torrified) wheat instead of the CaraFoam. In either case, i'd think you could get better head retention and colour by using a dextrin bearing base grain in concert with your current bill.

Then again, take this with a giant grain of salt, I've been brewing for about 8 years but so far I only do partial-mash or just extract with specialty steeping grains as my thing; I basically treat my extract as if it were 2-row and mash or steep grain depending on what profile i'm going for. My move to true all grain won't be for another few weeks (my 2-port kettle/mash tun are now officially on order )

 

[Grannyknot]

Avery Brewing IPA:
Pale 2-Row – 94%
Munich – 4%
C-120 – 2%

 

[reinstone]

Screw it. Why fix it if it ain't broke. I have a good red rye ale recipe.....I'll just hop the yeast out of it. Fwh and all post 20 min additions.