Mash pH 4.6

[GrizzlyBier]

Hello, I brewed 10 gal of IPA yesterday. I used 3 different water calculators that told me to add 1 tsp of lactic acid to bring the pH to 5.4. Well, I should've measured it before I put that in because I measured it afterwards and it was about 4.6 according to the test strips. I made sure to cool it down to room temp before measuring. My conversion efficiency sucked; I was 10 points below what Beersmith predicted. This is the first time I've had poor efficiency. I'm thinking the low pH hurt the conversion. I do have a pH meter but don't have the storage fluid so I just used the strips. Is my conclusion correct? I'm really just learning about H20 chems.

I also added probably too much gypsum trying to increase my sulfate. But now I'm learning that the sulfate to chloride ratio should be close to 1 and mine is about 8 to 1! What's more is it hasn't started fermenting yet (don't know if that's related to these issues or not)

Thanks!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Was your lactic acid the same strength as what the calculators used?
In a 5 gal batch, even with RO water, I can't see 1tsp of 88% lactic taking the pH to 4.6. You did use a teaspoon (5mL), not a tablespoon (15 to 25mL)?
Test strips are notoriously inaccurate. I think the conclusion is they are consistenly 0.3pH units out. That would mean a real pH of 4.9.
Yes, pH will affect conversion. Beta amylase works best at about 5.0 to 5.4 (going from memory - don't quote me, but it's something like that) and Alpha amylase something like 5.3 to 5.8. If you had a normal mid-temp sort of rest, Alpha and Beta would have both been very slow acting due to temp and pH.
Did you account for the gypsum when you worked out your acid addition? Gypsum also lowers pH.
There's no 'should be' for sulphate to chloride ratio. 8 to 1 is quite traditional for an IPA - bitter and dry. 1 to 1 is a new fad with NEIPA's with a softer, less bitter taste. I prefer something in between.
Even if the pH is 4.6, it won't stop fermentation. The 'lag' phase with a ferment partly to do with yeast lowering the pH of their environment (wort) to around that pH to stop other organisms from growing in it. I've successfully used yeast in sour beer at a pH of 3.2 before pitching the yeast (soured from Lacto).
EDIT: I just read it was a 10gal batch. There is NO WAY that 1tsp of lactic acid on it's own could lower the pH to 4.9. Unless it was a black IPA? Were there lots of crystal or roasted grains?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How much gypsum and other salts did you add?

 

[GrizzlyBier]

How much gypsum and other salts did you add?

I added 20 grams to about 20 gal altogether. I only needed 16.5, but have to add 4 gal to HLT to cover the herms coil. I end up leaving about 4 gal in the HLT after transferring the sparge water. My mash and sparge volumes are 7.8 and 8.5 respectively. Brun Water and EZ Water Calculator both give me a mash pH of 5.4 with the addition of 5ml of 88% lactic acid and 1g/gal gypsum. No other salts or additions.

Grain bill is 4% crystal 60L, 4% crystal 20L, 16% Munich malt 20L, 75% Pale Maris Otter/Vienna (3 SRM).

 

[Gnomebrewer]

There is no way that got to a 4.6 pH. Toss the test strips.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

With all of that Crystal, Munich, and gypsum in it I'm shocked that any software would indicate a need for as much lactic acid as you added. This recipe should mash at a respectable pH with no added acid.

That said, I agree with @Gnomebrewer that there is no way 1 TSP of 88% lactic acid would drive this recipe to pH 4.6. 5.2 perhaps, but not 4.6.

Did you properly classify each of the grist components within the three software packages that you utilized? Does your source water have alkalinity, and it so, how much?

 

[GrizzlyBier]

There is no way that got to a 4.6 pH. Toss the test strips.

OK Yeah, need to get the storage solution for my meter.

 

[GrizzlyBier]

With all of that Crystal, Munich, and gypsum in it I'm shocked that any software would indicate a need for as much lactic acid as you added. This recipe should mash at a respectable pH with no added acid.

That said, I agree with @Gnomebrewer that there is no way 1 TSP of 88% lactic acid would drive this recipe to pH 4.6. 5.2 perhaps, but not 4.6.

Did you properly classify each of the grist components within the three software packages that you utilized? Does your source water have alkalinity, and it so, how much?

I did classify the grains properly. Source water is 106 ppm. Brun Water says it goes to 9 with 0.1 tsp (.5ml) per gallon lactic acid.
I really shouldn't have even messed with it. The software said it would only decrease from 5.6 to 5.4. Not sure why I felt I needed to be on the low end vs. the high end.

 

[GrizzlyBier]

Beer is fermenting nicely now. I harvested the yeast that I used from a prior brew. It's only a couple of months old. I'm thinking maybe the lag was due to pitching temp being a bit low (65F). I left the jar of yeast out during the day and it popped and deformed the mason jar lid so I know it was alive. It was a 1.5 inch thick yeast cake in a quart jar. After 24 hours of no activity I pitched a packet of US-05 into the wort. Came home after work today and it's cookin'

 

[dmtaylor]

Maybe... stop adding crap to your water and just use raw water, then your problems might all go away. I haven't found water treatment to be anywhere near as important as most people make it out to be. I don't do much water treatment anymore. Just Campden to remove chlorine and that's all.

 

[Bobby_M]

Maybe... stop adding crap to your water and just use raw water, then your problems might all go away. I haven't found water treatment to be anywhere near as important as most people make it out to be. I don't do much water treatment anymore. Just Campden to remove chlorine and that's all.

It certainly depends on what you starting with. My water couldn't make a drinkable beer so my experience is the opposite of yours.

 

[dmtaylor]

It certainly depends on what you starting with. My water couldn't make a drinkable beer so my experience is the opposite of yours.

Indeed, there are always exceptions to everything under the sun.

 

[kevin58]

Martin Brungard was on a recent episode of the experimental brewing podcast. Give that a listen. There are even some tips near the end of the episode on how to make corrections after fermentation is done.
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-45-water-water-everywhere

 

[GrizzlyBier]

Maybe... stop adding crap to your water and just use raw water, then your problems might all go away. I haven't found water treatment to be anywhere near as important as most people make it out to be. I don't do much water treatment anymore. Just Campden to remove chlorine and that's all.

I use Camden with my filtered tap water. Does it take out chlorine AND chloramines? Or do you let it stand over night to let the chlorine evaporate out?

 

[dmtaylor]

I use Camden with my filtered tap water. Does it take out chlorine AND chloramines? Or do you let it stand over night to let the chlorine evaporate out?

Campden works on both hypochlorite (bleach or "chlorine") and chloramine. No need to wait, the reactions are instantaneous.

Cheers.