Mash Guidance

[Silly Yak]

Hey Y'all,

To be honest my last all grain brew was a disaster. I used a GFHB Pale Ale kit with AMG-300 and got sub 3.0 ABV. Did a single infusion mash at the GFHB recommended temperature of 163.4 F. To be honest I never did a conversion test. I'm brewing on the 23rd and wanted feedback on mash thickness and enzymes for my next brew. Looking at brewing a Space Dust IPA Clone:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: GF Space Dust Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.044
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.060
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 6.55%
IBU (tinseth): 77.91
SRM (morey): 7.19

FERMENTABLES:
15 lb - American - Pale Millet Malt - Gluten Free (71.4%)
3 lb - American - Crystal 10L Millet Malt - Gluten Free (14.3%)
1 lb - American - Buckwheat Malt - Gluten Free (4.8%)
2 lb - Rice Hulls (9.5%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 23.7
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 35.21
1 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 18.99
2 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
2 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 170 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 23.2 qt
2) Temperature, Temp: 150 F, Time: 120 min, Amount: 5.3 qt
3) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 14 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.2 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

I wanted to get opinions on my grain bill along with the mash schedule. Infusion mash will be a Termamyl enzyme addition and the temperature infusion will be a SEBAmyl L addition.

Thanks

 

[Amadeo38]

I know nothing about this Gluten Free business, but don’t think it should differ from the regular mash temp process to such a degree. Mashing at 168-170 is sparge temperature, not single infusion mash temperature. This is likely why you ended up with a 3% ABV beer - because you had a lot of unfermentables due to high mash temp. Try mashing at 150-152F for the whole 60’ then use 170F water to rinse after draining off the first runnings.

 

[ba-brewer]

I don't know anything about GF brewing either but did a quick search on millet malt(never knew the was such a thing), they recommend to mash at 73C so your instructions seem correct.
https://www.glutenfreehomebrewing.org/STOREProduct/944/Pale-Millet-Malt--5-LB.html

Looks like you get less sugar per pound from millet according to some of the comments, so your total grain weight seem like it is in the ball park.


If you are adding enzymes go by the recommendation for them they should have the appropriate temp range.

edit:
looking at the hops, you certainly can add citra at 40mins, but you loose a lot of that hops character adding it then. I think I would add more chinook at 60 or 40min and save the citra for dry hopping or a flame out addition.

 

[rjmaillie]

I think you should make out better on this one. The mash schedule and enzymes look solid. And your efficiency will probably go up too.

While almost 15% crystal looks like it might be too much, I always feel like I never add enough ... and the IBUs will balance that out so I think you should be ok there. The only thing I would add is a bit more buckwheat. Go to 10% of the grain bill there for additional help with body and head retention.

Have fun and let us know how it turns out.

 

[skleice]

My single infusions with AMG-300 also got terrible efficiency. You will definitely see a big boost for this brew. That Termamyl is a beast. What is your crush like? You should probably search some @glutarded-chris posts since your using his method of starting with thickness A and then adding water to reach your lower temp and getting thickness B. I believe he crushes everything together at .5, but not sure on that number.

I agree with @rjmaillie about going to 10% buckwheat to help with body and head retention. I also agree about moving some of your hop additions later in the boil (but it depends on what you're going for). I would move the Citra & Amarillo to at least the last 15 minutes. You'll have to adjust amounts for your ibu's.

Hope that helps. I'm sure you'll see an improvement with this method!

 

[Silly Yak]

Thanks @rjmaillie and @skleice. I'm getting 2 lbs of buckwheat from GFHB so I can easily up the percentage to around 10% of the grain bill. I forgot to add that I'm actually using 3 lbs of Goldfinch Millet Malt instead of Crystal but apparently this malt is not in Brewersfriend. Another addition to the mix is a chugger pump for recirculating and sparging which I'm hopeful will increase my efficiency.

 

[skleice]

Thanks @rjmaillie and @skleice. I'm getting 2 lbs of buckwheat from GFHB so I can easily up the percentage to around 10% of the grain bill. I forgot to add that I'm actually using 3 lbs of Goldfinch Millet Malt instead of Crystal but apparently this malt is not in Brewersfriend. Another addition to the mix is a chugger pump for recirculating and sparging which I'm hopeful will increase my efficiency.

Nice. I've become a big fan of Goldfinch in my hoppy brews. Also can't live without Caramillet.

You can enter any of your GF grains into Brewers friend permenantly. Go to 'Inventory' then 'add inventory' then 'add custom fermentable'. Took me a while to realize that. Makes it so much easier to build and sort recipes.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Silly Yak:

I brew pale ales 90% of the time, so perhaps my experience is relevant for you. If you use Termamyl gelatinization rest and a "normal" enzyme as you have for your lower rest, you will not need near that much grain. With sorghum extract batches I found I had to have at least OG=1.060 for it not to be too thin, but with all grain I have found that I can go down to 1.050 to get the same mouthfeel. You could use 14 lb of grain (easier to manage) and with decent conversion (20 ppg to 23 ppg), you would get get OG between 1.050 and 1.060 for 5.5 gallon in the fermentor. If you use 19 lb of grain with those enzymes and get the conversion I expect you will get, you will either have a really high OG or you might want a second fermentation vessel available.

 

[Amadeo38]

Very cool - learn something new in brewing every day. Glad I subbed and glad people who actually knew what they’re talking about chimed in!

 

[Silly Yak]

Silly Yak:

I brew pale ales 90% of the time, so perhaps my experience is relevant for you. If you use Termamyl gelatinization rest and a "normal" enzyme as you have for your lower rest, you will not need near that much grain. With sorghum extract batches I found I had to have at least OG=1.060 for it not to be too thin, but with all grain I have found that I can go down to 1.050 to get the same mouthfeel. You could use 14 lb of grain (easier to manage) and with decent conversion (20 ppg to 23 ppg), you would get get OG between 1.050 and 1.060 for 5.5 gallon in the fermentor. If you use 19 lb of grain with those enzymes and get the conversion I expect you will get, you will either have a really high OG or you might want a second fermentation vessel available.

Thanks Chris. The beer I was trying to emulate is 8.2% but I think that cutting the grain down to 15 lbs would probably be wise as I work through my process.

 

[glutarded-chris]

@Amadeo38 It is always nice to have input from all angles! GF brewing is in its infancy and we are all learning. Any input, thoughts, ideas are welcome. It is a tough nut to crack, but I think we are getting really close. From your info it looks like you are currently in Gainesville Florida, I grew up in Gainesville. Good to see Florida brewers chiming in!

 

[Hopalong]

I don't have any idea about the types of starch in GF malt and I'm not sure what happens during conversion in GF malt because I know nothing about the malt, but it looks like an interesting beer style.

1) Infusion, Temp: 170 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 23.2 qt.
Is the rest considered a saccharification rest?

2) Temperature, Temp: 150 F, Time: 120 min, Amount: 5.3 qt.
Is the rest considered the conversion rest? If it's a conversion rest what is being converted and what is it being converted into?

What is the method used for testing when conversion occurs?​

What is the name of the sugar that yeast will use for fuel?

What should mash pH be during the low temp rest and the high temp rest.

Is secondary fermentation required?

In brewers grade malt the enzyme (Beta) converts simple sugar, glucose into complex sugars, maltose and maltotriose during a rest at 140F. After the conversion rest the mash is stepped up to the next temperature to complete saccharification in the 150F range up to about 162F.
Brewers grade malt contains two types of starch, amylose which is simple starch and amylopectin, complex starch. During saccharification Alpha releases from amylose sweet tasting, nonfermenting types of sugar and highly fermenting glucose. During dextrinization Alpha releases limit dextrin from amylopectin.
Does GF malt contain similar types of starch?
If GF malt contains amylopectin boiling some of the mash will cause the starch to enter into solution and maybe one of the enzymes will be capable of releasing A and B limit dextrin from the starch which are types of tasteless, nonfermenting sugar responsible for body and mouthfeel. Maybe, it's a pipe dream, but it works in regular malt.

Any help with my questions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Silly Yak]

Hey @Hopalong. I believe that the 170 rest is considered a gelatinization rest and the 150 rest is considered conversion/saccharification rest. Since millet does not produce enough enzymatic activity to convert without a great deal of effort most folks use enzyme additions to speed up the process. The enzymes that have produced the best results for members of this forum are Termamyl during gelatinization and SEBAmyl L during saccharification. Not sure about the rest of your questions as I'm fairly new to all grain GF brewing.