Maris Otter vs. 2-Row for American Barley Wine?

[ultravista]

I am planning on brewing an American style barley wine soon. The recipe calls for 90% (about 19#) of two row, and 2.5# of Crystal 120.

90% Base
10% Crystal 120

I've heard great things, but haven't used, Maris Otter before.

How would M.O. be in a barley wine like this? Would 90% of M.O. impart a different flavor than 90% 2-row?

 

[guldalian]

MO is definitely different than 2 row. A little more toasty, biscuity, and, well, English. Just use the 2 row. 1st off its an American style. 2nd, you need a lot of grain for a barleywine and MO is expensive. You could always add a bit (I'd say 1/2 lb or so) of something like biscuit or aromatic malt.

 

[Beernik]

MO is one of those malts where you know it when you taste it. I'm all for bending styles and I prefer the taste of MO. If you add MO, you are making it "less American". It will still be good, but you're losing your desired style.

I do agree with adding a little Biscuit, Victory, or Aromatic to add some bready, toasty flavors.

 

[ultravista]

bready and toasty flavor is what I'm interested. I loves me the malt.

 

[Zamial]

I just kegged up a barley wine that used Golden Promise as the base malt. In a blind taste test most people can not tell the difference between GP and MO.

The recipe was based loosely on Bigfoot by SN. The sample was tasty. It needs some age as it is still hot but I would recommend trying it.

GP and MO are the base malts used in scotch so expect some scotch like flavors in a big beer like this.

 

[tennesseean_87]

You can also get cheaper pale ale malts. Compare the color of Canada Malting's 2Row and Pale malts--1.9 vs. 3.3. The extra kilning adds those flavors. MO and GP are specific types of barley that have unique flavors, but the process of malting and kilning also creates a difference. Doing smash recipes or tow batches of a simply hopped recipe with 5% crystal and each base malt underneath will give you an idea of what the difference is.

 

[Trail]

MO is delicious and I endorse its unilateral use.

Actually, I've got my first two brews in a while that DON'T contain any Maris Otter going right now. It's been years... I really like the stuff.

 

[solbes]

Make it an English Barleywine and use the Marris Otter.

I am planning on doing the same for my 50th brew (sometime late fall).

 

[unionrdr]

You could add a couple pounds of marris otter for the flavors it gives. I've been using Crisp pale malt & marris otter in my pale ales/IPA's. After switching from a little chocolate malt to a lil more melanoiden malt,that bready quality seems a bit golden brown sort of flavored.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I prefer MO in my American Barleywine. I just use the hops to make it "more American". Last years NHC gold medal american barleywine was all MO.

 

[enricocoron]

Want to brew this tomorrow but don't have Marris Otter....would Rahr Pale Malt be an okay sub if supplemented with Victory and Aromatic, also doing about 6% Special B? Some will go into bourbon barrels....planning on about 1.1 OG mashed 154 and fermented with WLP005 and WLP001 with 50 lbs. Turbinado and 10 lbs. Molasses going in at High Krausen. Bittering to 55 IBUS and finishing with EKG and Hallertauer....really wish I had the MO but...

 

[Teromous]

A good substitute for MO is 85% 2-row, 10% munich, 5% cara-pils and adjust munich for more or less flavor. Honestly though if you're bombing the whole thing with a bourbon barrel, tubinado, and molasses I'm not sure how much of that flavor is going to make it through.

 

[solbes]

Enrico, I've used Rahr Pale for my last few brews (APA's, Brown Ales (x2), Irish Red, Winter Warmer). Midwest Supplies starting carrying 50 lb sacks of it for only $5 over their 2 row sack. I liked it over std 2-row in all of them.

For Barleywine, I would first go to MO (I used a combo of mostly MO grain + 6 lbs of MO LME as my BIAB was full). Turned out really nice. I do think the Rahr Pale + a little aromatic might get you some of that bready, malty characteristic. I'd skip the Victory and hold the nutty flavors. Truthfully you will use so much malt, it kind of turns out that way anyway.

Agree with poster above that the molasses, Turbinado, and bourbon barrel will mask a lot of the grain differences anyway. I think the bourbon barrel in particular will be fantastic. Holy cow, 50 lbs of Turbinado and 10 lbs of Molasses? Is this a really high volume brew you are doing (like 55 gallons or something?)

 

[Calichusetts]

I really enjoy pale ale malts...slightly darker and a bit of character. I'd use MO at around 10-20%

And yes, the other aspects of this beer will shine more. You want to consider the ABV and how long you plan to age these. After a few years, that base malt profile will start to shine again

Personally, with bourbon aged barleywines...I use the base malt profile more form color and whether I want it sweet or dry (FG potential as well)