Mangrove Jack's telling me what to do!

[mediant]

Wow, what a level this reached! Please, calm down, fellows...

I believes everyone has made some valid statements, but truth is somewhere in between.

First of all, lager yeast (Saccharomyces pastorianus) cells do not grow above 34C.
Second, Lallemand/Danstar are quite up-front in their specification, e.g. they mention that Diamond Lager is "Classified as a Saccharomyces pastorianus, a bottom fermenting yeast.", so there's no reason to doubt their statement that Nottingham is "Classified as a Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a top fermenting yeast".

http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-truth-about-nottingham-ale-yeast.html confirms that Nottingham may contain multi-strain of ale yeast only, not lager.

 

[Miraculix]

Wow, what a level this reached! Please, calm down, fellows...

I believes everyone has made some valid statements, but truth is somewhere in between.

First of all, lager yeast (Saccharomyces pastorianus) cells do not grow above 34C.
Second, Lallemand/Danstar are quite up-front in their specification, e.g. they mention that Diamond Lager is "Classified as a Saccharomyces pastorianus, a bottom fermenting yeast.", so there's no reason to doubt their statement that Nottingham is "Classified as a Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a top fermenting yeast".

http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-truth-about-nottingham-ale-yeast.html confirms that Nottingham may contain multi-strain of ale yeast only, not lager.

Your link is from 2014, so quite a bit out of date compared to the other sources that was talked about.

Also, as stated before, there is not the real and true group of "LAGER yeasts", the boundaries in between the different groups are much more blurry than we might think and therefore I would not believe an overly generalized statement like "lager yeast does not grow above 34c".

 

[mediant]

Your link is from 2014, so quite a bit out of date compared to the other sources that was talked about.

Like what?

Also, as stated before, there is not the real and true group of "LAGER yeasts", the boundaries in between the different groups are much more blurry than we might think and therefore I would not believe an overly generalized statement like "lager yeast does not grow above 34c".

Please open a book and you'll see that's not true.

 

[SanPancho]

yes, did get a little heated here. i'm gonna get back to work.

as i leave, im just gonna state once more as the challenge does not seem to be accepted- anyone who doesnt believe that a lager yeast can ferment clean at room temp should try it for themselves. plenty of research showing frohberg types have a wide range -- 3470, s189, mangrove cali, and a few others. this is not flat earth conspiracy BS or perpetual motion machine patents or vaccines-give-autism nonsense.

but -- if you wont try it, then please just shut up about it. endless debate is pointless. run the test, or agree to disagree.

as for the notty/lager mix debate, more genomic/dna data is coming out all the time. a clearer answer will probably arrive before long.

 

[mediant]

as i leave, im just gonna state once more as the challenge does not seem to be accepted- anyone who doesnt believe that a lager yeast can ferment clean at room temp should try it for themselves. plenty of research showing frohberg types have a wide range -- 3470, s189, mangrove cali, and a few others. this is not flat earth conspiracy BS or perpetual motion machine patents or vaccines-give-autism nonsense.

No doubt it can if handled properly...

Just for the reference - Frohberg produces way more ethyl acetate than Saaz at any temperature (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/yea.2960).

 

[SanPancho]

yes, thats in the paper i have referenced here a few times now. the difference you're describing is strain dependent, not temp.

and no complicated regimens are required either- good o2, good pitch rates, minimal nutrients(or none for dry), and a rising temp program. all well documented to reduce esters. havent even bothered with pressure as it doesnt seem necessary, but obviously thats another tool.

nothing requiring a professional setting/equipment or thats out of reach of a well equipped homebrewer.

 

[Miraculix]

Like what?

Please open a book and you'll see that's not true.
View attachment 609731

Just because something is written in a book, does not mean it is true. Yeast mutates, changes genome, imports genes from somewhere else, there is so much stuff going on that can change any given characteristic. Not claiming to have THE answer, just claiming there is pobably not THE answer.

 

[Vale71]

Also, as stated before, there is not the real and true group of "LAGER yeasts", the boundaries in between the different groups are much more blurry than we might think and therefore I would not believe an overly generalized statement like "lager yeast does not grow above 34c".

There you go again... Maybe you too didn't get the memo where it says the physical universe doesn't care what you do or don't believe in??
This is way worse than the worst LODO rant ever and has definitely been looking at utterly ridiculous in the rearview mirror for quite some time. I'm out of here, this thread has just become a big waste of time and all I got for my efforts is that my ignored members list has grown rather large in a very short time... Oh well...

 

[Miraculix]

There you go again... Maybe you too didn't get the memo where it says the physical universe doesn't care what you do or don't believe in??
This is way worse than the worst LODO rant ever and has definitely been looking at utterly ridiculous in the rearview mirror for quite some time. I'm out of here, this thread has just become a big waste of time and all I got for my efforts is that my ignored members list has grown rather large in a very short time... Oh well...

Thank you very much mate, I have not had such an opportunity to work on my patience since a long time and I almost lost it. This is worth a lot.

 

[SanPancho]

Interesting news. If cold preference is in the mitochondria, what does that say about yeasts with wide temp ranges like 34/70, kveik, saisons, etc.

https://news.wisc.edu/genes-behind-lager-yeasts-cold-and-sugar-loving-success-revealed/

 

[SanPancho]

I'm out of here, this thread has just become a big waste of time and all I got for my efforts is that my ignored members list has grown rather large in a very short time... Oh well...

Bit of irony here about the physical world and things that ACTUALLY happen in it vs theoretical world of books.
Seeing as how you ignore peoples real world experiences as a default, i wonder, is making the ignore list really necessary?

And If you haven’t already blocked everyone here, ill just leave you with this as a little bit of food for thought- what motive would anyone have for lying about warm lager?

 

[TNJake]

The truth is- if warm lager really existed it would fill the glasses of beer enthusiasts who lived on some "round" planet that doesn't sit at the center of the universe.

 

[Soulshine2]

I find California lagers (Anchor steam beer above all) simply disgusting. There is no way they can compare to a properly fermented lager.
If you used it at 32°C and found it to have a "clean" profile then I'm afraid the issue is with your taste buds. I wouldn't even take an ale yeast that high, except for some Belgian yeasts.

I love Anchor Steam beer. whats so disgusting about it??

 

[Soulshine2]

The truth is- if warm lager really existed it would fill the glasses of beer enthusiasts who lived on some "round" planet that doesn't sit at the center of the universe.

I'm over here like Norm Peterson shaking his empty beer mug in the air at Sam Malone.

 

[Vale71]

I love Anchor Steam beer. whats so disgusting about it??

The ester profile. To me, it's too much solvent-like, much like what you'd expect from a warm fermented lager. But that's of course just my personal taste so YMMV...

 

[TNJake]

I have had one of my beers turn out like this... A Shiner Bock clone with a terrible grain crush using old grain that lead to low OG which was then put into a poorly sanitized carboy. Worst beer I have ever made but still drinkable.
The other 5 times I have done ale-temp lager ferments have turned out great. I did lager in a keg afterwards for a month or several, but still primary ferm happened at about 70F.
I actually have another warm lager going right now. But Norm Peterson is going to have to wait another month at least.