Man I sure do hate the police...

[IrregularPulse]

Wow, your license plate has a lead foot.


Speeding is speeding, no way around that. Look at it this way, maybe the cameras are helping police do the whole "protect and serve" thing.

Tell me about it. That license plate got me in trouble several times while in college.
I don't consider those cameras trying to protect and serve. They are strictly for bringing in money.
They put one on the main street in our town. Well I happen to have to turn left at that light to go to my parents. No big deal there is a turn arrow....Oh wait, no, when they put the camera up, the green turn arrow misteriously disappeared with it on the busiest street in our town. You will easily sit through 2-3 lights before having a remote chance at turning left. I now turn 3 lights back and go through a crowded shopping center center with the rest of the town's traffic to avoid the light. Apparently heavy traffic through a shopping center is worth it to the city.It is on the ballot to vote to have the cameras removed in november.

 

[shecky]

Tell me about it. That license plate got me in trouble several times while in college.
I don't consider those cameras trying to protect and serve. They are strictly for bringing in money.

The cameras free up the police to do what they're supposed to do. You missed my meaning.

 

[dataz722]

The cameras free up the police to do what they're supposed to do. You missed my meaning.

But they don't. A police car sitting there will make people slow down but a camera just makes money.

 

[Zacharomyces]

It gives me a special feeling in my heart when cities have to refund hundreds of thousands of dollars to people because courts have found that the companies that put them up put shorter than legal yellow light times other dishonest means of making a buck.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Wow, your license plate has a lead foot.


Speeding is speeding, no way around that. Look at it this way, maybe the cameras are helping police do the whole "protect and serve" thing.

The cameras free up the police to do what they're supposed to do. You missed my meaning.

I just don't like the idea of cameras in general. I've been caught by one for running a red light...that's not a problem...I ran the light and it was possible I'd get a ticket.

But when a camera can constantly monitor anything...that's a little too Big Brother for me.

 

[dataz722]

I just don't like the idea of cameras in general. I've been caught by one for running a red light...that's not a problem...I ran the light and it was possible I'd get a ticket.

But when a camera can constantly monitor anything...that's a little too Big Brother for me.

And with speeding at what point do they give a ticket. If they really wanted to they could do it for .1 mph over the limit.

 

[shecky]

I just don't like the idea of cameras in general. I've been caught by one for running a red light...that's not a problem...I ran the light and it was possible I'd get a ticket.

But when a camera can constantly monitor anything...that's a little too Big Brother for me.

I don't like them, either. Way too Orwellian. I got caught by a camera in San Francisco a decade ago. It was creepy.

But there is a way to avoid them: obey the traffic laws.

 

[Yooper]

I suppose we are to share the roads, but when its 35mph and your running on it.........
its not like all you guys wear bright orange with reflective stuff. We do spend massive amounts of money on places you can run without cars.

just my two cents, hope i didnt offend ya Ed.

You know what? We spend massive amounts of money on places you can drive without runners/joggers/children/bicycles.

If you're driving on a public road, and you get pissed at people using the same road legally, but might slow you down by a couple of SECONDS, then I'm glad you don't live in my area.

 

[cubbies]

This thread was a disappointment. I am all for a little cop bashing. Cops for the most part are dicks and very few of them are interested in protecting and serving anything. However, you sped, you got caught, don't blame the cop for doing his job.

 

[shecky]

Somebody explain to me why every derelict I grew up with became a cop? All the guys who seemed destined for prison now carry guns. That scares me.

 

[FireNightFly]

Most states, like ours have a minimum speed limit. I dont see joggers getting tickets ... and yea, hehe, yooper those places we have set aside for cars are called "roads", hehe, i couldnt resist.

I was refering to parks. See you drive on the road to a "park" and jog there. haha

Minimum speed limits. I was just trying to make the comparison that both were illegal in my state, speed and going to slow.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I was refering to parks. See you drive on the road to a "park" and jog there. haha

I dont have any parks near where I live. I live on back roads, I run on back roads. Horses are ridden on back roads, and neither they nor I obey minimum speed limits. Even though the speed limit is 35 so I doubt there is one.

But saying what you said is like saying people in cities shouldn't jog on sidewalks because they are side"walks"

 

[shecky]

I dont have any parks near where I live. I live on back roads, I run on back roads. Horses are ridden on back roads, and neither they nor I obey minimum speed limits. Even though the speed limit is 35 so I doubt there is one.

But saying what you said is like saying people in cities should jog on sidewalks because they are side"walks"

There are no dedicated running trails near me, either. No sidewalks to speak of, either, unless I venture downtown. Plenty of breakdown lanes, though, where you'd think I'd be safe running. Most drivers view them as a second lane. I've had to dive into bushes more than a few times to avoid being hit and was once hit by an old man pulling out of a cemetery.

 

[kevinrmclean]

I got out of one a few years ago. Cop pulled me over for 72 in a 55. He was right. The ticket said I was doing 72 in a 55 at mile marker 4 with a posted limit of 55. Well I was actually speeding and pulled over at mile marker 7. The posted speed at mile marker 4 is 45. So I fought the ticket. I was not guilty of the written ticket. Cop got reprimanded by the judge. Judge told him sloppy police work and paper work wastes his time.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

There are no dedicated running trails near me, either. No sidewalks to speak of, either, unless I venture downtown. Plenty of breakdown lanes, though, where you'd think I'd be safe running. Most drivers view them as a second lane. I've had to dive into bushes more than a few times to avoid being hit and was once hit by an old man pulling out of a cemetery.

Yeah, I'd editted that, I meant shouldn't... I won't run on sidewalks because the nearest ones to me at home are about 7 miles away.... and I'd have to do about 40 laps on the existing ones "downtown" because our downtown consists of a tiny square of buildings. No breakdown lanes either. I actually really like running on dirt roads though, where I live, because I can hear the cars/trucks coming and there is generally no one else around so they yield the entire side of the road to me....

Wow this thread is wayyyy

 

[DeathBrewer]

I don't like them, either. Way too Orwellian. I got caught by a camera in San Francisco a decade ago. It was creepy.

But there is a way to avoid them: obey the traffic laws.

That's not avoiding the camera, that's avoiding the ticket.

 

[FireNightFly]

See this is why I said I dont exercise!! Its obviously too dangerous.

 

[Picobrew]

Where my homebrewer cops at??

 

[Zacharomyces]

I guess we should all just be glad we haven't been screwed over by the police as hard as this guy...
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/23/Family_Says_911_Tape_Caught_Cops_Planning_Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm?=protectandserve

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

It's simple really. Don't want to get the mail from your photo op?

Steal your neighbors plates.

 

[IrregularPulse]

But when a camera can constantly monitor anything...that's a little too Big Brother for me.

Agreed. I went online this morning to pay my ticket and was able to watch a 15 second clip of video that showed me flying through the intersection. I was unaware they recorded video non-stop.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Some do, some don't. The one I got caught on was "triggered"...I think it's timed by the light and sensor on the line. There are a LOT of continuous cameras, tho. Sure, it's helpful to find a bankrobber, but I like my privacy...or the idea of it

 

[MultumInParvo]

Yeah! I mean, come on... ONLY 37,261 people die last year in the US from auto accidents! I means, thats only like a full size Basketball stadium of people. Geez.

And I am sure that none of those people who even were driving were breaking the law. They were probably safely driving the speed limit... sure...

Its one thing to break the law, but its pretty funny when you complain about getting caught. Traffic laws are to keep the population safe. Even if you can safely drive 10 mph over, doesn't mean someone else can. Its a one size fits all that should be followed by all. It might be 'annoying' but I would rather be annoyed than kill myself (or worse, someone else).

For more statistics of fatal accidents click here: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Interesting, percentage of them being motorcyclists is only ~15%, much lower than the 25% that I'm always quoted.

Of course the number is, very clearly, on the rise... but still... not as many as they tout

 

[FlyingHorse]

Most states, like ours have a minimum speed limit. I dont see joggers getting tickets ...

Your state does not have a "minimum speed limit". The state or municipality may set a minimum speed limit for any given stretch of road, but it must be posted as such. No posted minimum = no minimum. And even then, it applies only to motor vehicles -- which is why the only place you generally see minimum speed limits is on roads where pedestrians, bicycles, etc aren't allowed, like interstate highways.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/PEOPLE/INJURY/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/ohspeed.pdf

I. No person shall operate a vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. '4511.22(A)
II. A person, driving at less than the normal speed of traffic, shall drive in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. '4511.25

Based upon engineering and traffic investigations, the State or local government may establish a minimum speed limit on a highway. However, no minimum speed limit shall be <35 MPH or >55 MPH. '4511.22(B)

 

[homebrewer_99]

Wow, your license plate has a lead foot.
Speeding is speeding, no way around that. Look at it this way, maybe the cameras are helping police do the whole "protect and serve" thing.

Speeding is speeding...unless you're a cop you mean? The only time I ever see a cop do the speed limit is to set up and temp a sorry SOB to pass him on the interstate...other than that they are speeding, which last time I checked, was for EVERYONE...no exceptions. It's from here we get the saying "we are a nation of laws, not men..." Same law for EVERYONE is the way I understand it was set up.

If you noticed they taken the "To Protect and to Serve" off of most police cars because that's not what they do..."To Extort and Raise Revenue" is their new motto...

It was proven in court a couple of years ago that a cops job is not to protect you...their job is to MAKE citizens criminals and fill up prisons. Don't you know the prison system in the US is a MULTI-BILLION collar industry?

As far as them being "Law Enforcement" that's another BS made up term. If the were enforcing the law it wouldn't be broken...they are "after the fact MFers" in my book.

Same goes with "Controlled Substance" If it were "controlled" I wouldn't have it...how about "we want it to be controlled?" is more like it.

Yes, George Carlin still lives in a lot of us...

 

[springer]

Tell me about it. That license plate got me in trouble several times while in college.
I don't consider those cameras trying to protect and serve. They are strictly for bringing in money.
They put one on the main street in our town. Well I happen to have to turn left at that light to go to my parents. No big deal there is a turn arrow....Oh wait, no, when they put the camera up, the green turn arrow misteriously disappeared with it on the busiest street in our town. You will easily sit through 2-3 lights before having a remote chance at turning left. I now turn 3 lights back and go through a crowded shopping center center with the rest of the town's traffic to avoid the light. Apparently heavy traffic through a shopping center is worth it to the city.It is on the ballot to vote to have the cameras removed in november.

You can get a ticket for using a private parking lot to avoid a traffic control device. just letting you know

Most states, like ours have a minimum speed limit. I dont see joggers getting tickets ... and yea, hehe, yooper those places we have set aside for cars are called "roads", hehe, i couldnt resist.

I was refering to parks. See you drive on the road to a "park" and jog there. haha

Minimum speed limits. I was just trying to make the comparison that both were illegal in my state, speed and going to slow.

unless its posted that pedestrians are not allowed like on a highway or overpass the pedestrian has right of way over any motor vehicle.And any minimum speed is for motor vehicles not peds or other non motorized forms of traffic


And yes I am a retired police officer... I wrote tickets, investigated burglaries was an accident investigator . locked up a few people and its always the people that get a ticket or get locked up that hate us. Not the person that is pulled from a car wreck or was being assaulted by their ex.

give it a break.You choose to disregard the traffic control device you take the chance of getting caught, if the ticket is improper fight it .I also hate cameras use in traffic enforcement it takes discretion away.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Speeding is speeding...unless you're a cop you mean? The only time I ever see a cop do the speed limit is to set up and temp a sorry SOB to pass him on the interstate...other than that they are speeding, which last time I checked, was for EVERYONE...no exceptions. It's from here we get the saying "we are a nation of laws, not men..." Same law for EVERYONE is the way I understand it was set up.

If you noticed they taken the "To Protect and to Serve" off of most police cars because that's not what they do..."To Extort and Raise Revenue" is their new motto...

It was proven in court a couple of years ago that a cops job is not to protect you...their job is to MAKE citizens criminals and fill up prisons. Don't you know the prison system in the US is a MULTI-BILLION collar industry?

As far as them being "Law Enforcement" that's another BS made up term. If the were enforcing the law it wouldn't be broken...they are "after the fact MFers" in my book.

Same goes with "Controlled Substance" If it were "controlled" I wouldn't have it...how about "we want it to be controlled?" is more like it.

Yes, George Carlin still lives in a lot of us...

I read a book that had an interesting philosophy on "crime." It stated that there is absolutely no way to outlaw anything. Laws can easily be broken. In fact, laws are in place because they WILL be broken.

The only proper way to establish a community is to have practices about what we do in certain situations. If someone steals, they are banished from the village. If someone rapes, you take them out of the equation. If someone screws your chickens, you add barbwire to your fence.

Kind of semantics, but interesting idea. Everyone has this idea that "if everyone just followed the law and were good people, the world would be perfect." Yeah, no...doesn't work that way. "LAW" means nothing. Law cannot be enforced...there is only reaction.

Semantics, I know...but it was interesting.

 

[Brew-Happy]

I read a book that had an interesting philosophy on "crime." It stated that there is absolutely no way to outlaw anything. Laws can easily be broken. In fact, laws are in place because they WILL be broken.

The only proper way to establish a community is to have practices about what we do in certain situations. If someone steals, they are banished from the village. If someone rapes, you take them out of the equation. If someone screws your chickens, you add barbwire to your fence.

Kind of semantics, but interesting idea. Everyone has this idea that "if everyone just followed the law and were good people, the world would be perfect." Yeah, no...doesn't work that way. "LAW" means nothing. Law cannot be enforced...there is only reaction.

Semantics, I know...but it was interesting.

True in that Laws can not prevent anything as they are intangible, but they do let those who chose to break the Law know the consequences.

We chose to follow the laws out of respect and hope that others are doing the same. Unfortunately, those that follow are sometimes the minority.

Deathbrewer, have you ever tried to ready Aristotle's Politics? If not I would recommend it. Especially, if you are having troubles sleeping

 

[Baja_Brewer]

give it a break.You choose to disregard the traffic control device you take the chance of getting caught, if the ticket is improper fight it .

But what about the cops that are cruising down the highway doing 80? They arent solving anyone's problems... and they're going too fast to generally see traffic violations like people being cut off, etc.

A VT officer recently got a ticket for doing 120 on the highway to "test his abilities", no lights, nothing. Another statie pulled him over, gave him a ticket, he served a VERY short suspension while the case was being investigated, and then was reinstated after he paid his $1k fine. If that had been me? Arrested on the spot, court cases, and probably more than a $1000 fine... I call bullsh!t

 

[DeathBrewer]

True in that Laws can not prevent anything as they are intangible, but they do let those who chose to break the Law know the consequences.

They would know the reaction in the other scenario, as well. Laws hold no more power than anything. We have an ingrained social structure and must live in whatever society we are in or there will be consequences. They can create government, laws, and beauracracy, but I don't think it causes any greater fear in criminals. It's intangible...a criminal has as much fear of retaliation from a victim's father as it does from incarceration...perhaps more.

We chose to follow the laws out of respect and hope that others are doing the same. Unfortunately, those that follow are sometimes the minority.

I don't necessarily think that it's unfortunate. Most people disagree with the laws and don't choose to obey them. Human nature.

Deathbrewer, have you ever tried to ready Aristotle's Politics? If not I would recommend it. Especially, if you are having troubles sleeping

I have become quite the insomniac since my recent existential exploration phase. I'll check it out. Looks like they have the whole thing online...

 

[springer]

It was proven in court a couple of years ago that a cops job is not to protect you...their job is to MAKE citizens criminals and fill up prisons. Don't you know the prison system in the US is a MULTI-BILLION collar industry?

link to this court case. people make themselves criminals by their actions.

As far as them being "Law Enforcement" that's another BS made up term. If the were enforcing the law it wouldn't be broken...they are "after the fact MFers" in my book.
So you want the cop to act prior to the crime? If no law is broken how do you react to the crime beforehand since no crime has been committed .



Yes, George Carlin still lives in a lot of us...

While I don't agree with some of the laws like pot for one should be legal. There are plenty of laws that need to be in place. Man isn't very good at being nice all the time history has proven that

 

[springer]

But what about the cops that are cruising down the highway doing 80? They arent solving anyone's problems... and they're going too fast to generally see traffic violations like people being cut off, etc.

A VT officer recently got a ticket for doing 120 on the highway to "test his abilities", no lights, nothing. Another statie pulled him over, gave him a ticket, he served a VERY short suspension while the case was being investigated, and then was reinstated after he paid his $1k fine. If that had been me? Arrested on the spot, court cases, and probably more than a $1000 fine... I call bullsh!t

I never said cops were above the law. I taught my kids by doing the right thing not the do as I say not as I do . I expect people to lead by actions and a cop speeding unless he is on the way to a call should be obeying the traffic laws and is always accountable for his actions even if he is on police business. There have been a several cases of cops being jailed for being negligent while on a chase or responding to a call .

 

[DeathBrewer]

While I don't agree with some of the laws like pot for one should be legal. There are plenty of laws that need to be in place. Man isn't very good at being nice all the time history has proven that

So...laws make people be nice?

EDIT: Looks like I'm trying to get this moved to the debate forums

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I never said cops were above the law. I taught my kids by doing the right thing not the do as I say not as I do . I expect people to lead by actions and a cop speeding unless he is on the way to a call should be obeying the traffic laws and is always accountable for his actions even if he is on police business. There have been a several cases of cops being jailed for being negligent while on a chase or responding to a call .

It sure seems that way though.
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20090509/NEWS04/905090359/1004/NEWS03

 

[springer]

but really if the OP hadn't been pulled twice in 5 months do you think he would have made this thread and we wouldn't be talking about it. So ya the cops suck doing their job.


Also people have stated they should be out looking for real criminals . In my department we had what was called the flying squad. Their main job was traffic enforcement yes if they saw something they would act on it . But their main focus was traffic . And they didn't have a quota and nether did I. If your average was say 15 movers a month and you wrote 3 then they would call you on it. We kept logs of each call each stop and had to call from call box's at certain times.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Yeah, I've heard the "quota" thing is bull****. Obviously if your'e not getting tickets than they think you're not doing your job, but do they really start issuing more tickets in time of financial crisis? I dunno...

 

[springer]

It sure seems that way though.
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20090509/NEWS04/905090359/1004/NEWS03

so he paid a fine that was the max for the speed not the usual 638 . In the Dillon case he was most likely arrested to make sure he would appear in court and the article says it was later dropped and he paid less than the trooper. So where is this officer above the law ?

Here he wouldn't have lost his license either. They use a points system and you go over your revoked .

 

[springer]

Yeah, I've heard the "quota" thing is bull****. Obviously if your'e not getting tickets than they think you're not doing your job, but do they really start issuing more tickets in time of financial crisis? I dunno...

we were never made to go out and write tickets but then again I worked in very affluent area. I think the average tax on a home there was 15-20k in the 80's were talking multi million dollar homes

 

[jpc]

Yeah! I mean, come on... ONLY 37,261 people die last year in the US from auto accidents! I means, thats only like a full size Basketball stadium of people. Geez.

And I am sure that none of those people who even were driving were breaking the law. They were probably safely driving the speed limit... sure...

Its one thing to break the law, but its pretty funny when you complain about getting caught. Traffic laws are to keep the population safe. Even if you can safely drive 10 mph over, doesn't mean someone else can. Its a one size fits all that should be followed by all. It might be 'annoying' but I would rather be annoyed than kill myself (or worse, someone else).

For more statistics of fatal accidents click here: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

I realize that I'm coming late to the party, but this is nonsense.

I don't care how many people died in any given year, since that is meaningless. This number should be normalized to the amount of driving done (as in deaths per million vehicle miles or some such). "Number of deaths" in and of themselves tell nothing.

Then there are the statistics. I'm not as up-to-date on it as I used to be, but something like 40% are "alcohol related" (which doesn't mean what most people think it does). "Speed" also tends to get put down as a factor, but this tends to get over-used; for instance, it is used as a catch-all for "disobeying the number on the sign, even by 1 mph" or for doing 30 mph in a 55 mph zone in a blinding snowstorm (HUGE difference there). It's fairly often cited for drunks who crash as well (but the DWI was the real cause). They'll even blame speed for crashes when a car doing the speed limit doesn't look and changes lanes into the path of a car going faster, when clearly the lane-changer is at fault. The worst part is that they use these nonsense numbers to justify lowering limits (to define more people as scofflaws)...

Speed laws are not there to "keep people safe". Perhaps there are some that are, but other roads are severely underposted. Speed limits should be set by engineering criteria, not politicians in the state and federal government.

Time to move this thread? Perhaps...