Man, I love Apfelwein

[dave8274]

If it hasn't changed in 11 days, then it's probably not going to.

The sulfur smell is a nutrient deficiency thing, usually in combination with somewhat warm fermentation temps. Some batches of juice have better nutrient contents, plus it's much less of a problem fermenting cool. So the lack of that smell is probably more due to the temperature, and really that's a good thing. Your apfelwein will probably be fantastic, lower temps also mean fewer fusel alcohols.

You know, I really think you have pectin haze. Pectin is a water soluble carbohydrate, so it very well could be contributing to the gravity reading without actually being fermentable. About 3/4 of the commercial juice on the market is cleared by treating the juice with pectin enzyme. That last quarter is cleared by running the juice through a centrifuge to remove the particulates. That process removed the particulates and clears the juice, but it leave the actual pectin intact. So, if you ferment it, you get particulates stuck in it again. You will also get gravity readings that are a little high as some of what you are measuring is non-fermentable carbohydrate.

If it was mine and I wanted it dry, I'd mix a little pectin enzyme in and sprinkle a packet of champagne on top. Be careful if you decide to do that, you could end up with an apfelwein geyser from the dissolved co2...That reminds me, it wouldn't hurt to degass it. It's much more common to do that in mead, but reducing the dissolved co2 might get things going again too.

I used Tree-top just as the OP said, but on the label it did show a something like 31g of Carbs and 28g of sugar, so maybe that's the issue?

I'll try these suggestions. I actually have a drill mounted degassing wand because we just made a wine kit.

Edit: I just went ahead and degassed it. I got quite a geyser, but I think I got most of the CO2 out. I'll go grab some pectic enzyme and yeast when the LHBS is open later, any idea how much enzyme I should use, and should I wait a few days to do this now that I have degassed??

Also, will the champagne yeast change the taste of the final product?

 

[Kdog22]

Champagne yeast will probably change the flavor, compared to the original recipe. But this is suppose to finish dry anyways..

 

[dave8274]

Champagne yeast will probably change the flavor, compared to the original recipe. But this is suppose to finish dry anyways..

Hmm, any reason I shouldn't just use a fresh packet of Montrachet then?

 

[gregblatz]

Hello all,
I've made this many times but I have never used fruit until recently.

I simply went with 2.5gal apple juice with 1 can of Oregon Fruit blackberries.
Montrachet
OG - 1046

My Question:
Can I leave the fruit in until bottling or should I remove the fruit once the fermentation settles down.

Anyone do something similar? How were your results?

 

[keahunter]

Anyone use kmeta before bottling so that it keeps? how long will it keep without it?

 

[dave8274]

That reminds me, it wouldn't hurt to degass it. It's much more common to do that in mead, but reducing the dissolved co2 might get things going again too.

So my degassing this morning completely stirred up the lees, and now I have a cloudy carboy that resembles orange juice. Hopefully this will settle out and not hurt anything?

 

[Tulpa]

Well, I just bottled my first batch yesterday after 4 weeks. Sampled a gallon of it with my friend last night and didn't have any hangover to speak of. Drank it with a small splash of sierra mist in each glass. I just ordered more montrachet yeast to make some more. Think I'll add 3-3.5 pounds of sugar to this next batch.

 

[Leadgolem]

I used Tree-top just as the OP said, but on the label it did show a something like 31g of Carbs and 28g of sugar, so maybe that's the issue?

I'll try these suggestions. I actually have a drill mounted degassing wand because we just made a wine kit.

Edit: I just went ahead and degassed it. I got quite a geyser, but I think I got most of the CO2 out. I'll go grab some pectic enzyme and yeast when the LHBS is open later, any idea how much enzyme I should use, and should I wait a few days to do this now that I have degassed??

Also, will the champagne yeast change the taste of the final product?

No need to wait before adding the pectin enzyme. Just follow the directions on it for juice.

Champagne yeast will probably change the flavor, compared to the original recipe. But this is suppose to finish dry anyways..

True, but this batch is probably down to it's last 0.012 of gravity. So it's not going to actually ferment enough of the total batch to throw things off much. In addition, both strains are commonly used in white wine making. I have found that they aren't all that different in flavor profiles even when used in exclusion.

Hmm, any reason I shouldn't just use a fresh packet of Montrachet then?

Only that if I'm wrong about why your batch stalled the montrachet may stall out again. The champagne yeast probably won't.

So my degassing this morning completely stirred up the lees, and now I have a cloudy carboy that resembles orange juice. Hopefully this will settle out and not hurt anything?

It won't hurt anything, you'll just have to wait for it to settle again. If your in a hurry for some reason you could pick up some bentonite powder or another fining agent while you're at the LHBS.

 

[dave8274]

Cool, thanks for the help. No hurry, was just worried that the dormant yeast getting mixed in could cause a problem.

The pectic enzyme mixed right into the carboy that had been degassed with no problems . I made a bit of a mistake and went ahead and added to another couple of batches that I had in the basement that I didn't degas, and made a bit of a mess didn't realize adding it to something with C02 in suspension made a volcano.

I bought a couple packets of champagne yeast and am going to try it out to see if fermentation starts up again.

 

[Leadgolem]

Cool, thanks for the help. No hurry, was just worried that the dormant yeast getting mixed in could cause a problem.

The pectic enzyme mixed right into the carboy that had been degassed with no problems . I made a bit of a mistake and went ahead and added to another couple of batches that I had in the basement that I didn't degas, and made a bit of a mess didn't realize adding it to something with C02 in suspension made a volcano.

I bought a couple packets of champagne yeast and am going to try it out to see if fermentation starts up again.

Yeah, it's all the dissolved co2. Any powder you add to a batch that's close to saturation with co2 is going to cause it to foam like crazy. You are adding an enormous number of nucleation points. It's sort of the same principle of serving beer or sparkling wine in a glass that's super clean to keep it from going flat to fast.

 

[dave8274]

For future reference, since I now own a lb. of pectic enzyme, is it ok to add it before fermentation next time I make apfelwein if I don't know if the juice has pectin in it? In other words, will it cause any issues if there is no pectin for it to react with?

 

[Leadgolem]

For future reference, since I now own a lb. of pectic enzyme, is it ok to add it before fermentation next time I make apfelwein if I don't know if the juice has pectin in it? In other words, will it cause any issues if there is no pectin for it to react with?

Nope. The only thing it can do is break pectin into sugar. I add it to pretty much every batch I do with fruit or fruit juice in it, right along with the yeast. It's cheap insurance, and I bought the 1lb package too.

 

[dave8274]

Good to know. Still, very surprised to have an issue with Tree Top juice, seems like tons of people here have used it with no problems.

 

[Grimster]

Think I'll add 3-3.5 pounds of sugar to this next batch.

My old lady loves this stuff when it's kegged, carbed, and sweetened. So I make my secret panty dropper. 8 pounds of sugar to a 5 gallon batch. Ends up around 16% (using Lavlin 1118) and thanks to the sweetening the old lady gets a glass from the keezer and drinks it down and before you know it, yeah, panty dropper is an apt name

 

[chask31]

My friend has had this apfelwein (made from cider) sitting around 'aging' for over a year. His airlock has gone dry so he is worried about infection. Does the film on the top and trub look like an infection or just regular yeast activity?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

My friend has had this apfelwein (made from cider) sitting around 'aging' for over a year. His airlock has gone dry so he is worried about infection. Does the film on the top and trub look like an infection or just regular yeast activity?

There is/was way too much headspace in that carboy. It looks infected to me. The wine should have little to no stuff floating on the surface, and the trub looks funny.

Your friend might have some Grade A apple cider vinegar though. Give it a taste and find out.

 

[perogi]

I "brewed" this last year (2012-09-29) with unpasteurized apple cider from a farm down the road from me and brown sugar - finally tasted it tonight.

Wow. Just wow - amazing.

I will be making 20 gallons for next year!

 

[gcdowd]

I "brewed" this last year (2012-09-29) with unpasteurized apple cider from a farm down the road from me and brown sugar - finally tasted it tonight.

Wow. Just wow - amazing.

I will be making 20 gallons for next year!

Wow, congrats on being able to wait a year. Well done

 

[MaxStout]

Did my first foray into Apfelwein, following Ed Wort's original recipe. I used Mott's juice. Primary for 2-1/2 months, then bottled with priming sugar for 3.0 volumes. After one month in the bottle, it tastes nice, a bit of a sharp edge that will probably smooth out as the months go by. Good carbonation. It certainly is dry, but it goes down way too easy.

I need to discipline myself to not drink it up too fast. I'd like to have plenty on hand for guests over Thanksgiving and Xmas. I'd better get another batch going to keep the pipeline full....

 

[gcdowd]

Did my first foray into Apfelwein, following Ed Wort's original recipe. I used Mott's juice. Primary for 2-1/2 months, then bottled with priming sugar for 3.0 volumes. After one month in the bottle, it tastes nice, a bit of a sharp edge that will probably smooth out as the months go by. Good carbonation. It certainly is dry, but it goes down way too easy.

I need to discipline myself to not drink it up too fast. I'd like to have plenty on hand for guests over Thanksgiving and Xmas. I'd better get another batch going to keep the pipeline full....

Smooth as silk. I can drink it all night until I realize that I'm drunk. Damn, now I gotta make more

 

[blacksmith]

I doubt you really need nutrient or energizer. Four lbs is not that much. A lot of wine uses ten pounds pf sugar. 1118 will plow a deep forough. Mike

ec-1118 is a monster! I find adding the sugar in two steps instead of bombing it all at once gives a more desirable result.

 

[distributistdad]

I have a couple of questions and I apologize, but the search tool on HBT isn't the best thing in the world to work with:

1.) I have a batch fermenting in my basement now, which I put together on 8.16.13 (30+ days ago). I have not been taking gravity readings on it, but i'm seeing signs of active fermentation still at this point (bubbles running up the sides of the liquid, bubbles in airlock, slight movement in the carboy). Is this to be expected? I used RedStar yeast and the fermentation has been steady at 64 degrees.

2.) Second question - has anyone boiled some of the juice and used table sugar instead of dextrose? Experiences? I'm just thinking that this would save a few bucks and if it won't make any difference, I might give that a try for my next batch.

Thanks in advance!

 

[adiochiro3]

Drinking some homemade apple cider I pressed myself last year. It is quite dry and alcohol-hot. I back-sweetened with a splash of apple juice which cut the heat just enough.

the 3 gallons I have going now sure does have a sulfur stink going on! SWMBO is not very amused!

 

[Leadgolem]

I have a couple of questions and I apologize, but the search tool on HBT isn't the best thing in the world to work with:

1.) I have a batch fermenting in my basement now, which I put together on 8.16.13 (30+ days ago). I have not been taking gravity readings on it, but i'm seeing signs of active fermentation still at this point (bubbles running up the sides of the liquid, bubbles in airlock, slight movement in the carboy). Is this to be expected? I used RedStar yeast and the fermentation has been steady at 64 degrees.

2.) Second question - has anyone boiled some of the juice and used table sugar instead of dextrose? Experiences? I'm just thinking that this would save a few bucks and if it won't make any difference, I might give that a try for my next batch.

Thanks in advance!

1. That is a bit unusual. Typically you're done after about 3 weeks. Though I have had some wines, especially high gravity ones, take up to 8 weeks.

2. I do that all the time. What you get is a straight alcohol increase from the sugar. You just have to be a little careful not to overdue it. The higher the alcohol content, the longer you are going to want to age it.

 

[gazollett]

Just started 2 gallon of elderberry and apple never thought elderberries would smell so good hope it tastes as good!

 

[Toppers]

Whoa, I just made a a batch of this with WLP300 and 4 gallons turned out very good in less than 4 weeks. I know it's not true to the recipe but the wlp finished fermenting very fast, about 5 days. Bottled it at 10 days, and just tried a sample after two weeks of bottle carbing. Smooth, carbed and crisp already. Drank a 16 ounce so fast it was like water. Lovely stuff.

No idea how it's going to age but this reminds of me of four month old apfelwein sample following the montrachet recipe. Just throwing it out there for folks who don't want to wait 6 months, this WLP300 rocks it out. I will have to do a side-by-side of aged bottles and see if montrachet is worth the wait compared to WLP.

 

[Texastrooper]

Walked through Costco yesterday and they sell powdered sugar in huge large bags. Much cheaper than the corn sugar from my local hbs. Could I use that one instead?

And I still love it. On my 4th or 5th batch now and another already fermenting again. With me and my wife plus always lots of guests drinking it I think I have to start setting up a batch every 3 - 4 weeks... :cross:

 

[bleme]

Walked through Costco yesterday and they sell powdered sugar in huge large bags. Much cheaper than the corn sugar from my local hbs. Could I use that one instead?

You could, but powdered sugar is 97% table sugar and 3% corn starch. I would just use table sugar.

 

[Grimster]

With me and my wife plus always lots of guests drinking it I think I have to start setting up a batch every 3 - 4 weeks... :cross:

Getting to be almost every week. People just suck this stuff down so fast.

 

[jstampler]

I bottled 10 days ago and started my next batch with 2 gallons of cranberry and 4 gallons apple juice right on top of the lees. I'm bottling my Pinot noir kit tomorrow and I plan on cleaning out the carboy and starting another batch of plain apfelwein right away. The 25 bottles I had 10 days ago are already down to 16! I'm trying to hide a few bottled from myself so I can see how awesome it is after 6-8 months.

 

[gcdowd]

I bottled 10 days ago and started my next batch with 2 gallons of cranberry and 4 gallons apple juice right on top of the lees. I'm bottling my Pinot noir kit tomorrow and I plan on cleaning out the carboy and starting another batch of plain apfelwein right away. The 25 bottles I had 10 days ago are already down to 16! I'm trying to hide a few bottled from myself so I can see how awesome it is after 6-8 months.

It's too easy to drink. The key is making a crap ton of it

 

[Tulpa]

I bottled mine a couple days ago and drank a gallon with a buddy that night. Mostly mixed with a splash of sierra mist per glass until we got the taste for it. The flavor was really light. I used 2 gallons of Tree Top and then the cheapest apple juice they had for the other 3 gallons which might have been a mistake. I saw Tree Top brand 3 apple blend that might lend a stronger flavor. Or I could try juicing some granny smith apples and see if that helps.

 

[Leadgolem]

I bottled mine a couple days ago and drank a gallon with a buddy that night. Mostly mixed with a splash of sierra mist per glass until we got the taste for it. The flavor was really light. I used 2 gallons of Tree Top and then the cheapest apple juice they had for the other 3 gallons which might have been a mistake. I saw Tree Top brand 3 apple blend that might lend a stronger flavor. Or I could try juicing some granny smith apples and see if that helps.

Core and quarter about 2lbs of granny smith or any tart apple per pound. Add them to the mix after most if not all of your fermentation is complete. It's best to use a fermenting bucket so you can get them back out later.

They contribute to the flavor more if you freeze them before adding them. I prefer to remove them after about two weeks, then add pectin enzyme to take care of what came out of the apples. You don't have to, but the cider will be cloudy if you don't.

That's what I do for more apple flavor. You could also back sweeten with apple juice concentrate if you want a sweet cider.

 

[TexasWine]

Core and quarter about 2lbs of granny smith or any tart apple per pound. Add them to the mix after most if not all of your fermentation is complete. It's best to use a fermenting bucket so you can get them back out later.

They contribute to the flavor more if you freeze them before adding them. I prefer to remove them after about two weeks, then add pectin enzyme to take care of what came out of the apples. You don't have to, but the cider will be cloudy if you don't.

That's what I do for more apple flavor. You could also back sweeten with apple juice concentrate if you want a sweet cider.

Just for clarity, sounds like you put them in a mesh bag so you can retrieve them after the two week period, correct? Also, do you smash/crush them before adding or just put the quarters in unadulterated except for freezing?

 

[Leadgolem]

Just for clarity, sounds like you put them in a mesh bag so you can retrieve them after the two week period, correct? Also, do you smash/crush them before adding or just put the quarters in unadulterated except for freezing?

No smashing. I sometimes lightly steam them, or drop them in a bucket with some lemon juice and water before they go in the brew. That keeps them from turning brown.

A mesh bag should work well, but I usually just use my spider to fish them out. They float. Usually I give them two or three weeks before removing them.

Here's what they look like when you fish them out. Those have not been pealed, and they were Fuji apples. You can see that all of the pigment in the skins has leached out. So has most of the apple flavor. I guess you could make apple sauce or something with them if you wanted, but it would be pretty flavorless.

 

[OilfieldHippie]

I made a batch 6ish weeks ago following Edwort's recipe exactly. After tasting a sample yesterday, SWMBO determined we were going to immediately make another batch. We switched it up and tried Mangrove Jack's M02 cider yeast. I heard from the guy at the LHBS that it adds a little ester complexity. Has anyone else tried this Yeast? I'm excited to taste the difference between the two batches.

 

[Wulvaine]

I'm a brand-new infant homebrewer; just ordered a bunch of basic equipment and ingredients (yeast/nutrients/sugars, Better Bottles to be used as fermenters/airlocks/sanitizers, siphon/bottling stuff and bottles) and thought apfelwein seemed like a great place to start out since it's so simple and doesn't require any kettles the size of my grandmother's generous underclothes, or boiling, or anything I could easily screw up in general.

I tend to do pretty extensive research when I develop an interest in something (recently discovered snooker, found myself caring about a sport for the first time in my geeky, D&D-playing life, and promptly looked up as many guides and rules clarifications as possible so I'd actually understand what I was watching!), so I'm fairly familiar with the basic concepts and terminology of brewing by now. I think for my first batch, I'll color inside the lines and use Edwort's recipe to the letter, but I've been thinking that for my second batch I might try a higher-alcohol version that's a little more wine-like, maybe around 12.5% ABV. Without trawling through this entire gargantuan thread (since I'm sure I'm not the first one who's thought about boosting the octane a bit!) or trying to do any gin-drunk math (even if I was sober, I'm a writer, so I'm very comfortable with words, but I neither understand nor trust numbers), does anyone here know how much dextrose I'd have to add to the basic recipe to end up with an OG of about 1.09?

And for those of you more knowledgeable and experienced, is there anything extra I'd need to do to facilitate that kind of fermentation? Assuming I understand everything correctly, Montrachet should be able to handle sugars up to around 1.098, and it should still ferment dry by the end. With this yeast, if I start with a 1.09~ OG, will I still end up in the .9xx range with an ABV of about 12.5%, or have I gravely misunderstood the things I've studied, haha?

 

[Leadgolem]

I'm a brand-new infant homebrewer; just ordered a bunch of basic equipment and ingredients (yeast/nutrients/sugars, Better Bottles to be used as fermenters/airlocks/sanitizers, siphon/bottling stuff and bottles) and thought apfelwein seemed like a great place to start out since it's so simple and doesn't require any kettles the size of my grandmother's generous underclothes, or boiling, or anything I could easily screw up in general.

I tend to do pretty extensive research when I develop an interest in something (recently discovered snooker, found myself caring about a sport for the first time in my geeky, D&D-playing life, and promptly looked up as many guides and rules clarifications as possible so I'd actually understand what I was watching!), so I'm fairly familiar with the basic concepts and terminology of brewing by now. I think for my first batch, I'll color inside the lines and use Edwort's recipe to the letter, but I've been thinking that for my second batch I might try a higher-alcohol version that's a little more wine-like, maybe around 12.5% ABV. Without trawling through this entire gargantuan thread (since I'm sure I'm not the first one who's thought about boosting the octane a bit!) or trying to do any gin-drunk math (even if I was sober, I'm a writer, so I'm very comfortable with words, but I neither understand nor trust numbers), does anyone here know how much dextrose I'd have to add to the basic recipe to end up with an OG of about 1.09?

And for those of you more knowledgeable and experienced, is there anything extra I'd need to do to facilitate that kind of fermentation? Assuming I understand everything correctly, Montrachet should be able to handle sugars up to around 1.098, and it should still ferment dry by the end. With this yeast, if I start with a 1.09~ OG, will I still end up in the .9xx range with an ABV of about 12.5%, or have I gravely misunderstood the things I've studied, haha?

Dextrose is 42.05 gravity points per pound. So, 1 pound of it dissolved into one gallon of water will increase the gravity by 0.04205 For the sake of sanity I'm calling it 42 points per lb. Commercial apple juice has a typical gravity of 1.050. So if you want to increase the gravity by 0.040 you would need just shy of 1 lb per gallon or about 5 lbs for your batch if you are making 5 gallons.

There are two things that will throw off that calculation. First, gravity points don't compensate for the increase in volume from the sugar addition. 1lb of dextrose in 1 gallon of water will have a volume greater then one gallon. Second, commercial apple juice varies in gravity somewhat. 5 lbs will probably get you where you want to be, but you will want to take measurements and add the last 1/4 of the sugar in relatively small additions. Make sure to completely dissolve it between additions so you can take accurate gravity readings.

 

[dave8274]

If it hasn't changed in 11 days, then it's probably not going to.

The sulfur smell is a nutrient deficiency thing, usually in combination with somewhat warm fermentation temps. Some batches of juice have better nutrient contents, plus it's much less of a problem fermenting cool. So the lack of that smell is probably more due to the temperature, and really that's a good thing. Your apfelwein will probably be fantastic, lower temps also mean fewer fusel alcohols.

You know, I really think you have pectin haze. Pectin is a water soluble carbohydrate, so it very well could be contributing to the gravity reading without actually being fermentable. About 3/4 of the commercial juice on the market is cleared by treating the juice with pectin enzyme. That last quarter is cleared by running the juice through a centrifuge to remove the particulates. That process removed the particulates and clears the juice, but it leave the actual pectin intact. So, if you ferment it, you get particulates stuck in it again. You will also get gravity readings that are a little high as some of what you are measuring is non-fermentable carbohydrate.

If it was mine and I wanted it dry, I'd mix a little pectin enzyme in and sprinkle a packet of champagne on top. Be careful if you decide to do that, you could end up with an apfelwein geyser from the dissolved co2...That reminds me, it wouldn't hurt to degass it. It's much more common to do that in mead, but reducing the dissolved co2 might get things going again too.

Well, it's been 6 days now since I degassed it and added champagne yeast and pectic enzyme. It's still cloudy from stirring up the lees. Hopefully it will settle out eventually, I would have expected it to by now but so far, no luck. I have another couple batches in the basement, so I added pectic enzyme to those as well, and champagne yeast to 1 of them to see if anything happens, so far I think that one looks a little clearer than the one I didn't repitch.

 

[J187]

So, my apfelwein wwas ready for tasting yesterday. I took a sample and tasted it. Having sampled mine, I wonder if mine came out like it should have. I only say this, because while it was delicious! I couldn't help but it find it strikingly similar to say, a white wine like chardonnay, but quite dry with a faint hint of apple. I see a ton of "cider" comparisons, and I get that it's technically a cider, but do you guys find that uncarbonated, it tastes like white wine a lot? I am going to carbonate a few, to try it, but I really like it uncarbonated and chilled.