Malt muncher 3, new, seems defective

[Dland]

I bought a "MaltMuncher 3 grain mill to replace barely crusher that has worn rollers. Assembled it yesterday and went to set gap to mill grain today. Unfortunately, the roller with the drive shaft on it was machined out of round. There is about a .020 inch or .5mm difference in gap as the drive roller spins around in relation to the fixed gap upper idler roller.

Pretty sure that is not normal or acceptable tolerances, and will try to get replacement part before spending any time gapping it, let alone grinding grain.

Not a fan this imported stuff, due to these sorts of quality control issues, but there seems to be no other viable options for mills at this point. I got it from Moorbeer, and they have been good at making things right in the past, so I'll be calling them when they are open.

Just wanted to put this out there since this is from the newest batch (they were out of stock until a couple of weeks ago). You might want to check the rollers were machined on center before you get too far in assembly or trying to gap.

 

[augiedoggy]

.020 worth of wobble is not good. I would be returning it as well.

 

[Dland]

The customer service rep asked me to send him a video, which I did. I tried to post it here, but I do not know how to compress it enough for the forum to accept.

The Moorebeer rep got the video and asked if it roller was out of round in relation to third roller, which indicates to me he might not understand the situation, anyway, I answered him & have not heard back. My hopes of using new mill on next batch are fading.

I can still use the worn out Barely Crusher if I stay away from larger grained malts or want to adjust it during milling or crush, adjust and re crush(which I have done and it is sort of a PITA). Still have the Corona too, but that gives up about 15% efficiency, and makes a bit of a mess.

 

[cubalz]

I wouldn't want another one as a replacement, I am betting this is not a singular production mistake. Spend the cash and get a Monster Mill 3

 

[augiedoggy]

I wouldn't want another one as a replacement, I am betting this is not a singular production mistake. Spend the cash and get a Monster Mill 3

well its the only one reported out here in how many years? I dont know why we would assume they are all bad when there are many happy owners here...

Should we assume the same of the monster mill because of this experience of the same issue?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...any-opinions-on-this-one.126212/#post-1409204

Mistakes/ defect sometimes happen regardless of who makes it and were its made... and yeah maybe for 1/3 the price vs mm3 version with bearings they might be slightly more likely to get past quality control who knows.. I know I read another thread a few months back where the knurling on a MM mill was incomplete and defective out of the box and MM made right by the owner... Point is stuff like this happens with everything. Also it only makes sense that companies that have a smaller profit margin also have to be a little more careful before handing out refunds or exchanges.

 

[cubalz]

well its the only one reported out here in how many years? I dont know why we would assume they are all bad when there are many happy owners here...

Should we assume the same of the monster mill because of this experience of the same issue?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...any-opinions-on-this-one.126212/#post-1409204

Mistakes/ defect sometimes happen regardless of who makes it and were its made... and yeah maybe for 1/3 the price vs mm3 version with bearings they might be slightly more likely to get past quality control who knows.. I know I read another thread a few months back where the knurling on a MM mill was incomplete and defective out of the box and MM made right by the owner... Point is stuff like this happens with everything. Also it only makes sense that companies that have a smaller profit margin also have to be a little more careful before handing out refunds or exchanges.

The reason I said that was I have been a Sr Engineer in a production company for over 20 years and it has been my experience in our own products or raw materials being shipped to us that when one part is bad it is because of a process or tooling change (or wear) that will affect a whole production run.

 

[augiedoggy]

The reason I said that was I have been a Sr Engineer in a production company for over 20 years and it has been my experience in our own products or raw materials being shipped to us that when one part is bad it is because of a process or tooling change (or wear) that will affect a whole production run.

Understood, As a field engineer myself I have seen what you are saying occur more than once as well and would not argue that couldnt be the case.

In this case of this mill roller spinning out of round though I have seen it reported multiple times on mills from multiple manufacturers including barley crusher, monster mills as well as mills from the manufacturer we are discussing here like the cereal killer. I would have to assume since it didnt seem to effect a whole production run then that theres no reason it would be different here. Thats why I stated what I did in response. (also because I do own both the cereal killer as well as this mill only sold under the kegco brand name and had no such issue myself with either) I even use one in a commercial brewery which you may have heard me mention in other threads. We have a new mm3 basic version with bushings my business partner bought on hand for backup that we've yet to need but its only been just over a year.

My last statement about companies being cautious about returns was meant as a respond to Dlands comments about the hoops they are asking him to just through which while they can be frustrating, can also mean a company is not marking up the prices as much on that product and they cannot be so easy to offer replacements without losing money.

 

[HopSing]

The Moorebeer rep got the video and asked if it roller was out of round in relation to third roller, which indicates to me he might not understand the situation, anyway, I answered him & have not heard back. My hopes of using new mill on next batch are fading.

Any word back from MoreBeer? I'm wondering if they're checking their stock to see if this is a one off issue or a production run issue. I have this mill in my MoreBeer cart, but it's on hold until I hear how they respond and how the replacement mill looks from a tolerance perspective.

Just curious, do you think the roller itself is oblong or the shaft is not centered?

Either way looks like I'll be dusting off the digital caliper if/when I order one.

~HopSing.

 

[Dland]

Any word back from MoreBeer? I'm wondering if they're checking their stock to see if this is a one off issue or a production run issue. I have this mill in my MoreBeer cart, but it's on hold until I hear how they respond and how the replacement mill looks from a tolerance perspective.

Just curious, do you think the roller itself is oblong or the shaft is not centered?

Either way looks like I'll be dusting off the digital caliper if/when I order one.

~HopSing.

They are "looking into it" and say they will bet back to me soon.

The roller is round and the shaft is straight, but shaft is machined off center from roller.

You won't need a digital caliper to detect this defect, it is easily observed by eye.

 

[day_trippr]

I bet the shaft is pressed into a bore through the roller. Otherwise, trying to figure how one would mill a roller and end up with an off-center stub shaft makes my head hurt...

Cheers!

 

[HopSing]

I'm a bit surprised (disappointed really) that MoreBeer did not tell you to ship that one back ASAP and get you a replacement already. It's clearly defective.

Please keep us in the loop.

~HopSing.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is just my theory but I think part of the problem is when it comes to mills like this, theres a lot of false defect claims made by people who claim issues like the rollers are binding when in those cases its lack of understanding how the eccentric cams work and they are binding them non the less more beer probably has a guy assigned totroubleshoot over the phone with customers and weed out the real claims from the false ones. I fought with this issue myself when I first got my CK I know Ive seen many a thread started by people who may have the roller cams 180 degrees out of sync for example. 3 roller mill are even more confusing than 2 roller to set up. So much so ive seen people give up and sell them and go to 2 roller mills. and of course the directions are non existent for many of them so sometimes people assemble thing incorrectly like hoppers and ive even seen mills mounted upside down.


I bet though, that if 20 people reading this right now went to there mills regardless of brand and spun them while holding a flashlight shining through the gap, that a number of them would see some slight wobble/ variation in gap as the roller spun that they never noticed or ignored and that amount wouldnt/hasnt effect performance. Afterall I used a corona mill I was shocked at how much play there was and how poor and uneven the tolerances are but many use them with no problems.
I dont know personally if a half a mm is enough to have a real world effect on the mills performance since from memory I dont know how large that is and I dont know what the tolerances normally are from the factory.. Maybe this is one of the drawbacks of paying under 200 bucks for what the competition charges much more for for as CubalZ hinted at.. I do get a slight wobble on my cereal killer but it wasnt enough to matter in my case. Personally I had based my choice on budget as well as reading complaints about bushings needing to be removed and cleaned of grain dust to get rollers to spin and of course worn rollers from the comparable option I was considering at the time.

 

[Dland]

Sorry to add to the head hurt, but roller is one solid piece. I might speculate stock was not centered in chuck somehow, or the machine tool was badly worn. While I have run some old manual feed machine tools, I don't know much about modern or even semi modern production practices, so I'm only guessing.

I bet the shaft is pressed into a bore through the roller. Otherwise, trying to figure how one would mill a roller and end up with an off-center stub shaft makes my head hurt...

Cheers!

 

[Dland]

Well, Morebeer has emailed me a shipping label for old mill and sent out a new mill. The rep said he'd check to see rollers on that are good, I don't know if he will, but suspect the faulty roller was probably a machining anomaly, I'll know in a few days and report back.

 

[Dland]

I received the replacement unit from Morebeer, and am happy to report the rollers on new mill are good, with no visibly noticeable wobble in any of them.

 

[ferm.adventures]

Interesting.. to find this... I'm hitting an issue with the one I just got Itoo. I can't set it with a consistent gap. I'm following the monster mill 3 set-up instructions and trying to set the gap to .045" to start. If I get the roller in a position to set it to .045" and move the bottom roller some, I can't get the feeler gauge back in. Furthermore, if I set the mill to either of the marked settings of .032", the mill rollers will strike in spots when trying to roll the drive roller. Seems defective. Will have to contact more beer tomorrow.