Malt/honey combinations?

[Pith]

Hi, guys.

I've never really liked beer, but I love mead, so I thought I might try and ease my way into malted beverages by trying a slightly malted mead; not quite enough malt to be called a braggot. I was wondering what kinds of honey and malt have worked well together in your experience. I have fairly wide access to good quality Eucalyptus honeys. I have little experience with malts, but I have a reasonable understanding of honey chemistry. I am more interested in wheat malts to begin with (banana/clove esters would be nice with honey, right?), but would appreciate advice on barley etc. malts as well.

I guess what it boils down to is:
- Is there a reason why Eucalyptus honey would not go well with wheat malt?
- Which honeys available in Australia (Eucalptus or not) go best?

Replies will be much appreciated and repaid with the results if you are accessible by greater Sydney public transport.

Thanks,
Caleb

 

[Bugeaud]

Eucalyptus honey? Interesting. Here Canada we wide access to lavender honey, orange blossom honey, and wild flower honey, but I've never even heard of Eucalyptus honey. Would you care to describe the flavour in comparison to other honey's?

 

[Pith]

Monofloral honey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Ctrl+F "Eucalyptus")

It's hard to describe difference in taste since it's what I grew up with in Australia, but the general consensus I've found through Google is that it is a bold-flavour with a slight medicinal taste. The second paragraph of this webpage gives a fairly detailed description, mentioning herbal, menthol, butterscotch and less-sweetness than other honeys.

People who get eucalypt honeys from places that don't grow eucalpyts (ie most places other than Australia and California) complain of a strong, unpleasant medicinal taste in the mead, but from what I've heard this is often because there are additives to make it taste more Australian/eucalyptic which really stand out after fermentation, so it shouldn't be overwhelming. It could also be because they're not Australian so the difference in taste is offensive to them, where it might be normal and expected for an Australian.

I think a malt/hop with a decidedly NON-medicinal character might complement it rather than accentuate it would be appropriate, just in case those people are right.

According to Ken Schramm's "Compleat Meadmaker" book, eucalyptus honey is of mid colour (6 on a scale of 12) and rather high in dextrose, which according to LHBS just adds more alcohol to must and nothing else. Also, eucalyptus honey has a rather low amount of higher sugars, which I would guess means it would more easily ferment out to dryness since there are less sweeteners the yeast can't process, though that's not necessarily what I want to happen. None of the other numbers stood out so I haven't mentioned them, but may be able to provide info if requested.

Also, "wildflower" in Australia is usually a blend of Eucalptus flowers, since 98 percent of our forest cover is eucalypt. I've also seen orange blossom and macadamia honeys several times and am interested in suggestions regarding malt pairings.

 

[Bugeaud]

Well if I can get hold of some eucalyptus honey I will totally try some. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, I haven't really had much experience with malts or beer. I would try to describe what wildflower Honey tastes like here, but obviously the forest enviroment is very different there. The best way I can describe it is like walking through a slightly humid forest full of blooming flowers midday in spring. That smell is how the wildflower honey here tastes. But since I have no idea what the Australian forest smells like, I can't really say what I just described put any kind of similar idea in your mind.

 

[Pith]

Well if I can get hold of some eucalyptus honey I will totally try some. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, I haven't really had much experience with malts or beer. I would try to describe what wildflower Honey tastes like here, but obviously the forest enviroment is very different there. The best way I can describe it is like walking through a slightly humid forest full of blooming flowers midday in spring. That smell is how the wildflower honey here tastes. But since I have no idea what the Australian forest smells like, I can't really say what I just described put any kind of similar idea in your mind.

No worries, I'm glad I could teach you something new.
You'll help out on the flipside if you can, I'm sure.

 

[fatbloke]

Well I understand that there are a number of different eucalyptus types, but I don't know which type it is, that makes a good eating honey, but a potentially hideous tasting mead. The stuff they ship over is genetically called eucalyptus honey and the stuff I tried, wasn't good.

That said, I've also seen posts here and at gotmead, that mention some marvellous sounding Aus honey that do, apparently, make excellent means.

You'd probably have to do a bit more digging for type and availability.....

 

[ashplub]

I would think honey malt might work well.

 

[biochemedic]

I am more interested in wheat malts to begin with (banana/clove esters would be nice with honey, right?), but would appreciate advice on barley etc. malts as well.

The esters generally found in wheat beers, wit's, etc come from the yeast strains used in these styles, not so much from the wheat itself...perhaps you should look into the various strains of yeast available to you and which ones would

(a - give you the ester profile you want, and
(b - have enough of an alcohol tolerance to make a mead

I recently made a mead based on the idea of a belgian wit or saison style using wildflower honey, coriander seed, bitter orange peel, and the Wyeast French Saison strain. Quite nice, and illustrates quite well that some ale yeasts can definitely make a great mead!

 

[Pith]

...makes a good eating honey, but a potentially hideous tasting mead.

I've made meads from eucalyptus mixed blossom and they were lovely, so I guess it must be a matter of being an Australian who's only ever had eucalyptus based honeys. I can't say I've used eucalyptus varietals, though, so I'll have to ask an Aussie mazer about that one.

I would think honey malt might work well.

Yep, that's why it's become a thing that makes its way into publications!

The esters generally found in wheat beers, wit's, etc come from the yeast strains used in these styles, not so much from the wheat itself...perhaps you should look into the various strains of yeast available to you and which ones would

(a - give you the ester profile you want, and
(b - have enough of an alcohol tolerance to make a mead

I recently made a mead based on the idea of a belgian wit or saison style using wildflower honey, coriander seed, bitter orange peel, and the Wyeast French Saison strain. Quite nice, and illustrates quite well that some ale yeasts can definitely make a great mead!

Cool, thanks for the info. I eventually did work out that it's a certain Weizen yeast that gives the esters/phenols, but again, I'm more interested in easing my way into malt-based beverages than specifically getting banana/clove flavours, which was just a little enticement riding on the back of the aims here. At the present time, as well, banana/clove is more enticing than orange/coriander, but it does sound nice and I would like to try it one day!

I suppose at this point in time, I'm feeling as though I'll just use some good quality mixed-blossom and some wheat malt, maybe a touch of pilsener malt, for a Honey Hefeweizen.

 

[fatbloke]

I've made meads from eucalyptus mixed blossom and they were lovely, so I guess it must be a matter of being an Australian who's only ever had eucalyptus based honeys. I can't say I've used eucalyptus varietals, though, so I'll have to ask an Aussie mazer about that one.

I tried it because it was cheap at the time. The honey tasted good, but the finished batch had quite a pronounced eucalyptus taste and to my mind disappointing.

A little digging found others who'd experienced this, and others who rated the honey highly.

So I suspect it might be to do with the source of the honey.

Maybe I'll give it another try in the future.

{edit}Ok, so I found the thread over at Gotmead, that I was thinking of. Whether it's of any help or not I don't know, but the OP in the thread seems to located around Melbourne and lists the honeys that seem to be available (other than eucalyptus of course). I haven't found any source for any of them, so have no idea what they're like, but it might be worth a try if they're relatively easy to find........{/edit}

 

[Pith]

thread over at Gotmead

The majority of the honeys he listed are varieties of eucalyptus honeys. I have no problem deciding whether to use eucalyptus honey in my meads/braggot; this thread was intended to find people who have had fantastic malt/honey combinations so that I might choose a honey based on that advice, if I am able to find it. Otherwise I'll just pick a nice quality local honey that I find.