MalFet's bottle washer for lazy homebrewers

[MalFet]

I know pvc has some temperature/chemical leaching. Hot water should use cpvc to prevent it, not sure about the chemical leaching form the cleaners. I think a copper pipe set up would be safer, neat idea.

Good point! The ones I built actually are CPVC, but I didn't indicate that in the description. Changing it now...

 

[seabass07]

Thanks for the inspiration!

 

[Jbear]

Awesome creation MalFet. Thanks for sharing! I mainly keg due to the hassle of cleaning bottles, but really do want to bottle more and this could certainly make it easier.

I've actually recently been looking at keg/carboy washer designs but now I think I'm inspired to build something that integrates a bottle washer such as well as a keg washer in 1 unit.

 

[msexton]

This is awesome! Need to build one now. Flip it upside down after sanitization and now you have a 30 bottle filler! (only 3/4 joking)

 

[MalFet]

I've had a few people PM me to ask about the connector assembly. I think I made it sound more complicated than it really is, since all it really does is join a bit of straight CPVC to a garden hose attachment. This whole piece then goes into and out of the hole in the side of the milk crate, making it very easy to switch between a multiple washers.

Anyway, a couple of pictures should explain better than I can:

 

[MalFet]

Awesome creation MalFet. Thanks for sharing! I mainly keg due to the hassle of cleaning bottles, but really do want to bottle more and this could certainly make it easier.

I've actually recently been looking at keg/carboy washer designs but now I think I'm inspired to build something that integrates a bottle washer such as well as a keg washer in 1 unit.

I ordered a CIP spray ball from brewershardware a few days ago with the intention of making a keg/carboy washer that hooks up to the same pump. I'll post pictures if I get it working.

This is awesome! Need to build one now. Flip it upside down after sanitization and now you have a 30 bottle filler! (only 3/4 joking)

Tried it; doesn't work.

The first bottles fill up too fast and the last bottles fill up not at all.

 

[KCBrewer]

If it were something I'd buy, I'd want one that can handle anything from a 12 oz bottles to 750ml wine bottles or a mix. That would be a design challenge, I think. Have to think on it.

This might help. http://homebrew.thefastrack.ca/

 

[wyowolf]

Ok, I built this, used a Harbor Freight Submersible pump and get barely any flow??? the pump is good for 600GPH which should be more then enough...

not sure what is wrong, i see no way to regulate the pump itself.

anyone use of these??

 

[MalFet]

Ok, I built this, used a Harbor Freight Submersible pump and get barely any flow??? the pump is good for 600GPH which should be more then enough...

not sure what is wrong, i see no way to regulate the pump itself.

anyone use of these??

Hmm...two things:

First, 600GPH is not nearly enough. The pump I've got listed here in the build specs pushes three times that. GPH ratings assume no head pressure at all, and this build relies on generating quite a bit of head pressure to work.

Second, is your pump this one: (http://www.harborfreight.com/620-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68393.html)? If so, most fountain pumps use magnetic impellers, which don't deal well with resistance on the line. You really want to stick with the kind of mechanical impeller found in most utility pumps.

Hope this helps! As the video shows, this thing does indeed work.

 

[wyowolf]

Yes that is the pump. Your right, not enough flow or pressure ;-(

Will return it and get the correct one ;-).

Sorry not Implying the design is bad.
Just an FYI to all who may be looking... Use the correct pump!!

 

[wyowolf]

Ok, returned that pump and got the one on the link at the top of the page. it works much better, but i still only get maybe 12 inches or so of flow, not nearly what your getting. I am going to try to increase the hose to 3/4 and see if that helps.

everything else seems the same, not sure why mine is less then yours...

still , i can see how much of a time saver this is going to be.

Do you have any issues with pumping PBW or anything through the pump?

 

[MalFet]

Ok, returned that pump and got the one on the link at the top of the page. it works much better, but i still only get maybe 12 inches or so of flow, not nearly what your getting. I am going to try to increase the hose to 3/4 and see if that helps.

everything else seems the same, not sure why mine is less then yours...

still , i can see how much of a time saver this is going to be.

Do you have any issues with pumping PBW or anything through the pump?

Glad to hear it's working! Twelve inches should be plenty of flow. The mechanism here isn't blasting gunk off with physical pressure, but rather eroding it with a heavy flow of water. With enough time, I've found this is as or more effective than the jet washers.

In any case, there are a number of things that could effect the height of the stream coming out of the nozzles. If your copper diameter is slightly larger, for example, you'll have equivalent flow but less height. Alternately, if you're getting constriction from your fittings anywhere along the way, this could be restricting your net flow.

I've had no problem with PBW, though I get a fair bit of foaming with StarSan. It's never been a problem for me, but if you start overflowing your sink you could use SaniClean or another non-foaming sanitizer. I can't say for certain that the chemicals don't shorten the life of the pump. I've used mine thirty times or so now and it's still going strong. I also take comfort in the fact that these pumps are designed to pump filthy water out of flooded basements.

Keep us posted on how it's working for you!

 

[starman]

On the to-do list.

For the all copper version people might investigate hot water radiant flooring copper manifolds. They'll be more cost than cpvc but potentially cheaper than fabrication from a bunch of t fittings.

I use brass garden hose quick disconnects on my other keg & cornie washers. Seems like a great opportunity to add cost to a simple build.

 

[Spinrathen]

Interesting.

 

[rekoob]

This is freaking awesome! My main reason for going to kegs was cleaning bottles. I still have TONS of bottles that seem to want something in them and this would greatly help. Great job!

 

[fork]

This looks awesome and I think I will build one, but is there any concern about the pump seal leaking and getting grease from the motor bearing in the water?

 

[MalFet]

This looks awesome and I think I will build one, but is there any concern about the pump seal leaking and getting grease from the motor bearing in the water?

That's a good question. I ran a lot of water through the pump before I used it, and now I don't notice any oil sheens on the top of my reservoir after recirculating water. Anything else I should be looking for?

 

[latium]

If I'd seen this a couple years ago, I might have kept bottling and not started putting together a keezer. Looks like there's a Harbor Freight pump that might work: http://www.harborfreight.com/14-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-68486.html It's only rated to 1200 GPH, though. I'm also thinking if I build this, I'll adapt it to a square milk crate that can be had locally, rather than shelling out 2/3 again as much for shipping as the rectangular crate costs.

 

[Concho]

Just for reference, a standard square crate will fit 25 bottles, plan on building one this weekend.

 

[phuff7129]

subscribed. Nice build. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Spinrathen]

I'm thinking about doing this in pex or copper to avoid the jb weld. Pex would be easier but I'm thinking it may be hard or expensive to find 1/2 1/2 1/4 t's. We'll see when I get around to it.

 

[micahshaw]

Well, I gave it a shot and followed your directions as best I could. Unfortunately no one around here seems to carry the CPVC 1/2" cross piece. (Really?!?!). I also used 1.5" long pieces to join the cross pieces. which gave me nice even spacing in all directions. I also learned that 1/2" CPVC and 1/2" PVC are not even remotely the same size. Is one measured inside and one outside?

Anyhow, I need to get back to the store to pick up the right pieces to actually hook this up to my pump. Right now it is friction fit with a 3/4" PVC fitting going around the outside of the 1/2" CPVC T fitting. You will notice that due to no cross piece, I had to move were the assembly attaches to the water, which may the the source of one of my problems.

I have this pump:http://www.harborfreight.com/35-horsepower-dirty-water-pump-with-float-switch-69298.html, which is slightly more powerful than the one you used. However, as you can see in the pictures below, the results are underwhelming. One of the tubes has litterally nothing coming out, and the one next to it is not enough to get to the top of a bottle. I haven't used any JB Weld, or glued any joints yet, but they do not appear to be leaking to any significant degree.

Anyone have any thoughts on why this performance is so poor?

 

[MalFet]

Anyone have any thoughts on why this performance is so poor?

Hmm...I can't tell from your pictures, but it looks like your pipe chassis is significantly elevated above your water source and pump. Is that the case? How much vertical travel is there between the output of your pump and the base of the washer?

 

[micahshaw]

How much vertical travel is there between the output of your pump and the base of the washer?

It is resting on the top of a corny keg next to the bucket that the pump is in the bottom of. So, that much. (about 2.5 ft?) Once I get the proper coupling for a hose to hook it up, I will have it lowered about a foot, but I don't think it is going to make a huge difference. I know there are alot of ways to measure power on these pumps, and the one you have lists head of 25ft, where mine is only 19.7. But it seams like the real world difference between our setups is way more than just your pump maybe being a bit more powerful.

Also, just as a test, I put a bunch of bottles on mine to see if having bottles on all the other tubes created a little back pressure. It did not. Results were the same. And many of the other bottles were not being rinse properly because the stream was too weak to really hit the bottom of the bottle and spread out like it should.

-micah

 

[MalFet]

It is resting on the top of a corny keg next to the bucket that the pump is in the bottom of. So, that much. (about 2.5 ft?) Once I get the proper coupling for a hose to hook it up, I will have it lowered about a foot, but I don't think it is going to make a huge difference. I know there are alot of ways to measure power on these pumps, and the one you have lists head of 25ft, where mine is only 19.7. But it seams like the real world difference between our setups is way more than just your pump maybe being a bit more powerful.

I really suspect that's your problem. Your pump puts out 20% less pressure than mine at baseline, and then you've got an extra 2 1/2 feet of head. One of the comments in your pump's reviews specifically mentions a complete loss of pressure at only 3 feet of vertical push.

Beyond that, the only thing I can think of would be inline constriction somewhere. There's really not a lot to this device otherwise. If your power is low, it is almost certainly a problem with the pump.

What makes you say that you think there's something more to it than that?

 

[micahshaw]

What makes you say that you think there's something more to it than that?

This pump works great with my carboy washer, I thought it might actually launch my better bottle is had so much power (but the weight of the water trying to get out keeps it in place). But that is running through 3/4" PVC. The ID of this 1/2" CPVC may just be so much extra pressure that it ain't gonna work. Which is unfortunate since I bought that pump about 6 months ago, and can't return it now.

But I am tempted to go ahead and get that clearly superior (based on reviews) pump that you linked to. I wonder what the used sump pump market is around me looks like...

-micah

 

[MalFet]

This pump works great with my carboy washer, I thought it might actually launch my better bottle is had so much power (but the weight of the water trying to get out keeps it in place). But that is running through 3/4" PVC. The ID of this 1/2" CPVC may just be so much extra pressure that it ain't gonna work. Which is unfortunate since I bought that pump about 6 months ago, and can't return it now.

But I am tempted to go ahead and get that clearly superior (based on reviews) pump that you linked to. I wonder what the used sump pump market is around me looks like...

-micah

Yeah, unfortunately I think you'll just need a new pump. More than the diameter of the CPVC, the actual copper tubing itself is (I suspect) causing the lion's share of resistance. For this application, head pressure is probably a more important measurement than total flow. Thanks for posting, and let us know what happens! I'll edit the original post to include a warning about minimum head pressure.

 

[fork]

Do you guys think this would work with a march or chugger pump?

 

[MalFet]

Do you guys think this would work with a march or chugger pump?

Definitely not. Magnetic impeller pumps lose pressure very quickly on restriction.

 

[fork]

Definitely not. Magnetic impeller pumps lose pressure very quickly on restriction.

Yes that is true, but the cross sectional are of all those little copper tubes is actually larger that a single 1/2 inch pipe that those pumps are normally used with. Though all of the turns and transitions in the manifold create losses. Do you think that this manifold would be more of a restriction than those pumps normally work with?