Making vinegar from beer

[Owly055]

A few years ago, about 60 years ago, your vinegar jug was filled directly from the barrel at the grocery store. Always contained the "mother". I have been looking for unpasteurized vinegar, haven't found any yet. I would like to make some malt vinegar with a couple bottles of dry stout.

Braggs is available in most health food stores. It will not have a mother in the bottle, but it will have sediment and an active culture.

H.W.

 

[Curtis2010]

Braggs is available in most health food stores. It will not have a mother in the bottle, but it will have sediment and an active culture.

H.W.

You can also order many varieties of mother/cultures online. Just type "vinegar mother" in on Amazon and loads of options will pop up.

I had trouble finding unfiltered vinegar in my area so just ordered a culture complete with a bug chunk of mother.

 

[unionrdr]

I may just try ordering that mother when I get the equipment to make it.

 

[Curtis2010]

Braggs is available in most health food stores. It will not have a mother in the bottle, but it will have sediment and an active culture.

H.W.

You can also order many varieties of mother/cultures online. Just type "vinegar mother" in on Amazon and loads of options will pop up.

I had trouble finding unfiltered vinegar in my area so just ordered a culture complete with a bug chunk of mother.

 

[danz]

Did some research into this and a brewery can produce beer and then produce non beverage vinegar with no additional license just needs to provisional approved by the TTB.

If we wanted to brew a beer to be converted into vinegar for sale we are out of luck. You need a brewing license/bond as well pay tax on the beer.

Now if you are not producing the beer and purchasing pre made beer then check your local laws but you may qualify under a homemade food law and produce it there at home.

Damn TTB.

http://www.ttb.gov/faqs/genalcohol.shtml

See G7

 

[BGBC]

I'm going to try this anyway, but figured I'd ask the question here anyway...

If the vinegar is unpasteurized, but doesn't have a visible 'mother', do you think it could still be used as a mother?

Back story: I got some of my grandfather's vinegar over Thanksgiving. It's been in the barrel at least since he died almost a decade ago and I just found out there's still at least 20+ gallons in there. I have a small bottle now, but the stuff is crystal clear. Everything must have dropped out long ago. He used to make some vinegar purposefully, but I think this was wine that was still in the barrel when he passed.

 

[Curtis2010]

I'm going to try this anyway, but figured I'd ask the question here anyway...

If the vinegar is unpasteurized, but doesn't have a visible 'mother', do you think it could still be used as a mother?

Back story: I got some of my grandfather's vinegar over Thanksgiving. It's been in the barrel at least since he died almost a decade ago and I just found out there's still at least 20+ gallons in there. I have a small bottle now, but the stuff is crystal clear. Everything must have dropped out long ago. He used to make some vinegar purposefully, but I think this was wine that was still in the barrel when he passed.

That could be a cool tribute...heirloom vinegar.

Does it taste like vinegar or wine now?

 

[BGBC]

That could be a cool tribute...heirloom vinegar.

Does it taste like vinegar or wine now?

Vinegar. Stronger than any store bought I've had. My family will usually water it down 1:1 before using it like any store bought vinegar.

 

[Owly055]

I'm going to try this anyway, but figured I'd ask the question here anyway...

If the vinegar is unpasteurized, but doesn't have a visible 'mother', do you think it could still be used as a mother?

Back story: I got some of my grandfather's vinegar over Thanksgiving. It's been in the barrel at least since he died almost a decade ago and I just found out there's still at least 20+ gallons in there. I have a small bottle now, but the stuff is crystal clear. Everything must have dropped out long ago. He used to make some vinegar purposefully, but I think this was wine that was still in the barrel when he passed.

My starter vinegar was unpasteurized but had no mother.......... It's not going to develop a mother after it's fully soured, and they don't bottle it until it's fully soured, so don't expect a mother in a bottle....... "a mother in a bottle"??? sounds strange doesn't it....... What you need is the bacteria.......nothing more. The so called "mother" really is just as byproduct known a pellicle which is made of microcellulose. The "mother" doesn't make the vinegar.... the bacteria does. This is a misunderstanding you find with both vinegar and kombucha. It's really not a "mother", it's a waste product that someone named "mother of vinegar". It should be called "excretia of acetobacter".


H.W.

 

[Curtis2010]

Vinegar. Stronger than any store bought I've had. My family will usually water it down 1:1 before using it like any store bought vinegar.

Then there is likely acetobacteria in there. Draw some sediment and vinegar up from the bottom and give it a try on some beer to make malt vinegar.

 

[BGBC]

Then there is likely acetobacteria in there. Draw some sediment and vinegar up from the bottom and give it a try on some beer to make malt vinegar.

I don't have access to the barrel currently. I picked up a small bottle my dad pulled off. It's clear with no sediment. Going to give it a go anyway and will report back.

 

[z-bob]

If you have access to an apple tree or a fruiting crabapple tree, I'm pretty sure the brown rot that develops on a few of the apple -- and a lot of the drops -- is acetobacter. (I know this is a month too late for most people) You can smell the acetic acid in an apple with brown rot. Cut one up and use it to establish a "mother".

I've also read that acetobacter is one of the bugs in Chinese yeast balls, available in many Asian grocery stores. Not sure if that's true or not.

 

[shelly_belly]

Acetobacter is everywhere. If you expose your beer, wine or mead to the air, you will make vinegar.

 

[Curtis2010]

Acetobacter is everywhere. If you expose your beer, wine or mead to the air, you will make vinegar.

True, but of course exposing it to other stuff too.

I just finished reading "Wild Fermemtation". The author does all natural/open ferms of all sorts stuff.

 

[botigol]

After seeing this thread yesterday, I found a bottle of Bragg's at the grocery store and started two small batches last night. I poured two bottles of northern English mild and two bottles of special bitter into separate one quart bottles and added two tablespoons of the apple cider vinegar to each. They're sitting in the cabinet over my refrigerator, covered with muslin hop socks. Since I'm the only one in the house that can reach that high, they should sit undisturbed in the dark for a bit...until of course I get impatient and bother them myself.

 

[Curtis2010]

I did something similar. Added a purchased culture to some Guiness in a glass jar. Covered and left to sit for a bit over a month till we return.

Be interesting to see what I have in a couple of weeks.

 

[Owly055]

vinegar is something that requires patience........ cover and forget for 4 or 5 months. There what's called the "generator process" that's fairly simple and involves using a container with a perforated bottom filled with a non-compacting material such as wood shavings. The liquid is circulated from the bottom and sprinkled over the non compacting material, and air circulates up from the bottom as the liquid trickles downward. This system can produce vinegar in 5-7 days, and would be quite easy to build. My inclination would be to use toasted oak planer shavings, a fountain pump, and a small blower with a HEPA filter for air supply, and perhaps cycle the air. I'm envisioning a small charred oak barrel set on end with a perforated false bottom. A port into the side of the barrel for air, a drain to return liquid to the tank below..... a container with a port to feed the pump... perhaps an ordinary stainless steel brew kettle. A slowly rotating sparging arm in the top of the barrel...... etc. The process would be continuous, pulling a percentage of the vinegar out when the PH reached the desired level, and adding more beer....... or whatever. Wood shavings might be replaced periodically.


H.W.

 

[TheZymurgist]

double post...

 

[TheZymurgist]

I'm seeing a potential mini-solera here. It seems like you could decant a starter into a jug and add the vinegar mother, then every time you make a starter for a batch of beer, add some to the jug. Then pull off a portion when the jug starts to get full, and set that aside to finish aging. That way you have a continual mother colony and you're constantly feeding it when you make a batch of beer.

Anyone see problems with this?

 

[BGBC]

vinegar is something that requires patience........ cover and forget for 4 or 5 months.

Based on the generator process you described, if you just have it in a bottle or carboy, would it be better to just forget it, or to aerate it every once in a while?

 

[z-bob]

Based on the generator process you described, if you just have it in a bottle or carboy, would it be better to just forget it, or to aerate it every once in a while?

There's not much surface area in a bottle or carboy. How about using an aquarium pump and airstone? I don't know if it would be better to run it continuously, or on a timer a few times per day.

 

[Owly055]

There's not much surface area in a bottle or carboy. How about using an aquarium pump and airstone? I don't know if it would be better to run it continuously, or on a timer a few times per day.

No....... the idea is that the wood shavings or whatever, are a surface where the bacteria are active and extremely well aerated. The shavings are not saturated, but kept wet with the liquid trickling down over them. The idea being to maintain an optimal growth environment for acetobacter, which is an aerated but wet surface apparently.

The generator process is quite old......... the first "fast" vinegar process, and is apparently still used for craft vinegar making. It is really very different from an aerated liquid. This isn't like a mash with grain submerged in liquid.


H.W.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm starting to get a vision of what you're talking about. I wanna try the Cooper's english bitter for this project. It makes such a good mop sauce that it'd likely make a good malt vinegar too. But the idea of a mother sounds interesting too. Gotta get some Cooper's & gt the beer going first...

 

[z-bob]

No....... the idea is that the wood shavings or whatever, are a surface where the bacteria are active and extremely well aerated. The shavings are not saturated, but kept wet with the liquid trickling down over them. The idea being to maintain an optimal growth environment for acetobacter, which is an aerated but wet surface apparently.

The generator process is quite old......... the first "fast" vinegar process, and is apparently still used for craft vinegar making. It is really very different from an aerated liquid. This isn't like a mash with grain submerged in liquid.

H.W.

I didn't realize you were talking about the generator; thought you just meant the old fashioned way in an open bottle.

 

[Tegra]

I tried using mason jars with nylon mesh (same as BIAB) in a box with 80 degree air passing through. In a couple of weeks most evaporated and I just got a mess.

Maybe there was too high a temp or too high an air flow?

Maybe the same conditions would be ideal for a generator?

Tom

 

[sumbrewindude]

I'm seeing a potential mini-solera here. It seems like you could decant a starter into a jug and add the vinegar mother, then every time you make a starter for a batch of beer, add some to the jug. Then pull off a portion when the jug starts to get full, and set that aside to finish aging. That way you have a continual mother colony and you're constantly feeding it when you make a batch of beer.

Anyone see problems with this?

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

I just did some research on this, and it seems like the way to go. I think I'll use a 2.5 gal bucket as the "primary" and just pull some either when it's done or when it gets full, which ever comes first.

The only thing I can't find any information on is what would happen if you mixed wine vinegar and malt vinegar. What would happen if I were to throw in leftovers from a wine bottle into the malt vinegar bucket?

 

[Curtis2010]

Just returned to Panama after over a month away. Left a gallon of malt vinegar fermenting (Guiness + culture). Wow, very definitely vinegar, good, but not as malty as I hoped. Next batch may try a base beer like a bock for more maltiness.

Blended a sample with a little malt drink and that helped, but unfortunately it contains sugars which I suspect might create spoilage issues, but it gives me an idea of the flavor profile I want.

May also try just adding a maltier beer to the pot so that over time, with multiple uses/additions it should turn maltier.

Also need to find a crock with a spigot for ease of dispensing. I can foresee having several of these going with different vinegars in each.

Have also thought of infusing the malt vinegar with some spice or herb. What do you think would be good?

View attachment 1419089592940.jpg

 

[Curtis2010]

Just returned to Panama after over a month away. Left a gallon of malt vinegar fermenting (Guiness + culture). Wow, very definitely vinegar, good, but not as malty as I hoped. Next batch may try a base beer like a bock for more maltiness.
...

May also try just adding a maltier beer to the pot so that over time, with multiple uses/additions it should turn maltier.

...

Decanted off a lot of the finished vinegar today and bottled it.

Added two bottles of Leffe Brown to the fermentation crock to replace it.

My plan is to keep adding malty beers as I find them. A bock or double bock I think would be tasty, but didn't find any today.

What I think will be cool about that is by the time we use up one decanted batch, another with a different flavor should be done. My GF is a foodie and loves to cook. And we can keep adjusting the flavor of the batch until we really like it.

May also get a batch of red wine vinegar going. Red wines we try but don't like can be dumped in the crock.

 

[Owly055]

Decanted off a lot of the finished vinegar today and bottled it.

Added two bottles of Leffe Brown to the fermentation crock to replace it.

My plan is to keep adding malty beers as I find them. A bock or double bock I think would be tasty, but didn't find any today.

What I think will be cool about that is by the time we use up one decanted batch, another with a different flavor should be done. My GF is a foodie and loves to cook. And we can keep adjusting the flavor of the batch until we really like it.

May also get a batch of red wine vinegar going. Red wines we try but don't like can be dumped in the crock.

If you like vinegar, it's almost foolish not to do this............. It's as easy as falling off a log.


H.W.