Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[Miraculix]

I was at the local Asian grocery here in Bremen and I found traditional rice balls. They are kind of home made, they sell them in four per pack and they smell very moldy. You can still see some rice hulls underneath them and they are formed uneven.

I was so happy!

The Thai woman at the counter kindly asked me if I actually know what they are for, I had to laugh and we talked a bit about it, they often use it to make a sweet desert, not so much for wine actually. I am making a small test batch with it now, it liquified the rise much quicker then the industrial balls I had before. It's going strong now, I hope that it will be a different flavour. I'm also making some chang with it right now which hopefully will taste like the one my friends in Nepal are making. Nothing beats hot Chang.

 

[wongjau]

I added sliced red jalapeños and Chinese chives. I'm thinking next time, maybe Lan Chi brand garlic chili paste, there's no other like it.

Chives are a bit mild. I like those with eggs, shrimp, and/or rice noodles.

Green onions would be good, especially with garlic chili paste.

 

[Time2Retire]

I was at the local Asian grocery here in Bremen and I found traditional rice balls. They are kind of home made, they sell them in four per pack and they smell very moldy. You can still see some rice hulls underneath them and they are formed uneven.

I was so happy!

The Thai woman at the counter kindly asked me if I actually know what they are for, I had to laugh and we talked a bit about it, they often use it to make a sweet desert, not so much for wine actually. I am making a small test batch with it now, it liquified the rise much quicker then the industrial balls I had before. It's going strong now, I hope that it will be a different flavour. I'm also making some chang with it right now which hopefully will taste like the one my friends in Nepal are making. Nothing beats hot Chang.

Here in the extreme northern suburbs of San Diego, we have one good Asian market, and they don't carry anything like the yeast balls. I buy them a dozen at a time on Amazon.

 

[DesertCoffee]

I'm glad I found this thread, I've been wanting to try to make rice wine for a while. Here's my setup to ensure the temp, an electric blanket set to medium to keep them warm.

 

[Time2Retire]

DING-DING-DING! Jackpot!

I didn't see these at my local Asian market last time. Turns out I was just looking in the wrong places. Four bucks for five two-packs. It's a different brand than what I buy online, so I'll have to throw another batch, for Science.

(For anyone local to North San Diego County, this was at 88 Market in Oceanside).

 

[Time2Retire]

Random thought:

I'm guessing that during prohibition, Chinese-Americans weren't hurting for teh Alkeyhaulz. All they needed was rice, and I bet the little yeast pills flew under Uncle Sam's radar. How many Americans even knew what they'd be used for?

 

[MilesBFree]

Looking for a bit of help on making rice wine. I followed the recipe in the link below but am not getting any liquid output even after ~2 weeks. I looked at a number of rice wine recipes including various ones in this thread and they were all fairly similar to this one which I followed:

How to Make Sake [Fermented Rice Wine] - My Fermented Foods

I used 1 cup of sticky rice (Hakubai Japanese Sweet Rice), steamed it, cooled it, mixed in one powdered yeast ball (Hang Tail Marine Shanghai Yeast Balls), and placed in my oven with the light on (seems nice and warm, i would guess around the 80 - 85 degrees recommended).

I pull the bucket out every couple of days to check progress and it smells great - yeasty and fruity. I pressed a finger against the cheese cloth and tasted and it is yummy - tastes like people describe the finished rice wine. I am not getting ANY liquid though.

The only think I did differently from that recipe is I placed the cheese cloth bag of rice and yeast ball powder on the bottom of the bucket, not suspended in the air in the bucket.

My thoughts/questions:
1. I did not add any additional water to my primary fermenter. The recipes seem split on this; some say to pour water into the fermenter then add the rice but others say you do not need it. My rice seems moist still even after a couple of weeks in the fermenter. Should I add a couple of cups of water?

2. I started with 1 cup of rice and then steamed it. The recipe calls for "3-4 cups of cooked rice" and 3 yeast balls, so a 1:1 ratio. Given that the rice expands when cooked, did the author mean 3 - 4 cups AFTER cooking? If so, then the ratio might be more like 2 yeast balls to 1 cup of uncooked rice (before steaming).

3. Is 1 cup of rice just not enough, i.e., there is a critical mass needed and it is more than 1 cup?

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[wongjau]

Looking for a bit of help on making rice wine. I followed the recipe in the link below but am not getting any liquid output even after ~2 weeks. I looked at a number of rice wine recipes including various ones in this thread and they were all fairly similar to this one which I followed:

How to Make Sake [Fermented Rice Wine] - My Fermented Foods

I used 1 cup of sticky rice (Hakubai Japanese Sweet Rice), steamed it, cooled it, mixed in one powdered yeast ball (Hang Tail Marine Shanghai Yeast Balls), and placed in my oven with the light on (seems nice and warm, i would guess around the 80 - 85 degrees recommended).

I pull the bucket out every couple of days to check progress and it smells great - yeasty and fruity. I pressed a finger against the cheese cloth and tasted and it is yummy - tastes like people describe the finished rice wine. I am not getting ANY liquid though.

The only think I did differently from that recipe is I placed the cheese cloth bag of rice and yeast ball powder on the bottom of the bucket, not suspended in the air in the bucket.

My thoughts/questions:
1. I did not add any additional water to my primary fermenter. The recipes seem split on this; some say to pour water into the fermenter then add the rice but others say you do not need it. My rice seems moist still even after a couple of weeks in the fermenter. Should I add a couple of cups of water?

2. I started with 1 cup of rice and then steamed it. The recipe calls for "3-4 cups of cooked rice" and 3 yeast balls, so a 1:1 ratio. Given that the rice expands when cooked, did the author mean 3 - 4 cups AFTER cooking? If so, then the ratio might be more like 2 yeast balls to 1 cup of uncooked rice (before steaming).

3. Is 1 cup of rice just not enough, i.e., there is a critical mass needed and it is more than 1 cup?

Any advice would be appreciated!

If it smells yeasty and fruity, just give it more time. If everything is good, you can start seeing liquid after about 3 days. It can take longer if not optimal.

The mixture might need a bit more oxygen exposure if it’s packed tightly into your container and leveled off on top.

Best would be too loosely pack in the fermenter, leaving a vertical hole in the center of the mix. Use a permeable cover on the container. Cheesecloth, towel, or paper napkin is fine.

How many days has it been?

 

[MilesBFree]

Thanks wongjau.

About 2 weeks.

I put the rice/yeast in a cheese cloth bag, placed that in the bucket, and then placed another single layer of cheese cloth over the bucket.

I think you are on to something - I sprinkled the powdered yeast ball over the rice when it was spread out to cool, and then mixed it up with a spatula which may have packed it down too much since it is very sticky. I will break it up now and see if that helps.

 

[MilesBFree]

Update: the rice was pretty much a solid disc in the bottom of the bucket so only the rice on top was probably getting any oxygen. I broke it up into smaller hunks but given how sticky it is it likely didn't help much.

I tasted it and it is actually pretty good and I get a bit of alcohol tingle on my tongue. The bottom of the mass is quite a bit damper than the top so I think it is definitely doing something.

I plan to cook a couple more cups of rice and add it (plus more powdered yeast balls) to what I currently have since it seems like the existing stuff has started.

 

[wongjau]

Update: the rice was pretty much a solid disc in the bottom of the bucket so only the rice on top was probably getting any oxygen. I broke it up into smaller hunks but given how sticky it is it likely didn't help much.

I tasted it and it is actually pretty good and I get a bit of alcohol tingle on my tongue. The bottom of the mass is quite a bit damper than the top so I think it is definitely doing something.

I plan to cook a couple more cups of rice and add it (plus more powdered yeast balls) to what I currently have since it seems like the existing stuff has started.

Sounds good!

The yeast needs oxygen in order to multiply. They probably got off to a slow start due to needing more oxygen.

In the old days, the winemakers would stir the rice periodically during the first days to oygenate, release CO2, and adjust temperature.

 

[MilesBFree]

update: i added another 3 cups of rice (measured before cooking) mixed with 3 powdered yeast balls and stirred the old and new together for a total of 4 cups (pre-cooking) of rice. Within 2 days it started to put out liquid. It is very sweet and definitely alcohol in it. As of this morning I think it has put out maybe 1/4 cup. But it is SO syrupy and sweet so I think it needs to ferment by the yeast. I stirred the rice again today and will let it do its thing for a few weeks.
Thanks again for the advice wongjau!

 

[wongjau]

update: i added another 3 cups of rice (measured before cooking) mixed with 3 powdered yeast balls and stirred the old and new together for a total of 4 cups (pre-cooking) of rice. Within 2 days it started to put out liquid. It is very sweet and definitely alcohol in it. As of this morning I think it has put out maybe 1/4 cup. But it is SO syrupy and sweet so I think it needs to ferment by the yeast. I stirred the rice again today and will let it do its thing for a few weeks.
Thanks again for the advice wongjau!

Congrats, this sounds really good!

Yes, the sugar is from the amylase activity of the Rhizopus.

The yeast will convert that to alcohol over time.

 

[MilesBFree]

The following article is interesting and provides info on what is in the yeast balls. Given the composition of these, it seems it isn't entirely wrong to call the resulting beverage sake - it looks like these have the same type of fungus, yeast, and lactic acid (plus maybe a few other varieties of fungus and yeast). The method of adding them in separate steps in sake making is different, but the results would seem to be pretty close to the same?

I am not arguing to formally call it sake; just pointing out that it is much closer than I previously thought.

https://startercultures.eu/product/beans-rice-grains/chinese-yeast-balls-jing-bau-ragi-balls/

 

[MilesBFree]

One tip I found is that you can cook the sticky rice in the microwave and get much the same results as soaking overnight and steaming. My wife is Indian and we usually microwave jasmine rice for Indian dishes instead of the traditional steaming method, so I went looking for a similar method for sticky rice. I followed the procedure in the link below. I further simplified by soaking the rice in hot tap water (I have our tankless hot water heater set to 125 degrees F) for 15 minutes, rather than boil water and soak the rice in that before microwaving.

The results were very good and if I received the sticky rice in a restaurant I would be fairly happy. For making rice wine, it is more than good enough.

https://www.tastythais.com/best-way-to-cook-sticky-rice-in-a-microwave/

 

[Time2Retire]

One tip I found is that you can cook the sticky rice in the microwave and get much the same results as soaking overnight and steaming. My wife is Indian and we usually microwave jasmine rice for Indian dishes instead of the traditional steaming method, so I went looking for a similar method for sticky rice. I followed the procedure in the link below. I further simplified by soaking the rice in hot tap water (I have our tankless hot water heater set to 125 degrees F) for 15 minutes, rather than boil water and soak the rice in that before microwaving.

The results were very good and if I received the sticky rice in a restaurant I would be fairly happy. For making rice wine, it is more than good enough.

https://www.tastythais.com/best-way-to-cook-sticky-rice-in-a-microwave/

It's funny, but while everything I've seen in this thread highly recommends the use of sticky rice, I find I get the best results with plain old store-brand Calrose. I tried a mix of sticky and Thai jasmine, and got a low yield of VERY sweet brew. I currently have a batch of Calrose at about four weeks, and it's doing well.

 

[MilesBFree]

I don't have a good answer but was reading this when I did more research on which rice to use (I ended up going with the one above as that came up in other people's recipes):

The Ultimate Guide to Asian Rices

The liquid coming off my current batch is very sweet and sticky as you mentioned, but it sounds like mine is still in the middle of fermenting and should thin out and increase in ABV as it finishes.

 

[Miraculix]

The trick for getting less sweet wines is thinning it out a little bit at a certain stage of fermentation with either water, or water mixed with cooked sticky rice. There is some information about the proces in the two FAQ chapters that I quoted somewhere on the last pages.

All my non-sticky rice batches failed, my sticky ones were good to very good.

Btw. this rice wine is supposed to be very sweet (the thinning out thing is just an option), so you did it right, when you had a very sweet outcome. I confirmed that with my chinese friend whose grandma used to run a side buisiness, providing the neighboorhood with rice wine.

 

[pdxal]

Agreed, it should be sweet and boozy.
I have had best results, by far, with jasmine- new crop being better than older crops. Plain white, sticky, various short grains have had much less flavor. With jasmine I get more pineapple/coconut/fruity flavors.
I water it down after fermentation if I want it to be more sake-like, but am aware sake makers add water to the fermentation.
Even watered down, it is still way sweeter and flavorful than any of the many sakes I have tried.
Personally, as noted much earlier in the thread, I let mine ferment at least 6 weeks before harvesting.
May all of your batches turn out well, please keep adding results of your experiments and different methods.

 

[Miraculix]

Agreed, it should be sweet and boozy.
I have had best results, by far, with jasmine- new crop being better than older crops. Plain white, sticky, various short grains have had much less flavor. With jasmine I get more pineapple/coconut/fruity flavors.
I water it down after fermentation if I want it to be more sake-like, but am aware sake makers add water to the fermentation.
Even watered down, it is still way sweeter and flavorful than any of the many sakes I have tried.
Personally, as noted much earlier in the thread, I let mine ferment at least 6 weeks before harvesting.
May all of your batches turn out well, please keep adding results of your experiments and different methods.

I use it mainly for cooking nowadays. Sometimes I drink a bit of it but it really gives a stir fry the special "it" factor. It can be combined with soy sauce and five spices powder.

Also great just with ginger and garlic.

I have to start a new batch soon, this time I'm going to try to add a little bit more rice and water once it started to get going.

 

[Erik the Awful]

I've been interested in making a rice wine, more specifically a sake, for a while now. I hit up the local Asian market last weekend and bought a 15lb bag of Kokuho Rose - it's the closest thing I could find to short-grain rice. The store employees I asked for help all claimed they had no yeast, no yeast balls, nothing.

When I got home I started researching yeast and figured out that to make sake I needed a yeast with aspergillus oryzae. If I get yeast balls or Chinese/Korean rice yeast I'll have rhizopus pryzae. I searched Amazon for Koji-kin and everything I found was $10 a packet or more. I ended up ordering Angel Rice Leavening from Amazon (www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088H1J2GD) for $4 for 30 packets. I figure if it's a success I'll step up to the more expensive packets next time.

Am I being a snob, or does it matter that much? The videos I've seen with the Angel Rice Leavening say it turns out excellent. Is there much of a difference between Japanese sake and Chinese rice wine?

 

[wongjau]

I've been interested in making a rice wine, more specifically a sake, for a while now. I hit up the local Asian market last weekend and bought a 15lb bag of Kokuho Rose - it's the closest thing I could find to short-grain rice. The store employees I asked for help all claimed they had no yeast, no yeast balls, nothing.

When I got home I started researching yeast and figured out that to make sake I needed a yeast with aspergillus oryzae. If I get yeast balls or Chinese/Korean rice yeast I'll have rhizopus pryzae. I searched Amazon for Koji-kin and everything I found was $10 a packet or more. I ended up ordering Angel Rice Leavening from Amazon (www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088H1J2GD) for $4 for 30 packets. I figure if it's a success I'll step up to the more expensive packets next time.

Am I being a snob, or does it matter that much? The videos I've seen with the Angel Rice Leavening say it turns out excellent. Is there much of a difference between Japanese sake and Chinese rice wine?

Sake and Chinese rice wine are very different.

The Chinese wine that we are making is huang jiu (wong jau) which if aged, becomes like a Shaoxing or sherry type wine.

 

[MilesBFree]

I think I screwed up - I read that you should cover the top of the fermenter with cheesecloth so the mixture gets oxygen. I didn't read that it should then go into a carboy with airlock after a week or so. In the last week, all the liquid has evaporated, so I re-read the instructions and believe it simply evaporated.

My fermenter is a 2-gallon bucket a bit over 12" across, so a lot of uncovered area.

It still smells amazing, so I plan to add a 3rd batch of rice and yeast ball to it, get it restarted, then move to a carboy after a week.



In happier news, I started a batch of bochet following the general approach from the Atlas Obscura article on the "lost and terrifying medieval mead" and it is happily burping away.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-make-medieval-mead-bochet

 

[pdxal]

Never needs to be in a carboy or a fermenter with an airlock.
Not sure what happened to make the liquid "evaporate" but wait it out and see what happens. You can always adjust with your next batch.

 

[Miraculix]

I think I screwed up - I read that you should cover the top of the fermenter with cheesecloth so the mixture gets oxygen. I didn't read that it should then go into a carboy with airlock after a week or so. In the last week, all the liquid has evaporated, so I re-read the instructions and believe it simply evaporated.

My fermenter is a 2-gallon bucket a bit over 12" across, so a lot of uncovered area.

It still smells amazing, so I plan to add a 3rd batch of rice and yeast ball to it, get it restarted, then move to a carboy after a week.



In happier news, I started a batch of bochet following the general approach from the Atlas Obscura article on the "lost and terrifying medieval mead" and it is happily burping away.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-make-medieval-mead-bochet

Adding new rice and yeast at this stage is highly problematic, just let it ride.

 

[MilesBFree]

Thanks pdxal and Miraculix. I will wait and see what happens.

The recipe seems pretty idiot-proof and it was going along so well for the first 3 or so weeks.

What is left of the liquid looks like a sugar "paste" - like you would expect if you let syrup sit out and the liquid evaporated off. It is slightly grainy and tastes like sugar with a bit of alcohol. The taste used to be amazing but now it has lost all of the great flavors.

The rice is starting to harden up.

The only thing I can think of is the temperature is too low and the fermentation stopped. We keep the house at around 70 during the day and 66 at night. I started it in the oven with no heat other than the oven light bulbs, then once it got going pulled it out and set it on the countertop. It seemed fine with that for 2+ weeks after it was moved to the kitchen counter.

Wondering if it would help it to put it back in the oven?

 

[Miraculix]

No. Maybe you used not enough water for the rice? Did you keep the lid open during fermentation? Should be closed during fermentation. I never had excess evaporation.

 

[MilesBFree]

The rice cooked very nicely - if I received that as a sticky rice dish in a restaurant I would have been happy with it.

I think you are right - I left cheesecloth over the fermenter, and didn't add the lid. I will put the lid on now and see if it restarts

 

[Miraculix]

The rice cooked very nicely - if I received that as a sticky rice dish in a restaurant I would have been happy with it.

I think you are right - I left cheesecloth over the fermenter, and didn't add the lid. I will put the lid on now and see if it restarts

It's cheesecloth and on top of this, the lid. It actually also works without the cheese cloth, if the lid is not 100% air tight.

 

[MilesBFree]

Any guesses if putting it back in the oven with just the lightbulb on would help it? Or just leave it on the countertop?