Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[wongjau]

At which time do you add additional rice and water? How much of it and what's the water/rice ratio for the addition?

I have to check my references, but I used a combination of Fred Eckhardt’s research on jiu in “Sake USA”, Jiangnan University’s “Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages”, and “Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu”

General process was something like:

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some glutinous rice. Innoculate with jiu qu. 100 parts rice to 1 part jiu qu by volume. This works out to 1 liter of steamed rice to 1 10g yeast ball.

Ferment at 85F until liquid reaches 80% depth of the rice, ~48 hours. This is your starter.

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some more rice. Combine 112.5 parts rice, 93.75 parts water, and 25 parts jiu qu with the previous starter. This works out to 1.125 liters of steamed rice to .9375 liters of water to 25 10g yeast balls. This is your main fermentation which will go for 90 days.

So base recipe is:

Starter
1 liter rice
1 yeast ball

Main mash
1.125 liters rice
.9375 liters water
25 yeast balls

You can scale both equally to get the total batch size that you want.

Ferment, loosely covered, at 85F for 14 days. Stir 6x per day for first 2 days. Stir 2x per day for the next 5 days. Leave undisturbed for the next 7 days.

For temperature control, I set the fermenter in a large cooler of water with a sous vide circulator set to 85F.

After 14 days, seal and allow the temperature to fall and follow ambient, ~67F, for another 76 days. Plastic wrap and slightly snug cover to allow slight oxygen exchange is good.

Rack and settle to clarify. You can cold crash and/or rack several times. This is the traditional timing for racking.

Heat to 140F, remove any coagulated protein, then heat to 195F to pasteurize.

Transfer to large jars(I used 2.5 gallon) and seal as before to allow slow oxygen exchange. Cover and age at ambient temperatures for 1-5 years. Unheated garage is fine. I did 4 years.

As I wrote previously, I ended up aging on lees for 4 years, then racking and pasteurizing.

I didn’t have any problems with yeast autolysis as in brewing beer, and I wonder if aging on lees with pasteurizing at the end let flavors develop better than the traditional way.

One thing I’m fuzzy on is if I did the full amount of yeast called for on making the main mash. I know I added yeast, but it sounds like a lot. But I vaguely remember having lots of plastic bags when I was done too.

 

[pdxal]

Wow, 26 yeast balls for 8 cups of rice (uncooked? cooked?) plus water?
I use 8-10 total yeast balls in a 5 gallon bucket full of cooked rice batch, which is generally 6 full rice cooker batches of cooked rice each containing 8 (rice cooker) cups of uncooked rice plus water.

 

[wongjau]

Wow, 26 yeast balls for 8 cups of rice (uncooked? cooked?) plus water?
I use 8-10 total yeast balls in a 5 gallon bucket full of cooked rice batch, which is generally 6 full rice cooker batches of cooked rice each containing 8 (rice cooker) cups of uncooked rice plus water.

Yeah, that’s the part I want to try to figure out. That was based on the Eckhardt ratio, and I’m wondering if I had found something in the other docs that made me change it.

Possibly his was based on some kind of overpitching method for faster fermentation.

You definately can ferment with a 1 ball to 4 cups cooked ratio. I want to review regarding rationale for higher pitching rates.

 

[Orval]

View attachment 712035
ข้าวเหนียวสันป่าตอง

I took these pictures about 20 years ago in Chiang Rai, the guy's wife was cooking the sticky rice to prepare the 'wine' as wash for his rice alcohol. As you can see, no airlock or whatsoever...
Look at the 'still', very basic! I bought him one bottle, his booze was terrible...
About yeast, it's too far away, but never 8-10 yeast balls, less than that, but I can't remember, they were not easy to find as the guy said at that time.
Thanks for sharing your experience, my wife grows sticky rice here, so raw material for free...
Your rice comes from Chiang Mai, I can read ข้าวเหนียวสันป่าตอง Kao Niow San Pa Tong, San Pa Tong Sticky Rice.
San Pa Tong is a district in the Chiang Mai province... It sells for +/- 7$/5kg here...

 

[Miraculix]

I have to check my references, but I used a combination of Fred Eckhardt’s research on jiu in “Sake USA”, Jiangnan University’s “Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages”, and “Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu”

General process was something like:

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some glutinous rice. Innoculate with jiu qu. 100 parts rice to 1 part jiu qu by volume. This works out to 1 liter of steamed rice to 1 10g yeast ball.

Ferment at 85F until liquid reaches 80% depth of the rice, ~48 hours. This is your starter.

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some more rice. Combine 112.5 parts rice, 93.75 parts water, and 25 parts jiu qu with the previous starter. This works out to 1.125 liters of steamed rice to .9375 liters of water to 25 10g yeast balls. This is your main fermentation which will go for 90 days.

So base recipe is:

Starter
1 liter rice
1 yeast ball

Main mash
1.125 liters rice
.9375 liters water
25 yeast balls

You can scale both equally to get the total batch size that you want.

Ferment, loosely covered, at 85F for 14 days. Stir 6x per day for first 2 days. Stir 2x per day for the next 5 days. Leave undisturbed for the next 7 days.

For temperature control, I set the fermenter in a large cooler of water with a sous vide circulator set to 85F.

After 14 days, seal and allow the temperature to fall and follow ambient, ~67F, for another 76 days. Plastic wrap and slightly snug cover to allow slight oxygen exchange is good.

Rack and settle to clarify. You can cold crash and/or rack several times. This is the traditional timing for racking.

Heat to 140F, remove any coagulated protein, then heat to 195F to pasteurize.

Transfer to large jars(I used 2.5 gallon) and seal as before to allow slow oxygen exchange. Cover and age at ambient temperatures for 1-5 years. Unheated garage is fine. I did 4 years.

As I wrote previously, I ended up aging on lees for 4 years, then racking and pasteurizing.

I didn’t have any problems with yeast autolysis as in brewing beer, and I wonder if aging on lees with pasteurizing at the end let flavors develop better than the traditional way.

One thing I’m fuzzy on is if I did the full amount of yeast called for on making the main mash. I know I added yeast, but it sounds like a lot. But I vaguely remember having lots of plastic bags when I was done too.

Thanks for the detailed answer, much appreciated!

 

[Miraculix]

I have to check my references, but I used a combination of Fred Eckhardt’s research on jiu in “Sake USA”, Jiangnan University’s “Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages”, and “Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu”

General process was something like:

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some glutinous rice. Innoculate with jiu qu. 100 parts rice to 1 part jiu qu by volume. This works out to 1 liter of steamed rice to 1 10g yeast ball.

Ferment at 85F until liquid reaches 80% depth of the rice, ~48 hours. This is your starter.

Wash, soak, steam, and cool some more rice. Combine 112.5 parts rice, 93.75 parts water, and 25 parts jiu qu with the previous starter. This works out to 1.125 liters of steamed rice to .9375 liters of water to 25 10g yeast balls. This is your main fermentation which will go for 90 days.

So base recipe is:

Starter
1 liter rice
1 yeast ball

Main mash
1.125 liters rice
.9375 liters water
25 yeast balls

You can scale both equally to get the total batch size that you want.

Ferment, loosely covered, at 85F for 14 days. Stir 6x per day for first 2 days. Stir 2x per day for the next 5 days. Leave undisturbed for the next 7 days.

For temperature control, I set the fermenter in a large cooler of water with a sous vide circulator set to 85F.

After 14 days, seal and allow the temperature to fall and follow ambient, ~67F, for another 76 days. Plastic wrap and slightly snug cover to allow slight oxygen exchange is good.

Rack and settle to clarify. You can cold crash and/or rack several times. This is the traditional timing for racking.

Heat to 140F, remove any coagulated protein, then heat to 195F to pasteurize.

Transfer to large jars(I used 2.5 gallon) and seal as before to allow slow oxygen exchange. Cover and age at ambient temperatures for 1-5 years. Unheated garage is fine. I did 4 years.

As I wrote previously, I ended up aging on lees for 4 years, then racking and pasteurizing.

I didn’t have any problems with yeast autolysis as in brewing beer, and I wonder if aging on lees with pasteurizing at the end let flavors develop better than the traditional way.

One thing I’m fuzzy on is if I did the full amount of yeast called for on making the main mash. I know I added yeast, but it sounds like a lot. But I vaguely remember having lots of plastic bags when I was done too.

I made a new batch on sunday, loosly based on your recommendations. I cannot hold the high temperature, so it just stays at room temperature and I actually ended up mixing two different glutinous rices, one being thai middle length and on short. I used 1/1 ratio by volume between water and rice. The result was sticky, almost no milky insides left and very glue like. Not liquid, but sticky... I guess that is just what to expect when cooking sticky rice. I added two yeast balls to 1.5 kg rice plus 2-3 teaspoons red yeast rice. After day one, i was able to stir it, before the mass was too chunky and hard. It is now pretty liquid and tastes sugary. I am looking forward to seeing how this one goes on! Behaves already much better then my last batch where I used too much water and the wrong rice.

 

[wongjau]

I made a new batch on sunday, loosly based on your recommendations. I cannot hold the high temperature, so it just stays at room temperature and I actually ended up mixing two different glutinous rices, one being thai middle length and on short. I used 1/1 ratio by volume between water and rice. The result was sticky, almost no milky insides left and very glue like. Not liquid, but sticky... I guess that is just what to expect when cooking sticky rice. I added two yeast balls to 1.5 kg rice plus 2-3 teaspoons red yeast rice. After day one, i was able to stir it, before the mass was too chunky and hard. It is now pretty liquid and tastes sugary. I am looking forward to seeing how this one goes on! Behaves already much better then my last batch where I used too much water and the wrong rice.

Nice!

Steamed is less sticky than boiled.

Either way, after cooking the rice, I rinse in cold water to cool. That method has the benefit of helping separate the rice grains.

But now that yours has started to saccharify and show separate grains, it should be fine. Separate grains helps give you a good pace of breakdown to match the yeast growth.

The organisms in red yeast rice do a faster breakdown into sugars too.

I’ve used an aquarium heater in a bucket of water for maintaining temperature before. Some people stick their rice in the oven and leave the light on.

Try to do a higher temp if you can. It really helps the yeast take off after the other critters make the sugar.

Be sure to stir, especially for the first few days. That helps bring in oxygen for the yeast to grow, and helps release CO2 which also makes it easier for the yeast after they start making alcohol.

Yeast balls contain lactobacillus. They do better at higher temps too. And their lactic acid lowers the pH which helps prevent other bacteria from getting established.

In the old days, one method for increasing lactic acid was to soak the 2nd batch of rice for a couple weeks, intentionally allowing the soaking water to turn sour. Adding some of that sour water to the mash acidifies it and helps protect it from contamination. That’s why in some documentaries you can see the old winemakers reaching down into open fermenters with their bare arms.

 

[DarrenUK]

I plan on trying this was looking for yeast balls locally but no luck will order online thanks

If you can't get hold of them try Angle Rice Leaven

I have been doing testing with this stuff on a different thread.

This one had no added yeast.

This one I added yeast and it definitely started faster. I'm not yet at the end of the test. But I can say the one without yeast added smells better. Angle Rice Leaven has yeast and koji already in the packet despite not actually saying it dose. It's been a bit of a headache with opinion being devided on the subject so I did the test myself.

 

[Orval]

Yellow label angel yeast

 

[Time2Retire]

I just drank some of the clear stuff on the rocks, squeeze of lime, dash of bitters, just a hint of simple. Dangerously smooth.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I just drank some of the clear stuff on the rocks, squeeze of lime, dash of bitters, just a hint of simple. Dangerously smooth.

I made a huge batch one time for my friends and it came out deliciously smooth and sweet, needless to say we were trying it out while playing poker one night and 2 of them ended up sleeping on my couch.

 

[wongjau]

I made a huge batch one time for my friends and it came out deliciously smooth and sweet, needless to say we were trying it out while playing poker one night and 2 of them ended up sleeping on my couch.

The owner of the local homebrew store used to call that type of alcohol “panty melter”.

But that was back in the 90’s when things were less PC. I had just brought him some of my hard cider to try.

 

[Time2Retire]

Well, I was going to wait on making some more until the weather cooled down, but let's say there's a sudden, ahem, shortage.

Has anyone tried the "black Japonica rice" that Lundberg sells? I was thinking of going half and half with the glutinous kind.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I use this and it comes out sweet and smooth.

 

[wongjau]

Well, I was going to wait on making some more until the weather cooled down, but let's say there's a sudden, ahem, shortage.

Has anyone tried the "black Japonica rice" that Lundberg sells? I was thinking of going half and half with the glutinous kind.

That’s a mixture of short grain glutinous black rice and medium grain mahogany rice. Medium and long grain rice don’t give a good yield compared to short grain glutinous rice.

You could use the rice and go with the lower yield, or sift out the medium grain and just use the black rice.

Best would be just to get 100% black glutinous rice from an asian market to ferment and don’t even bother mixing with regular glutinous rice.

Here’s a research article on the biochemistry of traditional black glutinous rice wine fermentation.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.00593/full
The article includes a short description of the fermentation procedure used.

Using all black glutinous rice as in the traditional process would be best to take advantage of its particular flavor profile.

 

[Time2Retire]

My latest batch begins. One kilo sweet rice, two yeast pills, one tablespoon RYR powdered. I was a little nervous because the rice seemed dry, but Day 3, the liquid is forming and it smells the way it should.

We shall see.

UPDATE: Day 10, the liquid is already over the rice and we have a couple of rice rafts. The RYR is propagating through the white spots, and along with the usual vanilla-spice there is a note of cherry-like aroma.

 

[Miraculix]

My last batch turned out well! This stuff is really sweet, a bit sour in a nice way and has a huge punch. I made it with additional red yeast rice, next batch will be without, just to be able to compare. A Chinese friend sent me some Hakka chicken recipes, which is basically ginger, chicken and rice wine boiled till tender. It sounds great, will try it on the weekend.

And as a nice by-product, through all the stuff I learned here, I was able to recreate an authentic Nepalese/Tibetan Chang for the first time. The main problem was the water/grain ratio. I used too much water. Now it's not sour anymore! Just a little bit, in a nice way.

 

[wongjau]

My last batch turned out well! This stuff is really sweet, a bit sour in a nice way and has a huge punch. I made it with additional red yeast rice, next batch will be without, just to be able to compare. A Chinese friend sent me some Hakka chicken recipes, which is basically ginger, chicken and rice wine boiled till tender. It sounds great, will try it on the weekend.

Since you used the red yeast rice, you can make Fuzhou style red chicken.

https://werynice.com/home/?p=245
You strain and save the leftover rice to use for cooking. You can use it to make the red colored Chinese bbq pork too.

 

[Miraculix]

Since you used the red yeast rice, you can make Fuzhou style red chicken.

https://werynice.com/home/?p=245
You strain and save the leftover rice to use for cooking. You can use it to make the red colored Chinese bbq pork too.

Nooooooooo I threw the leftovers away! I won't do it again!!!

Now I have to make a new batch asap. Luckily, I bought enough rice two days ago .

Edit: the chicken recipe sounds delicious. How much red rice is used in an authentic red rice wine? I only used a few teaspoons on one kg of rice. The result is not really red but more of a pinkish colour.

 

[wongjau]

Nooooooooo I threw the leftovers away! I won't do it again!!!

Now I have to make a new batch asap. Luckily, I bought enough rice two days ago .

Edit: the chicken recipe sounds delicious. How much red rice is used in an authentic red rice wine? I only used a few teaspoons on one kg of rice. The result is not really red but more of a pinkish colour.

Recipes for red yeast rice wine vary, but standard is 80g red yeast rice to 1 kg glutinous rice, in addition to the regular yeast balls.

After the wine is done, save the rice in a jar in the fridge and you can use it for various recipes.

I actually used some to make red fermented bean curd which is a kind of special ingredient in some recipes. Fermented bean curd is another whole level of crazy, but interesting if you are into making cheese and the like.

 

[Miraculix]

Recipes for red yeast rice wine vary, but standard is 80g red yeast rice to 1 kg glutinous rice, in addition to the regular yeast balls.

After the wine is done, save the rice in a jar in the fridge and you can use it for various recipes.

I actually used some to make red fermented bean curd which is a kind of special ingredient in some recipes. Fermented bean curd is another whole level of crazy, but interesting if you are into making cheese and the like.

uhhhhh
Tell me more! Where can I get information and recipes of the red bean curd?

 

[wongjau]

You can follow this one to get an idea.

http://carolynjphillips.blogspot.com/search?q=fermented+bean+curd
She also does a red rice wine, but I like less water than she uses.

If you really get into it, there are Chinese documentaries on Youtube about historic methods for fermented bean curd. Also, the food science and engineering text I referenced earlier has a section on it.

It’s uncommon to do at home. It’s almost like a lost skill. Like making soy sauce. Pretty much everybody buys it at the store.

I like the white fermented chili bean curd better, but some recipes use red.

Here’s a pic of both types I made.

If you buy the chili type, I like this brand the best.

https://www.amazon.com/Szechuan-Fermented-Beancurd-Tofu-Spicy/dp/B073SLCQZC
Buy at the Asian market. Amazon price is ridiculous.

 

[Miraculix]

You can follow this one to get an idea.

http://carolynjphillips.blogspot.com/search?q=fermented+bean+curd
She also does a red rice wine, but I like less water than she uses.

If you really get into it, there are Chinese documentaries on Youtube about historic methods for fermented bean curd. Also, the food science and engineering text I referenced earlier has a section on it.

It’s uncommon to do at home. It’s almost like a lost skill. Like making soy sauce. Pretty much everybody buys it at the store.

I like the white fermented chili bean curd better, but some recipes use red.

Here’s a pic of both types I made.

View attachment 742615

If you buy the chili type, I like this brand the best.

https://www.amazon.com/Szechuan-Fermented-Beancurd-Tofu-Spicy/dp/B073SLCQZC
Buy at the Asian market. Amazon price is ridiculous.

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[Time2Retire]

Well I think I may have had my first bad batch.

All sweet rice with a tablespoon of RYR, two yeast pills. At 23 days there is very little liquid and the mixture is VERY sweet. Since it's a total loss at this point, I threw in half a cup of water, and proofed half a package of Lalvin 212 I found in my refrigerator. At least I get to see if it's possible to kickstart this stuff.

UPDATE: A day after adding the wine yeast and moving to a smaller container, I'm pleased to report I'm seeing activity, and the rice is starting to float again. I'm wondering if the RYR is somehow competing with the yeast in the balls.

 

[Time2Retire]

I'm unhappy with that batch. After rescue, I got exactly 1.1 liters, and it's very sweet. I pasteurized the liter and now it's cold crashing, but I'm not expecting much.

I have three batches going now.

A kilo each of glutinous rice and jasmine rice, no RYR.

A kilo of calrose, with RYR.

A kilo without.

I'll start seeing results toward the end of my vacation, three weeks hence.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm unhappy with that batch. After rescue, I got exactly 1.1 liters, and it's very sweet. I pasteurized the liter and now it's cold crashing, but I'm not expecting much.

I have three batches going now.

A kilo each of glutinous rice and jasmine rice, no RYR.

A kilo of calrose, with RYR.

A kilo without.

I'll start seeing results toward the end of my vacation, three weeks hence.

The "red yeast rice" is actually not red yeast but red mold. The naming is just wrong, so there's no competition between the red and the yeasts from the balls (sounds very wrong to me ).

 

[Time2Retire]

The "red yeast rice" is actually not red yeast but red mold. The naming is just wrong, so there's no competition between the red and the yeasts from the balls (sounds very wrong to me ).

All I know is, I seem to get a higher yield without the RYR. My 50/50 jasmine/glutinous is having a yeast party.

 

[Time2Retire]

Update:

I extracted my 50/50 batch yesterday, and I've got almost three liters. Not too sweet this time and lots of yummy alkeyhaulz. I've got it in cheesecloth-covered mason jars, back into the cabinet. I'm going to give it another couple weeks on the fine lees before pasteurizing, to see if that will dry it down some more.

By the way, I made red lees chicken with some of the lees from my first RYR batch, and found it kinda bland.

 

[wongjau]

By the way, I made red lees chicken with some of the lees from my first RYR batch, and found it kinda bland.

Might need more ginger, soy sauce, and wine. A little fish sauce is good too. The red yeast is mainly for color and health benefits.

 

[Time2Retire]

Might need more ginger, soy sauce, and wine. A little fish sauce is good too. The red yeast is mainly for color and health benefits.

I added sliced red jalapeños and Chinese chives. I'm thinking next time, maybe Lan Chi brand garlic chili paste, there's no other like it.