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Evilgrin said:
Koji contains no yeast. It contains a fungus and only produces an enzyme which converts starch to sugar.
Click to expand...

Which is why I don't understand why some posts here and websites with recipes, and even advice by a Singaporean grandmother who has been making it most of her life, said to throw out the entire batch if you get white mold growing on top. There is mold mycelium growing throughout the entire brew -- that's what's required to convert the starches to sugars. Just because some of it at the top decides to form spores shouldn't do any harm. So I'm quite confused why so many recipes I've found on the web advise throwing it away if you see mold. :confused:

One of my batches has a huge hairy dome of white mold on top and another batch is starting to show small mold hairs with tiny black specks on the ends. I see this as confirmation that the mold is doing its thing. I suppose could be wrong and there's something "bad" that happens when the mold goes to spore like off tastes or something. This is my first time making this so I will know in about 15 more days.
 
I don't think mold spores will hurt your wine. I usually get a white mold 'top' on my wine. I can't see any fuzz though. Just a little white clouding on top.

For the last two successful batches it has turned out fine. Good and drinkable.

I brought a bottle to my friends house tonight. He loved it. He says that it definitely tastes 'home made' but to me that is a compliment :).

That just encourages me to make more and share with more of my friends!

Even more reason for me to get a new batch going every week! :tank:

This stuff is good to bring to friend's houses!
 
I have only gotten thru 100 pages of this thread so far but couldn't wait to ask if anyone has used Nuruk As a starter culture for their rice wine. It is usually used as a starter for making Korean makgeolli. Which is a watered down rice wine . It seems to have many many strains of fungi, bacterium and yeasts in the mix. I just stumbled on rice wine brewing and a comparison brew between Nuruk and Jiuqu as starters would be interesting.
 
Yes, i have used nuruk. It will "liquefy" cooked rice very very fast. It can get sour very fast too. A cold fermentation (50ishF) will greatly reduce lactic acid production. I have not used it with minimal water though. I imagine it could be used in a similar manner as yeast balls or RYR by just adding some re-hydrated yeast to the rice and nuruk.
 
So, MasterCrook mentioned here...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6962712&postcount=5089

... that black specks were fine. Is there detail somewhere in the thread that explains this? Not refuting it, just trying to gather more info.

After a sunny weekend, during which it was sitting in a box near a window with southern exposure, I'm seeing a couple of patches of black, speckly mold clinging to the inside of the jar where the rice has dropped down.

IMGUR album for observation.
 
SaucedBrews said:
So, MasterCrook mentioned here...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6962712&postcount=5089

... that black specks were fine. Is there detail somewhere in the thread that explains this? Not refuting it, just trying to gather more info.

After a sunny weekend, during which it was sitting in a box near a window with southern exposure, I'm seeing a couple of patches of black, speckly mold clinging to the inside of the jar where the rice has dropped down.

IMGUR album for observation.
Click to expand...

Nice pictures :)
That looks like a lot of black specs, I've never had that much in my ferments. If I get them, which is very rare, it is usually just on the top floating rice cap. The specs look the same, but I had far less
 
I would just continue the ferment until it's done and if it smells like acetone, it's no good. After the ferment it should smell like melon if everything goes well
 
So my ARL finally arrived from China. It took 8 weeks.

When pitching ARL, would it be a good idea to mix it in with my re hydrated yeast and pitch it all in the rice mash together like that? I'm using ec-1118

Btw guys, I have my 5th batch fermenting away nicely already its five days in. :mug: This is some good stuff eh?
 
When i use ARL or RYR, i add the yeast after 24-48 hours. I mix the ARL or RYR with warm rice and keep it warm that whole time. Angel's directions say to use the "warmer" setting on a rice cooker. I just use a heating pad and a towel.

I prefer the rice to taste sweet before adding the yeast. I also rehydrate the yeast with a minimal amount of water with either sugar or rice syrup.

Pitch the hydrated yeast on the rice after its cooled to a safe temp for the yeast. Let it set at room temp for a day before moving to a cool place.

If using more liquid to start, get it cool faster and ferment colder. EC-1118 should ferment even in the low 50s.
 
So do you just pitch the hydrated yeast right over top of the rice in the fermenter jar, or do you stir it in?
 
Evilgrin said:
I mix it in. Then put it all in the fermenter..
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Using ARL seems a bit more complicated than yeast balls. I'd rather not handle it twice. Do you use the same fermenter jar to kick start the ARL that you use for main fermentation?

I'm just wondering exactly how it's done, the posts way earlier in this thread are not clear at all about using ARL.

Basically what I am wondering is, should I mix my rice with ARL, leave it in warm temps for a day, then remove it from the jar, then mix in the yeast and then put it all back? Would it be better to add it all back to a sanitized jar?

I use my bare hands (sanitized) to mix in my crushed yeast balls and haven't had an issue yet.
 
CanadianJesus said:
Using ARL seems a bit more complicated than yeast balls. I'd rather not handle it twice. Do you use the same fermenter jar to kick start the ARL that you use for main fermentation?

I'm just wondering exactly how it's done, the posts way earlier in this thread are not clear at all about using ARL.

Basically what I am wondering is, should I mix my rice with ARL, leave it in warm temps for a day, then remove it from the jar, then mix in the yeast and then put it all back? Would it be better to add it all back to a sanitized jar?

I use my bare hands (sanitized) to mix in my crushed yeast balls and haven't had an issue yet.
Click to expand...

So I haven't used ARL myself BUT I was under the impression that ARL needs no further yeast...it contains all fungi needed for saccharification and fermentation.
 
But the ingredients on the package say it only contains Rhizopus oryzae and wheat flour. No mention of yeast, but from my previous reading of this thread, I was under the impression that people were making rice wine using only ARL, which is why I'm confused as all heck right now.

Maybe some experimentation is in order when I have some free time and free fermentor jars.
 
As far as i know there is no yeast in Angel Rice Leaven. Angel does however sell yeast also. ARL is used to make something similar to Japanese amazake. The process is almost the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuniang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazake

IIRC a few here have tried using just ARL and they did not achieve fermentation.

Go ahead and add the ARL and around 1/2 cup of a hydrated yeast starter. I would suggest KV-1116 and a long 50-60F ferment. Make sure your yeast is very active before pitching and has enough sugar added while waiting for the ARL to do its job.
 
Evilgrin,
Have you done a batch with just koji? I'm curious if anyone has used just koji and how it turned out
 
MasterCrook said:
Evilgrin,
Have you done a batch with just koji? I'm curious if anyone has used just koji and how it turned out
Click to expand...

Mine is on its 15th day
200grams of koji
5 cups of rice (dry)
EC-1118

Fermenting in a cooler with a frozen 1 liter bottle changed every morning. First time trying koji and i have never used it without yeast added. Koji is far too expensive and you can accomplish nearly the same thing with ARL.

There are tons of amazake recipes out there. You make it in a rice cooker set on warm after cooking the rice. Mix in your koji with warm rice and leave it on the warmer setting for 24hours or a little more.

You will have a sweet rice porridge that taste similar to a rice pudding.
 
Trying dwhill's method. Put rice, yeast balls, flour in a spigoted bucket Sunday morning. Waiting for fermentation to begin...

BTW, 10 pounds of rice is a LOT of rice to cook!
 
Does anybody else not like the 'pudding' that yeast balls make after a day or two?

The other day I made 12 cups of rice that just barely fit into two fermenter jars. After 24 hours the CO2 expanded the rice mash to the point that the rice was touching the cheese cloth so I had to scoop some out. I decided to eat the rice that I removed. Slightly sweet, but not very pleasant tasting. The liquid on the other hand was extremely sweet and syrupy, like liquefied cane sugar. I love the wine, but not so much the Jiuniang.

Long story short, I'm not putting a full six cups and filling my fermenter jars to the top anymore. I'll do 10 or 11 cup batches from now on.

And btw, I'm back to using sweet rice. I figured it's only a couple bucks more than Calrose at the same weight and gives a much better yield and an overall better product.
 
Evilgrin said:
Mine is on its 15th day
200grams of koji
5 cups of rice (dry)
EC-1118

Fermenting in a cooler with a frozen 1 liter bottle changed every morning. First time trying koji and i have never used it without yeast added. Koji is far too expensive and you can accomplish nearly the same thing with ARL.

There are tons of amazake recipes out there. You make it in a rice cooker set on warm after cooking the rice. Mix in your koji with warm rice and leave it on the warmer setting for 24hours or a little more.

You will have a sweet rice porridge that taste similar to a rice pudding.
Click to expand...

I'm interested to see how your batch turns out and if there's a difference in clarity, taste, alcohol, smell, compared to using just yeast balls
 
Day 6 and I am just starting to get some action in this batch. Added yeast balls and rice flour on day 2. No airlock activity. Top layer of rice starting to look funky and the wine smell is just starting. It's in an area about 65°.
 
One week in and this is what the jasmine rice is looking like. So I am guessing that I indeed get yeast balls. Nothing English on package. Kinda funny at Asian market I asked for yeast balls. Guy says yeast ball? yes yeast balls to crush and add to rice for wine. yeast balls? yes you add it to rice to make sake/wine. then points to old atomic fireball container that has a label on it that says garlic and says $.50 a package. I'm sure they all had a good laugh after I walked out the door with what I needed for rice wine.

IMG_5161.jpg


IMG_5162.jpg
 
actech said:
One week in and this is what the jasmine rice is looking like. So I am guessing that I indeed get yeast balls. Nothing English on package. Kinda funny at Asian market I asked for yeast balls. Guy says yeast ball? yes yeast balls to crush and add to rice for wine. yeast balls? yes you add it to rice to make sake/wine. then points to old atomic fireball container that has a label on it that says garlic and says $.50 a package. I'm sure they all had a good laugh after I walked out the door with what I needed for rice wine.
Click to expand...

That's awesomely funny. I had to get mine online. Your batch looks perfect by the way.
 
So, I've got a couple of large mason jars fermenting away, a couple of weeks apart and a co-worker has stirred my curiousity on using a rather odd ingredient as an experiment. Rather than threadjack this topic, I'd request you have a look at this new post.
 
actech said:
... then points to old atomic fireball container that has a label on it that says garlic and says $.50 a package..
Click to expand...

Sounds like the typically strange experience I have when ever I go looking for them.

I guess you should know how to read Chinese before you make rice wine:)

One woman at an Asian market was concerned that I I was buying the wrong kind of rice. She said concerned "that rice is glutinous rice, very sticky"?

She understood when I told her I was making rice wine.
 
brewit75 said:
That's awesomely funny. I had to get mine online. Your batch looks perfect by the way.
Click to expand...

Where to you get yours online and what type do you use? The only 'local' Asian market is a 45 minute drive in the same town where my LHBS is. I plan on giving them a visit to see if I can get larger bags of sweet/glutinous rice at a decent price on my next visit to town.

I have been using Onto Yeast since they are fairly local to me (2 hour drive and 2 day shipping via Canada Post). Shipping for one 1lb bag is pricey, so I just buy two for an additional $2 shipping. The shipping is in fact cheaper than what I would pay in fuel to get there and back myself. It's noteworthy that Onto Yeast has been giving me stellar results so far.
 
Onto wanted $20+ to ship some to me in Missouri. I had to pass on them. I cant see paying around $30+ for a package of yeast balls when i can buy Chinese yeast balls locally for about $1.50 a package and a bag of RYR is about $2.50. The cheap ones i get locally work very good and they work fantastic with some red yeast rice added. Even ARL shipped from China cost less for 10 packets.

I am rather spoiled when it comes to Asian markets. I have no less than 6 of them within 20 miles but only one carries the yeast balls. I pay about the same price for top shelf Cali grown Koshihikari rice as many pay for Botan (Cal Rose) at typical grocery stores.
 
Has anyone tried adding cooked pearl barley to a rice wine. Ive seen barley used in some Asian distilled beverages but im unsure of what type of barley was used.
 
Just bottled batch #4. It is almost undrinkable. It is sour, but not in a good way. I used a different rice for this one than usual. I used 'Thai Long Grain Glutinous/Sticky Rice' From Foodland. I usually use 'Rooster Brand Medium Grain Sweet Rice' From The Real Canadian Super Store. The Sweet Rice has turned out awesome in the past and is what I have used in my current two batches which are fermenting as I type. The other difference with this batch is that I did not pre-soak the rice. I rinsed it and cooked it.

I have two other batches fermenting which I used Rooster Brand Sweet Rice on. One I did not pre-soak, the other I did pre-soak. I read earlier in this thread that not soaking does not make a difference. I guess I will know in a weeks time.

This batch is salvageable by adding simple syrup and lemon juice to the wine. But even that just barely makes it drinkable. I guess I'll just have to choke this one down and hope next week's batch turns out good. :tank: I'd hate to have to dump 4 bottles down the drain (I already drank 1).
 
Add a vinegar mother to the sour batch and let it set for 6 months. I use a mason jar with a coffee filter and mason band over the top. Let it breath. In 6 months to a year you will have a rice wine vinegar. :D

I always rinse my rice till the water runs clear and soak over night when making rice wine. I don't think this really keeps it from turning sour though. Too much water and warm temps combined makes it turn sour. Some rice balls may also produce a more sour product. Nuruk for example can turn sour quickly if temps are not controlled. The lactobacillus loves a warm environment.

Im doing an experiment atm. I have 2 2qt mason jars fermenting cold using koji and Lalvin yeast. I took about 500ml from the same batch and im letting it finish at room temps. It should be ready for sampling in about another week.
 
Has anyone ever done a PH test on the resulting rice wine? I'm curious about long-term storage safety after pasteurization and would like to know if the PH is < 4.5 which would make it inhospitable to Clostridium botulinum bacteria.

I just bottled and pasteurized my first two experiments after 30 days:
Clear rice wine made with long grain rice puree
Red rice wine made with long grain rice puree (rice + yeast ball + red rice yeast)

My first two batches have much more water than the recipe calls for because I made a puree instead of packing in dryish rice, so PH may be higher and alcohol content lower than the traditional method. Tasting the above 2 batches, I don't detect any sourness.

My jasmine, glutenous, and gluteneous rice flour batches still have a few days to go. For those interested, the raw glutenous rice flour test was a complete failure. I will next try steaming it first.

Edit: To answer my own question, I got some PH strips and tested and both of my first two batches came out to PH 4.0 or less. Woot!
 
KevinM said:
Admittedly this thread has always bothered me, because sake most commonly known as rice wine in the us is made differently. I usually call this stuff Korean rice wine to differentiate it from Japanese rice wine.

Sake is made with koji (the enyme producing mold and yeast.) This process also has more specific procedures and steps involving koji additions. Most sake we see is more scientific perfectobrew.

Korean and chinese fermented rice wine uses the rice ball method. This is usually called lao zao, or jiuqu. Or cheongju or makkgeoli. The riceball is then called nuruk. Its more... throw it all together than sake/rice wine is.

The flavors are incredibly different. Thankfully, people know sake as sake these days. But I'd say its kinda like sake for people who don't know.
Click to expand...

Y'all would probably like this movie now available on Netflix & Amazon Prime. It's about how Saké is made in a 140 year old brewery in Japan. Check out the trailer... https://youtu.be/2K2bIAikUg4

SAM:rockin:
 

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