Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[Leadgolem]

I would suspect that if one were working clean, the difference between under pitching and over pitching would be a matter of days. There is a set amount of media and if we can prevent infection, we only need to account for the propagation of the mold through the media. In theory, adding one spore or each mold would be enough to get this party started. Any more than that is just using a pitch rate to fight off infection. The magic mushroom guys use nanograms of spores to inoculate their media.

Some of the instructions I read talked about days before removing the liquid from the rice mash. Darn if I could find it now.

I was thinking about one of your earlier experiments. I think it was yours. One of the six or so samples didn't produce much of a result. But the picture showed your media as completely covered in mold. I wonder if that couldn't be used to inoculate a batch of rice?

Sorry if I'm rambling. Vicodin, Flexeril, mead and rice wine are a nasty combination. I highly recommend it.

It probably was my grains experiment. Both the brown rice and the wheat berries failed to yield any useful amount of liquid. The wheat berries did grow completely over with white mold.

It might have been possible to use that to inoculate another batch, but it would have to be done relatively soon in the process I think. I eventually dumped them as they clearly had started rotting from the bottom up.

 

[Descender]

trying this with potatoes. Scrubbed, shredded, and rinsed until clean, 5 medium sized russet potatoes. Steaming now. Will drain until pretty much dry. Looking to get about halfway full on a gallon jar. 2 Chinese balls...

 

[jak1010]

Here's something interesting. I've got a known working recipe of 1/2 of a packet of ARL to 3 cups of dry rice. That would be 4 grams of ARL. I just weighed a cup of dry Thai jasmine rice. It weighed, according to my not particularly sensitive food scale, 212 grams. Not a recipe I've tried, but it's jak1010's so it's from a good source. That makes the ARL addition ~0.63% of the dry rice weight.

The manufacturer would have you use about half that, or ~1.9 grams for the same weight of rice.

I've got a very sensitive food scale as well, but it caps out at 200grams. For that reason I'll be doing the rice by volume, and the ARL by weight. The idea here is to establish a best working ratio, and I do have the equipment to do batches that are very precise, so here are the intended experiments.

1. 1.5 cups dry rice. 1 rice yeast balls. 1/3 oz or ~9.4 grams. (control)
2. 1.5 cups dry rice. 2 grams ARL. (known working ratio)
3. 1.5 cups dry rice. 1 grams ARL. (manufactures suggestion, approximate)
4. 1.5 cups dry rice. 0.5 grams ARL.

Typically, I would think you would want to use whichever ratio works the best in batches at least twice this size. Especially since the ARL packet is 8 grams. I'm going to go start the rice now.

This is interesting... I never knew what the right ratio was. Although, I've come to find that no matter what I brew, beer, wines and meads, I have a tendency to over pitch yeast.
This is great info to have!

 

[TBBrewer]

This is interesting... I never knew what the right ratio was. Although, I've come to find that no matter what I brew, beer, wines and meads, I have a tendency to over pitch yeast.
This is great info to have!

I did 6 cups dry rice to 1 pkt so I guess that is 8 grams. This would put me at .75: 1.

 

[Descender]

ended up with 1/3 gallon of steamed potatoes. Used I yeast ball. Off to the dungeon with fingers crossed...

 

[Leadgolem]

This is interesting... I never knew what the right ratio was. Although, I've come to find that no matter what I brew, beer, wines and meads, I have a tendency to over pitch yeast.
This is great info to have!

Haha, me too. The ARL is a little difficult for some of us to get though, so I thought it would be a good idea to find out how much you really need.

I did 6 cups dry rice to 1 pkt so I guess that is 8 grams. This would put me at .75: 1.

Well, the ratio jack1010 told me he was using was 1/2 packet to 3 cups dry rice. So, you've actually been using exactly the same ratio.

Ok, I've got all 4 batches running now. I was dividing a single batch of rice into 4 different batches of rice wine. Either my scale is a little less accurate then I thought, or there was more wastage in the process then I thought. I'm leaning toward the second, based on how much rice was in my sinks debris catcher. I did the batches in order of lowest ARL content to highest, then the rice yeast ball batch.

I first weighed one of the same kind of jars. Hit tare on my food scale. Then weighed each filled jar with the lid on. I knew I was a little short on cooked rice when I got to the last batch, but I wanted it for flavor comparison anyway. For that, it should work just fine. I just won't be able to use the data comparing the yields...Or rather it will be indicative, but not definitive. That is, after some extra math. In any case, I'll want to do a separate yield comparison experiment.

1. 0.5 grams ARL: 802 grams
2. 1 gram ARL: 785 grams
3. 2 grams ARL: 784 grams
4. Rice yeast ball: 682 grams

I'll post a checkup of them in a week.

 

[sonofgrok]

ended up with 1/3 gallon of steamed potatoes. Used I yeast ball. Off to the dungeon with fingers crossed...

You crazy man. Ha ha.

 

[Whippy]

trying this with potatoes. Scrubbed, shredded, and rinsed until clean, 5 medium sized russet potatoes. Steaming now. Will drain until pretty much dry. Looking to get about halfway full on a gallon jar. 2 Chinese balls...

I was actually thinking of trying this with grits yesterday...as soon as I get some more yeast, I think I will. I hope your taters do something good :cross:

 

[Unferth]

trying this with potatoes. Scrubbed, shredded, and rinsed until clean, 5 medium sized russet potatoes. Steaming now. Will drain until pretty much dry. Looking to get about halfway full on a gallon jar. 2 Chinese balls...

Yes. You need to post pictures. 1000 words, you know

 

[OG_IBU_Bunghole]

I started four batches, each one week apart. I'm starting to doubt this will be as useful as I hoped. The temps did vary slightly over the last 5 weeks and I could only control the rest of the process so much when cooking the rice on four different occasions. They were all chinese balls from the same package, same soak, rinse, cook time, and water ratio.

That said... what dates would you harvest at to compare???
2,3,4, & 5 weeks?
3,4,5, & 6 weeks?
Let a couple jars ride longer to see a more pronounced difference like 3,4, 6, & 8 weeks?

Thank in advance for the input. This board is amazing and I honestly read this thread religiously

 

[Leadgolem]

I harvest almost all of my batches after 3 weeks.

 

[Baileisdad]

Started a batch in a 5 gallon bucket . Looks to be off to a good start mixed Chinese balls in with rice. Then rolled rice into baseball sized balls. Stacked them in bucket and today I got a bunch of fuzzy white balls.

 

[Descender]

Yes. You need to post pictures. 1000 words, you know

two days in. Just peeked. little bit of liquid at the bottom. Couple bubbles in there... will update in a few. Pics are hard to upload on the app...

 

[OG_IBU_Bunghole]

I harvest almost all of my batches after 3 weeks.

I've harvested all of my rice wine batches at 21 days and eaten the batches for intended for eating after 3 days. To clarify, I'm trying to make the fermentation time the dependent variable to see the difference. Some folks here have regularly gone 4 weeks and even accidentally accidentally gone months and a grocer at one of my yeast balls sources implied that you can let the ferment go for years to produce a radically different beverage.

After further pondering I'm thinking I'll go 3 & 4 to see that difference... then let the other two jars go to 6 and 12 for outliers to our tried and true process.

 

[trbig]

Some folks here have regularly gone 4 weeks and even accidentally accidentally gone months and a grocer at one of my yeast balls sources implied that you can let the ferment go for years to produce a radically different beverage.

The two batches I accidentally had go for months turned out the best (And clearest) I've made.... so far.

 

[Unferth]

So my neighbor stopped by tonight while I was cooking up some rice for rice wine and she gave me these to put in it. She's from somewhere near Beijing.




She said its a supplement for yeast and person nutrition. Says her folks used it for rice wine.

I'm going to give it a shot regardless, but has anybody seen these before?

 

[trbig]

According to this, wolfberries are the fountain of youth, cures everything that could possibly ail you, and jumps over tall buildings with a single bound? lol. Also, it says it's supposed to help your liver. So drinking this wine is going to HELP your liver.. yeah.. THAT'S the ticket!


http://www.phytochemicals.info/plants/wolfberry.php

But honestly, I'd be willing to try anything that added a berry taste to this. Did she say how much to use? The main downfall I see of it is that it's fairly expensive.

 

[Unferth]

According to this, wolfberries are the fountain of youth, cures everything that could possibly ail you, and jumps over tall buildings with a single bound? lol. Also, it says it's supposed to help your liver. So drinking this wine is going to HELP your liver.. yeah.. THAT'S the ticket!


http://www.phytochemicals.info/plants/wolfberry.php

But honestly, I'd be willing to try anything that added a berry taste to this. Did she say how much to use? The main downfall I see of it is that it's fairly expensive.

Haha. Yeah she called it Goji. She said they make the wine and have post-partem mothers eat the rice with it to help recover and stimulate milk production.

She said just use 'all or half'. I just sprinkled some in the jar.

I really hope it doesn't stimulate any milk production...

 

[trbig]

After the wine is done, I'd personally have to try eating one of the berries... or all of them.

They say they're pretty easy to grow. Hardy in zones 5-9, but it takes two years to get berries. I wonder if the alcohol submersion kills the seed? I guess you could take that out first. Either way, now I'm going to have to pick some up at the China store and see if I like them.

 

[trbig]

Well, I went and picked up these "Berries" from a couple different stores. One package says "Goji Berries". The other packages say "Fructus Lycii". Wolfberries are the english name. All the same.

I ate a couple handfulls. They smell much better than they taste. Very fruity smell, a bit maybe like cranberries, but the taste is just kind of bland. There's a sweetness to it, but not much.

The bag labelled Goji Berries was $9 for 12.7 ounces. It has the comparisons of antioxidants to:

Oranges, 750

Strawberries, 1,540

Prunes, 5,770

Goji Berries, 25,300!

The smaller bags are 5 oz and were $2.89. Definately the better deal, BUT... the bigger bag had several additives such as small amounts of blueberry and raspberry extracts and sugar. The smaller bags have sulfite as a preservative.

Since these are dried fruit, I'm sure there will be some living molds/yeasts on them. My plan is to put a bag full in the bottom of my bucket, then dump steamed rice directly onto it, hopefully killing any wild things with heat.

I did find some info saying people that are taking warfarin (Rat poison.. lol) as a blood thinner or hypertension or diabetic drug users should avoid them.

 

[trbig]

A while back, you may or may not remember me posting that I'd forgotten a couple batches of rice wine in the ferment buckets for several months, and the wine turned out excellent.

Well, for probably at least 2 months before that, I had a batch of RYR wine that I sterilized in hot water for 20 minutes, then capped. I put it all in the fridge (Which didn't hang around long) except for one bottle, which I capped and set on the bar, not in the dark or anything. No direct sunlight, but indirect and all the normal room lights. So for nearly 6 months, it's been sitting at room temperature. I just uncapped it and poured it into a glass. Sweet and delicious! Seems to be no harmful effects at all.

Maybe the sterilizing had something to do with it, but honestly, the stuff that went months in the bucket un-sterilized could have turned into any science experiment they wished. So, not sure how they make rice vinegar, but apparently I'm no good at that.

 

[OG_IBU_Bunghole]

I eat goji berries all the time (for those antioxidants and probably a bunch of stuff that scientists have yet to identify). I buy them in both dried and powdered form at the local healthy food type grocery store and put them in smoothies. I seem to recall an argument against putting fruit in with the rice. I'm curious to see how the goji berry / rice ferment goes.

 

[Leadgolem]

I've harvested all of my rice wine batches at 21 days and eaten the batches for intended for eating after 3 days. To clarify, I'm trying to make the fermentation time the dependent variable to see the difference. Some folks here have regularly gone 4 weeks and even accidentally accidentally gone months and a grocer at one of my yeast balls sources implied that you can let the ferment go for years to produce a radically different beverage.

After further pondering I'm thinking I'll go 3 & 4 to see that difference... then let the other two jars go to 6 and 12 for outliers to our tried and true process.

This should be an interesting experiment. Please let us know how things come out.

A while back, you may or may not remember me posting that I'd forgotten a couple batches of rice wine in the ferment buckets for several months, and the wine turned out excellent.

Well, for probably at least 2 months before that, I had a batch of RYR wine that I sterilized in hot water for 20 minutes, then capped. I put it all in the fridge (Which didn't hang around long) except for one bottle, which I capped and set on the bar, not in the dark or anything. No direct sunlight, but indirect and all the normal room lights. So for nearly 6 months, it's been sitting at room temperature. I just uncapped it and poured it into a glass. Sweet and delicious! Seems to be no harmful effects at all.

Maybe the sterilizing had something to do with it, but honestly, the stuff that went months in the bucket un-sterilized could have turned into any science experiment they wished. So, not sure how they make rice vinegar, but apparently I'm no good at that.

I had about 12 oz of harvested rice wine I left in a container with just a piece of cloth over it. The idea being to make rice wine vinegar. I forgot about it for several months, and when I checked on it, it had completely evaporated. Leaving an extremely stubborn dark brown gum in the bottom of the jar. I did not taste it, I washed it out of the jar.

At some point I'll try making rice wine vinegar again, after I've learned more about the process though.

 

[trbig]

I forgot about it for several months, and when I checked on it, it had completely evaporated. Leaving an extremely stubborn dark brown gum in the bottom of the jar. I did not taste it, I washed it out of the jar.

Chicken!

 

[Leadgolem]

Chicken!

Yes, I like chicken too. Especially when served with sesame sauce on rice.

 

[dgr]

trbig,
I don't know how you could have any of this stuff sitting around for months.

LG, Leave some cut up fruit laying around until you get some fruit flies and inoculate your wine with them. From a picture I saw on another board, it should look like a little oil slick spreading out from the fly body. This guy goes into some great detail on making, testing percentage and diluting his ACV to store strength. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=265435

 

[trbig]

trbig,
I don't know how you could have any of this stuff sitting around for months.

Lots and lots of other stuff to drink. 15 cases of beer made up, 6 gallons of mead, (Minus one bottle.. he he.. ) and assorted rice wines in process. I never wait until something is gone before making more, so it's not too tough.

I was attempting to try my first small batch in a plastic gallon container I bought from Wally World. I chopped up some dried mango and threw it in there, then dumped the first batch of hot steamed rice onto the mango to kill any yeast/mold... and the container melted.


Off to Wally World to buy something in glass.. I'm wanting a 6 cup batch with mango in it, and a 6 cup batch with the Goji berries in it. I'm also going to try taking 2 yeast balls in a cup of water, mixing them until it's all liquid, then pour that cup of water/yeast/mold over the rice to inocculate everything... shake it all around a bit instead of trying to mix powder in with all the rice. PITA. My Chinese friend says they add a lot of water.. like a gallon to a 5 gallon batch after the rice is cooked and in the bucket. Hopefully these won't sour on me. Small batches, so no huge loss.

 

[jak1010]

So I went to look in my RYR+Angel batch today and I got a bit of a surprise. It must be in "high krausen" right now. While it is still mostly solids, the apparent volume of the rice has climbed to the shoulders of the jar because there is so much off-gassing going on. I gave it a bit of a shake (rapid turns clockwise and counter-clockwise) and a bunch of bubbles began escaping. This fermentation is much more vigorous than my last two batches. It has to be the RYR, the entire mass is a pink/red color and it doesn't look like the Angel has proliferated nearly as much. I'm thinking this may be a much shorter run than the usual 21 days.

How did this batch turn out?

 

[Leadgolem]

LG, Leave some cut up fruit laying around until you get some fruit flies and inoculate your wine with them. From a picture I saw on another board, it should look like a little oil slick spreading out from the fly body. This guy goes into some great detail on making, testing percentage and diluting his ACV to store strength. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=265435

Bookmarked. I do believe I will try this method. Though the idea of getting fruit flies in the brew on purpose seems an odd one.

 

[trbig]

Got my two 6 cup batches going. I let them cool over night, then added two yeast balls a piece into them by pulverizing them in a coffee grinder, then adding to a half cup of water, then dump across the top of the rice, then adding another half cup to rinse the measuring cup. I tried to just add two un-crushed yeast balls directly to the water, thinking they'd crumble when wet. Failed experiment.

My theory on glass not melting from hot rice did work out though.. lol. I bought these two gallon sized Ball jars at Wally World. I was afraid they wouldn't seal very well since the lid slides right off the gasket, but washing them out, they were water tight, but they wouldn't hold any pressure. I just drilled a hole in the top of each and put a rubber grommet for an air lock in them. Mango on the right and a 5 oz bag of the Goji berries on the left.










I got my ARL in the mail, Jack, thank you very much. I'm wanting to try it on at least a 12 cup batch, but the current one won't quit making alcohol. It's been @ 4 1/2 weeks now and it's still bubbling a couple times a minute out of the airlock.