Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[aiptasia]

I found some arborio rice last night at Fresh Market, but it was on sale for $4 a pound. Thought that was a little steep. Guess I will have to keep looking. Likely could find it cheaper online in quantity.

Just curious why the obsession with Arborio rice? From what I recall, it's very high in fats and proteins which isn't so hot for rice wine brewing. If you want a similar fat little short grained rice, look for Koda Farms Sho Chuku Bai rice in Asian markets. Koda farms Kokuho Rose (Cali Rose) medium grained sushi rice is also pretty decent.

Whatever rice you pick, rinse the heck out of it in cold water until the water is clear when the rice is stirred. This gets all of the dust, broken rice particles and artificial coating that a lot of rice farms add to their rice to keep it bright white. IME, it takes about five rinses in a large pot to do that.

 

[TBBrewer]

Just curious why the obsession with Arborio rice? From what I recall, it's very high in fats and proteins which isn't so hot for rice wine brewing. If you want a similar fat little short grained rice, look for Koda Farms Sho Chuku Bai rice in Asian markets. Koda farms Kokuho Rose (Cali Rose) medium grained sushi rice is also pretty decent.

Whatever rice you pick, rinse the heck out of it in cold water until the water is clear when the rice is stirred. This gets all of the dust, broken rice particles and artificial coating that a lot of rice farms add to their rice to keep it bright white. IME, it takes about five rinses in a large pot to do that.

The arborio rice has been the best flavored batch to date. Not one hint of sour or alcohol hotness. Just sweet goodness. I have tried all the other rices with various yeasts and nothing compares.

Thanks for the comparison pics.

 

[m3n00b]

FWIW, I saw a HUGE bag (I'm thinking 20#) of Thai Jasmine Rice at Costco the other day. don't recall how much it was, mostly surprised to see such a large bag of rice.

I got 50# of Thai Jasmine rice from the local Asian market for $20. Crazy.

 

[TBBrewer]

I got 50# of Thai Jasmine rice from the local Asian market for $20. Crazy.

Thats really good. Usually averages around a buck a pound around here, even in 25# bags.

 

[jak1010]

The arborio rice has been the best flavored batch to date. Not one hint of sour or alcohol hotness. Just sweet goodness. I have tried all the other rices with various yeasts and nothing compares.

Thanks for the comparison pics.

TBB: have you tried making a batch with Angel Rice Leaven?

 

[TBBrewer]

TBB: have you tried making a batch with Angel Rice Leaven?

I have not, but have seen you guys talking about it. I have not seen it in my local markets, but have been keeping my eye out. I have been beyond happy with the Vietnamese yeast balls, but would be happy to experiment with some of that. You are selling it on eBay aren't you?

 

[TeufelHundenM198]

My batch finished today!!!!!

5lbs of rice netted about 2250ml of the stuff. It's MUCH more interesting than I was expecting... I was thinking I might have to choke it down or flavor it, but my wife and I are really happy with it. My pigs are also quite fond of the leftover fermented rice.

 

[jak1010]

I am. I've experimented with different types of rice and yeasts. I've gotten mixed results with sweet, tart, sour etc. My preference is sweet and with the ARL, I've tried different types of rice and all ended sweet. Never sour or tart.

 

[elkshadow]

I have not, but have seen you guys talking about it. I have not seen it in my local markets, but have been keeping my eye out. I have been beyond happy with the Vietnamese yeast balls, but would be happy to experiment with some of that. You are selling it on eBay aren't you?

I'm with you on the VN balls. I snuck a "taste" of each of my identical-except-for-yeast batches and the VN is WAY more drinkable than the Chinese. The VN one will go quick when it's done.

 

[aiptasia]

I've done the Chinese yeast up until this point. I have a six cup batch going with Vietnamese and Koji. I posted those pictures to my wall on the book-of-faces and I have friends and relatives coming out of the woodwork to sample the RYR huadaou jiu. I need more big jars.

 

[TBBrewer]

I'm with you on the VN balls. I snuck a "taste" of each of my identical-except-for-yeast batches and the VN is WAY more drinkable than the Chinese. The VN one will go quick when it's done.

Yeah, it has just been so much cleaner tasting. I picked a few more packages yesterday. I did find both types of VN yeast, big and small. Both packaged by the same company, just one is red lettering and one is blue. All of my experience has been with the blue small VN yeast. If anything, I would say I have been under pitching and have had good results. The only thing I use the Chinese yeast for is if I flavor the wine as the wine by itself is a little harsh. I do not think I have tried the RYR and VN yeast yet. That will be on my list next.

 

[saramc]

I wish they made a few different micron size paper filters. The regular ones seem to clog pretty quickly. Almost wish I could do a progressively smaller mesh so it would flow better.

Not paper but look at 'ice bubble bags', loads of different micron sizes and the bags nest in each other. Amazon and eBay have a nice selection. You can clean/sanitize them just like the nylon mesh bags.

On the VN yeast balls, what ratio of the mini ones to dry rice? The mini ones are blue lettering, right? (Sitting in hubby's hospital room and I have them at home, otherwise I'd just go look at the minis)

 

[elkshadow]

Not paper but look at 'ice bubble bags', loads of different micron sizes and the bags nest in each other. Amazon and eBay have a nice selection. You can clean/sanitize them just like the nylon mesh bags.

On the VN yeast balls, what ratio of the mini ones to dry rice? The mini ones are blue lettering, right? (Sitting in hubby's hospital room and I have them at home, otherwise I'd just go look at the minis)

I used the whole package on 8 rice + 2 RYR.

 

[aiptasia]

Not paper but look at 'ice bubble bags', loads of different micron sizes and the bags nest in each other. Amazon and eBay have a nice selection. You can clean/sanitize them just like the nylon mesh bags.

On the VN yeast balls, what ratio of the mini ones to dry rice? The mini ones are blue lettering, right? (Sitting in hubby's hospital room and I have them at home, otherwise I'd just go look at the minis)

Sara, same. One full package of the blue label mini vietnamese rice balls and about half a cup of Japanese dry koji went into six cups of sho chuku bai short grain sweet rice in my last batch.

 

[TBBrewer]

Not paper but look at 'ice bubble bags', loads of different micron sizes and the bags nest in each other. Amazon and eBay have a nice selection. You can clean/sanitize them just like the nylon mesh bags.

On the VN yeast balls, what ratio of the mini ones to dry rice? The mini ones are blue lettering, right? (Sitting in hubby's hospital room and I have them at home, otherwise I'd just go look at the minis)

I will look into those. Thanks for the tip.

I have been pitching 2 of the VN small yeast per lb of rice. Yep, blue package. I picked up larger ones made by the same company, 4 per pack, with red lettering.

 

[embreedow]

Ok, so I harvested by batch with sweet rice and red rice yeast... I'm not gonna lie, it tastes pretty weird. Kind of tart and almost citrusy, with a hint of sourness. Is this how its supposed to taste, or did I just ingest something thats gonna make me sick?

 

[aiptasia]

Ok, so I harvested by batch with sweet rice and red rice yeast... I'm not gonna lie, it tastes pretty weird. Kind of tart and almost citrusy, with a hint of sourness. Is this how its supposed to taste, or did I just ingest something thats gonna make me sick?

OMG you're gonna die!

J/k.

The citrusy flavor is common to young rice wine. It might taste like mango, kiwi, star fruit or lemon-lime to a lot of people. I've found that these flavors mellow out as the wine ages. The sour notes are from acetobactir or lactobacillus which either came in from a sanitation problem or inside the yeast balls themselves. Left unchecked, they will turn the wine into vinegar.

In a link in this thread, there's a .pdf file that discusses the composition of yeast balls. They can contain any number of regional yeast, fungus and bacteria depending on which company made them. For example, some have aspergillus fungus, some have rhyzopus, some have others. The different yeasts will also bring different flavors to the rice wine, too, and there's no way to know what strains are in the yeast balls. It's whatever is local to that particular area.

You're welcome to try it again with a different type of rice ball, or you can use Japanese Koji or Chinese Rice Leavin to break down the complex rice starches (contains no yeast) into glucose, and then use a lager or ice wine-type yeast to ferment the glucose and cold ferment it at 50 degrees f.

 

[edds5p0]

OMG you're gonna die!

J/k.

The citrusy flavor is common to young rice wine. It might taste like mango, kiwi, star fruit or lemon-lime to a lot of people. I've found that these flavors mellow out as the wine ages. The sour notes are from acetobactir or lactobacillus which either came in from a sanitation problem or inside the yeast balls themselves. Left unchecked, they will turn the wine into vinegar.

In a link in this thread, there's a .pdf file that discusses the composition of yeast balls. They can contain any number of regional yeast, fungus and bacteria depending on which company made them. For example, some have aspergillus fungus, some have rhyzopus, some have others. The different yeasts will also bring different flavors to the rice wine, too, and there's no way to know what strains are in the yeast balls. It's whatever is local to that particular area.

You're welcome to try it again with a different type of rice ball, or you can use Japanese Koji or Chinese Rice Leavin to break down the complex rice starches (contains no yeast) into glucose, and then use a lager or ice wine-type yeast to ferment the glucose and cold ferment it at 50 degrees f.

Just a small correction; while Koji only hydrolyzes starch, rice leaven will both ferment and hydrolyze the starch.

 

[embreedow]

I dunno what I would do without you guys! Sorry if it was discussed before, but can I pasteurize the wine to kill the lactobacillus?

I looked back through the thread and I think I found that pasteurizing does prevent the lactobacillus from taking hold and turning it to vinegar. Next time I'm gonna try it without the RYR to see if it comes out sweeter.

 

[Leadgolem]

Just a small correction; while Koji only hydrolyzes starch, rice leaven will both ferment and hydrolyze the starch.

I haven't used rice leaven, is this certain? I thought it was essentially a powdered enzyme product?

I dunno what I would do without you guys! Sorry if it was discussed before, but can I pasteurize the wine to kill the lactobacillus?

I looked back through the thread and I think I found that pasteurizing does prevent the lactobacillus from taking hold and turning it to vinegar. Next time I'm gonna try it without the RYR to see if it comes out sweeter.

Yes. I do that all the time. Pasteurizing to 160f has no discernable effect on the flavor, though it does cause the wine to separate more rapidly.

EDIT: The RYR has actually come out with less of a tang then any of my batches without it. I think the RYR actually interferes with the acetobacter in some way.

Something you could try, if you haven't already, is powdering both the yeast balls and the RYR. My batches seem to turn out better if the desired organisms spread through the entirety of the growth medium evenly, and rapidly.

 

[trbig]

I've been away from the site for a while, but just thought I'd post some info. Back in March, (3/24/13) I made a big batch of the rice wine with some ryr.. You can see my post back on page 130 of this thread.

What I've discovered after a couple attempts, is that big batches don't seem to work out well. Not for me anyway. What's happened to me is the rice becomes a big glob of glue, basically making a big plug in the bucket, then the CO2 gas can't escape. It sits in a big bubble at the bottom and kills/deactivates the yeast.

I also made a smaller 3 gallon batch about the same time with about the same results. I opened both containers and with a spoon, added some water and popped the big CO2 bubbles, then stirred them until I had a fairly wet consistency, then covered them back up... and completely forgot about them. Tonight, I needed the ferment bins, so I went to just dump the rice stuff out, expecting some foul smelling science experiment.. only in both bins, I had some really nice tasting and very strong wine.

So, for 4 months, this stuff sat on the trub.. or whatever you want to call it, and there were no ill effects. If anything, it got better. Best I've tasted from what I've made anyway. Just a heads up. I'll filter it better soon. The sediments drop out pretty readily.

 

[Leadgolem]

I've been away from the site for a while, but just thought I'd post some info. Back in March, (3/24/13) I made a big batch of the rice wine with some ryr.. You can see my post back on page 130 of this thread.

What I've discovered after a couple attempts, is that big batches don't seem to work out well. Not for me anyway. What's happened to me is the rice becomes a big glob of glue, basically making a big plug in the bucket, then the CO2 gas can't escape. It sits in a big bubble at the bottom and kills/deactivates the yeast.

I also made a smaller 3 gallon batch about the same time with about the same results. I opened both containers and with a spoon, added some water and popped the big CO2 bubbles, then stirred them until I had a fairly wet consistency, then covered them back up... and completely forgot about them. Tonight, I needed the ferment bins, so I went to just dump the rice stuff out, expecting some foul smelling science experiment.. only in both bins, I had some really nice tasting and very strong wine.

So, for 4 months, this stuff sat on the trub.. or whatever you want to call it, and there were no ill effects. If anything, it got better. Best I've tasted from what I've made anyway. Just a heads up. I'll filter it better soon. The sediments drop out pretty readily.

Good to know. Interesting it didn't turn to vinegar on you. I would have expected it to.

You can avoid the starch "cap" by rolling the inoculated rice into 1 to 1 1/2 inch balls. That way the co2 can escape between them while the saccharification continues. Something I picked up from reading between the lines on a couple of red rice wine recipes with my third large batch.

 

[trbig]

I might try that..

I haven't been making any more of the rice wine because of the problems, and what product I did get, I wasn't that fond of the flavor. Really impressed with this stuff though. I've still got lots of supplies... 20lbs of rice, 9 lbs of RYR, several bags of the yeast balls. I even bought a coffee grinder just for the yeast balls so I quit using the one I use for my coffee. lol. So I might as well make up another batch. I put my first batch of mead on last night in the 7 gallon bucket, but I've still got the 3.5 gallon one.

Since I've been gone so long, has there ever been a general consensus as to the rice/yeast ball ratio? I pulverize the RYR in the coffee grinder along with the yeast balls.

While I enjoy the taste of the non-ryr wine, the one made with it is much sweeter and fruitier. Do you think it's a mental thing? Red= fruit punch.. right? lol. How would you get a fruit taste from red mold? Not sure how, but it does. Oh.. and the wine from the pic cleared up a lot after sitting in the fridge all night.

 

[aiptasia]

No consensus yet. Different people use different ratios. I think I tend to overpitch on the yeast balls in my batches but it works for me. For the chinese yeast balls, which are a large gumball size, I crush one per 3 cups rice. For the blue packets of vietnamese yeast balls (about the size of a mento), I crush up half a pack for 3 cups rice, so that's about six of them. Again, that's my ratio. Others may differ. YMMV.

 

[Whippy]

I put my first batch together 9 days ago and am not getting ANY liquid. I opened the jar and took a whiff and it smells great, like it is fermenting, but I'm not getting any wine here. Should I spray mist some water into the jar or something? I'm worried the rice is just going to dry out without giving off any wine. It seems from this thread that folks are seeing progress within only a couple days in most cases.

I used chinese sweet rice (short grain) and chinese yeast balls. The jar has mostly been sitting at around 74-78F temperature, but I did move it into the warmer atmosphere of the garage overnight a couple of evenings.

..any suggestions? Should I just dump this and try again another time, or rather wait it out?

 

[dgr]

whippy,
I would let it ride. You may be happily surprised. The rice could be soaking up the liquids right now.

 

[edds5p0]

I haven't used rice leaven, is this certain? I thought it was essentially a powdered enzyme product?

Yes. I do that all the time. Pasteurizing to 160f has no discernable effect on the flavor, though it does cause the wine to separate more rapidly.

EDIT: The RYR has actually come out with less of a tang then any of my batches without it. I think the RYR actually interferes with the acetobacter in some way.

Something you could try, if you haven't already, is powdering both the yeast balls and the RYR. My batches seem to turn out better if the desired organisms spread through the entirety of the growth medium evenly, and rapidly.

I have made some tasty batches using ARL alone. I believe it is actually a. Oryzae.

 

[Leadgolem]

I might try that..

I haven't been making any more of the rice wine because of the problems, and what product I did get, I wasn't that fond of the flavor. Really impressed with this stuff though. I've still got lots of supplies... 20lbs of rice, 9 lbs of RYR, several bags of the yeast balls. I even bought a coffee grinder just for the yeast balls so I quit using the one I use for my coffee. lol. So I might as well make up another batch. I put my first batch of mead on last night in the 7 gallon bucket, but I've still got the 3.5 gallon one.

Since I've been gone so long, has there ever been a general consensus as to the rice/yeast ball ratio? I pulverize the RYR in the coffee grinder along with the yeast balls.

While I enjoy the taste of the non-ryr wine, the one made with it is much sweeter and fruitier. Do you think it's a mental thing? Red= fruit punch.. right? lol. How would you get a fruit taste from red mold? Not sure how, but it does. Oh.. and the wine from the pic cleared up a lot after sitting in the fridge all night.

The red being fruitier isn't your imagination. Every batch of red rice wine I've made has been much fruitier then the white rice wine. They have been sweeter too, though not all to the same degree.

If you are getting more particulates then you would like, try adding 1/8 tsp of yeast nutrient per 1 1/2 cups of dry rice to the water you are cooking the rice in. A recent experiment I ran indicates that the yeast nutrient helps reduce the particulates in the final product by more then 50%. I'm not sure why, but it did. The experiment is a fairly small sample to be sure, but with a result that dramatic I think it's a good bet that was the difference.

I have made some tasty batches using ARL alone. I believe it is actually a. Oryzae.

Interesting. Wouldn't a product that is mainly aspergillus oryzae still saccharify only, without actually fermenting the sugar that resulted?

 

[sonofgrok]

Angel rice leaven = rhizopus oryzae and rice flour. Although it is a microbial culture of multiple organisms, I am pretty sure the bulk of the yeast is saccharomyces bayanus as that is what is used in all of the Angel pure yeast products.

 

[aiptasia]

The red being fruitier isn't your imagination. Every batch of red rice wine I've made has been much fruitier then the white rice wine. They have been sweeter too, though not all to the same degree.

That's interesting. I've found the opposite to be true. My RYR batches are dryer and have more of an earthy, rice flavor to them than my pure white rice batches. Are you letting them ferment out the full three weeks or pressing sooner?

Interesting. Wouldn't a product that is mainly aspergillus oryzae still saccharify only, without actually fermenting the sugar that resulted?

If it were pure A. oryzae (aka, Koji fungus), then yes. It would only convert the rice into glucose soup. Since rice brewing is a dual fermentation process, you would need a yeast strain to ferment the glucose. If you wanted greater control over the yeast strains, i'd suggest using koji rice (rice infected with A. oryzae) and a hand picked strain of yeast. The yeast you'd pick would be based on the characteristics of that yeast (flavor profile), preferred fermentation temperature (off-flavor control) and attenuation (sweet/dry). There's a lot of room to pioneer here, because I don't think anyone is actively studying rice wine & yeast characteristics in the states. There may be some Asian studies that have covered this territory, but whom to contact, where to look and the need for possible translation makes it a little daunting to explore.

Japanese Sake producers already use this method but typically are constrained by their Sake council to using one of about ten strains of yeast. Their yeasts are typically cold fermenting lager yeasts that produce low acid content rice wine.

Angel rice leaven = rhizopus oryzae and rice flour. Although it is a microbial culture of multiple organisms, I am pretty sure the bulk of the yeast is saccharomyces bayanus as that is what is used in all of the Angel pure yeast products.

That's good to know. The more I get into rice wine, the more interested I get in the ingredients and organisms i'm working with.