Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[aiptasia]

Leadgolem,

I had that same growth on both batches of my recent Red Yeast Rice + Sushi Rice + Yeast balls. I'm willing to bet it is a fungus and that it's probably Aspergillus or Rhyzopus from the yeast balls. I was reading in that historical Chinese rice wine .pdf that both types of fungus are common in regional variations of yeast balls and will break down rice starch into alpha amylase and beta gluconase. In essence, they're creating a double fermentation environment and feeding the yeasts very similar to the way koji breaks down sake for sake yeast.

 

[jak1010]

So Leadgolem do you have a favorite from that last test batch? And to date?
I just shake my head unable to believe it is so simple. I think I will start my batch of Angel Rice Leaven this week, it is time.

OKAY!!! I'm super excited to hear your feedback on the Angel Rice Leaven.

I've done a few experiments (not as much as Leadgolem) and have been pleased with all of them.

ps. If you need more, you know where to go. I've got plenty more where that came from. : )

 

[Leadgolem]

So Leadgolem do you have a favorite from that last test batch? And to date?
I just shake my head unable to believe it is so simple. I think I will start my batch of Angel Rice Leaven this week, it is time.

Absolutely. The white rice wine with yeast nutrient, batch 7. I like the way the vanilla flavor an aroma was more prominent then I've seen in previous batches. It's also got a lower level of particulates then is typical. My comment on it being on the thin side is more a comment on the level of particulates then anything else. It's actually my overall favorite as well.

Leadgolem,

I had that same growth on both batches of my recent Red Yeast Rice + Sushi Rice + Yeast balls. I'm willing to bet it is a fungus and that it's probably Aspergillus or Rhyzopus from the yeast balls. I was reading in that historical Chinese rice wine .pdf that both types of fungus are common in regional variations of yeast balls and will break down rice starch into alpha amylase and beta gluconase. In essence, they're creating a double fermentation environment and feeding the yeasts very similar to the way koji breaks down sake for sake yeast.

Oh, I think you are right about that. I've just never had it be visible on the red rice wine before. Since that is also the first batch of red rice wine I've done with yeast nutrient, I thought it was worth noting.

 

[embreedow]

Ok, so instead of trying anything with the spiced vietnamese yeast, I just went to a different Asian supermarket. It was huge! there are a few in the orlando area but this one I liked the best. It's called 1st oriental supermarket for anyone in the Orlando area.
I did Sarah's original recipe with the RYR and yeast and I used sweet rice. The only thing is, I used a water to rice ratio of .5-.75 to one. So i didn't use as much water as everyone else. I am wondering if this will still work and ferment?
Also, I let my rice cool in the fridge because I had to run to class. Will this inhibit the process at all?

 

[sonofgrok]

Ok, so instead of trying anything with the spiced vietnamese yeast, I just went to a different Asian supermarket. It was huge! there are a few in the orlando area but this one I liked the best. It's called 1st oriental supermarket for anyone in the Orlando area.
I did Sarah's original recipe with the RYR and yeast and I used sweet rice. The only thing is, I used a water to rice ratio of .5-.75 to one. So i didn't use as much water as everyone else. I am wondering if this will still work and ferment?
Also, I let my rice cool in the fridge because I had to run to class. Will this inhibit the process at all?

The water may or may not be a problem. As long as it is not TOO dry, you should get at least some wine.

The refrigerator is no problem. I have left rice in the fridge for a week and then made wine with it.

 

[aiptasia]

Agreed. It's a little dry. Unless you let the rice pre-soak for an hour (or overnight in the fridge), I use 1.25:1 ratio of rice to water. You might not notice much liquid until you press the rice lees in about three weeks time.

 

[brewsmedic]

Made it on June 26 and still don't see the floating rice but a rather gelationus rice blob that is obviously full of liguid but not at all separated. Let it sit or is that a sign to cut ones losses?

 

[embreedow]

I looked earlier today and it's lookin good. I can already tell it is definitely starting to ferment. I'll post in about 3 weeks with the results to show everybody the yield with rice that uses a little less water.

 

[Leadgolem]

Made it on June 26 and still don't see the floating rice but a rather gelationus rice blob that is obviously full of liguid but not at all separated. Let it sit or is that a sign to cut ones losses?

You can't always tell. Sometimes the rice liquefies from the inside out and doesn't fall apart until you squeeze it a little and break the rice open. You might as well give it the full three weeks, then see what you get out of it. You should have liquid in the jar between the rice at this point though.

Out of around 16 batches I've had 2 do that. They didn't have anything in common, so I'm not sure why it happens.

 

[aiptasia]

Made it on June 26 and still don't see the floating rice but a rather gelationus rice blob that is obviously full of liguid but not at all separated. Let it sit or is that a sign to cut ones losses?

Agreed. My last two RYR batches didn't show any signs of liquefying until the final week. The blob of rice is likely full of liquid. It's amazing how much fluid you can squeeze out of the lees at the end.

 

[aiptasia]

I had a look at my RYR rice wine harvested and pasteurized just a few days ago and was shocked at how much separation and clearing there was on this batch so soon. I added a little more bentonite (1/4 cup hot water, 3/4 tsp bentonite, stirred) this time and stirred it in good, then pasteurized the 32 ounce bottle and shook up the bottle for 30 seconds after pasteurizing to make sure that bentonite got well mixed into everything while it was all very hot.

Into my fridge it went for chilling. I think that was the key, as the solids have settled out amazingly quickly. The rice wine's color was absolutely clear with a rose pink tinge. It has a floral, earthy alcohol smell and much more of a dry mellow sake taste. I'm very impressed by this batch and all I can say is....

 

[elkshadow]

I had a look at my RYR rice wine harvested and pasteurized just a few days ago and was shocked at how much separation and clearing there was on this batch so soon. I added a little more bentonite (1/4 cup hot water, 3/4 tsp bentonite, stirred) this time and stirred it in good, then pasteurized the 32 ounce bottle and shook up the bottle for 30 seconds after pasteurizing to make sure that bentonite got well mixed into everything while it was all very hot.

Into my fridge it went for chilling. I think that was the key, as the solids have settled out amazingly quickly. The rice wine's color was absolutely clear with a rose pink tinge. It has a floral, earthy alcohol smell and much more of a dry mellow sake taste. I'm very impressed by this batch and all I can say is....

Same here. Not on the saparation but the taste is way better than plain rice wth no RYR. My RYR batch was the best so far. I harvested one small jar and I have a big jar to do also. The 9th was the magic 3 week point but I've been busy so maybe today. Very tasty. I used a 6 to 1 ration Rice:RYR.

 

[aiptasia]

Same here. Not on the saparation but the taste is way better than plain rice wth no RYR. My RYR batch was the best so far. I harvested one small jar and I have a big jar to do also. The 9th was the magic 3 week point but I've been busy so maybe today. Very tasty. I used a 6 to 1 ration Rice:RYR.

I did 2:1 calirose to RYR + 1 small crushed yeast ball.

 

[BrewFrick]

Love this stuff. Did one batch so far and pulled at the 14 day mark. Just like everyone said, nice and sweet with that rice taste still there a bit and the alcohol taste. And wow, lots of liquid stayed in the rice gunk until pressed.

Question I had not seen on here was freeze-jackin' this stuff. Has anyone tried to freeze concentrate it yet?

 

[aiptasia]

Yes, the Chinese have. The references i've read about it say that it creates an "ice wine" style of concentrated jiu.

 

[TBBrewer]

I finished up my batch with the pink sweet rice. This was 1lb of rice with 1:1.5 ratio using 2 small Vietnamese yeast balls fermented at an average of 75 degrees in the dark. The flavor is amazing. It is very similar to the arborio rice batch I did. The taste is very vanilla, slightly fruity, walnut, and not hot or boozy like the other batches have been. I have been getting much better wine from the Vietnamese yeast rather than the Chinese yeast. We harvested this batch while brewing some beer. While doing our taste test, my buddy suggested aging this one on some cocoa nibs. That would really compliment this batch.

 

[elkshadow]

I have been getting much better wine from the Vietnamese yeast rather than the Chinese yeast.

I picked up some of the VN balls yesterday. I haven't found arborio at a price I like so I'm going with the same Jasmine/RYR ratio for these next ones.

My doubts about its strength were settled the other night. I had two shaker glasses full with ice in them the other night and I was so drunk I couldn't sleep. I probably had 16 oz of it and I haven't been drinking as much as I did in winter and I was TANKED.

 

[Tinhorn]

Which yeast is which the red pakaged bigger ones are the Chinese and the smaller blue ones are the Vietnamese? I have been

 

[Tinhorn]

Which yeast is which the red pakaged bigger ones are the Chinese and the smaller blue ones are the Vietnamese? I have been

Using the red ones

Premature posting!! Story of my life lol

 

[elkshadow]

That's correct. The VN ones say BA NAM CALI on them.

I also saw something else that looked like rectangles of yeast and there were no english words printed on them. They were right next to the other ones on the shelf.

Maybe Leadgolem knows what there are since we visit the same store. They are to the far left of the other ones on the shelf.

Thinking about doing a bucket batch. I have 3.5 gallon buckets for my beer making.

 

[Tinhorn]

Cool thanks I have any seen the Chinese one at the Asian store I go to

 

[Leadgolem]

That's correct. The VN ones say BA NAM CALI on them.

I also saw something else that looked like rectangles of yeast and there were no english words printed on them. They were right next to the other ones on the shelf.

Maybe Leadgolem knows what there are since we visit the same store. They are to the far left of the other ones on the shelf.

Thinking about doing a bucket batch. I have 3.5 gallon buckets for my beer making.

I don't remember the rectangle things you're talking about. I'll keep an eye out next time I go to that store.

 

[Leadgolem]

I just tasted that bottle of rice wine I was planning on trying again on the 4th. Here are the original tasting notes:

Moderately sweet, moderately tangy, nice mouth feel, not to thick, very stongly alcoholic. Not bad, but I think I would serve it chilled to take the edge off the tang and the alcohol.

Here's the same bottle after 3 months:

Aroma, sweet and rice. Not much aroma to speak of actually. Tart and citrus flavor. Nicely so, though on the high end of the good tang scale. Very smooth. Nice mouth feel, slight tingle on the tongue. No apparent alcohol flavor. Nice warmth going down though.

I remember this bottle also have a slightly unpleasant "mushroomy" aroma and aftertaste. When I wrote the original notes I thought that was normal as most of my rice wine batches had some level of the same. That flavor and aroma has disappeared.

 

[WesleyS]

I'm definitely happier with the bottles of aged rice wine than the young wine. It definitely smooths out alot even after just a couple months.

 

[elkshadow]

I don't remember the rectangle things you're talking about. I'll keep an eye out next time I go to that store.

They come like 4 in a package and most of the packages had crumbled. I could only tell they were rectangles in one of the packages in the whole bin. Most of them were crushed and breaking into powder. No English on them at all. Good luck asking somebody there what they are.

Anyway, I just did a big batch today with the Vietnamese balls. I used 8 cups rice and 2 cups RYR and almost the whole package of yeast balls which says it's .4 oz. on the package.

Tomorrow I'm doing the same thing except with the Chinese balls to compare them side by side in a few weeks. I'll post the results.

I'm also considering blending some of it with some sweet wine like a reisling or muscat cannelli and seeing how that is.

 

[aiptasia]

I remember this bottle also have a slightly unpleasant "mushroomy" aroma and aftertaste. When I wrote the original notes I thought that was normal as most of my rice wine batches had some level of the same. That flavor and aroma has disappeared.

That would probably be flavors from the aspergillus, rhyzopus or whichever other fungus did the work of breaking down the starches into simple sugars. Umami flavors like this are very common in young sake and rice wine and do tend to mellow a little with age.

I'm definitely happier with the bottles of aged rice wine than the young wine. It definitely smooths out alot even after just a couple months.

Most sake breweries are letting theirs age from six months to a year. I would be very curious to sample some young commercial sake vs. aged sake during a brewery tour. If i'm ever lucky enough to tour Japan, i'd like to do that.

 

[TBBrewer]

So I ended up at a buddies party after going to a homebrew club meeting yesterday. He had his Korean buddy over that had family that just returned from Korea. He shared these soju with us. I had never had these, but they were good once mixed. They tasted essentially like watered down vodka. Anybody have any experience with these or making these? It does appear to be a distilled product that is charcoal filtered.

 

[aiptasia]

I found some new dried yeast balls at a Vietnamese Asian market and found some packets of dried yeast for $.75 cents each. Looks like they're packaged 12 to a sealed vac pack and the cakes are about the size of a dime and as round as a mentos mint. The label says, "Men Ruou (Lam Com Ruou). Hieu Ba Nam Gia Dinh. Dried Yeast. Net Wt. 12 pcs, Distributor: IHA Beverage, Commerce, CA."

 

[aiptasia]

So I ended up at a buddies party after going to a homebrew club meeting yesterday. He had his Korean buddy over that had family that just returned from Korea. He shared these soju with us. I had never had these, but they were good once mixed. They tasted essentially like watered down vodka. Anybody have any experience with these or making these? It does appear to be a distilled product that is charcoal filtered.

Looks awesome. I'd love to try something like that but i'm finding with a lot of Asian stores around my town, they don't really stock alcohol per se. The one exception to that is our Japanese market Circle Japan.

I've read a good bit in Sake:USA where Japanese are fond of using powdered GAC (granule activated carbon) to remove yellowing compounds for crystal clear Sake. The problem with that is the GAC also removes some organic flavor compounds, which modifies the character of the Sake in negative ways. Alcohol is one of the compounds that GAC will also absorb, so if you used it in your own jiu, I wouldn't use it more than once on any batch. There is even a style of black sake that leaves the powdered GAC in the liquid. Considering the absorption powers of carbon, it'd probably be good for absorbing gas as well as alcohol in your stomach. FYI, GAC is completely safe for your insides. Hospitals use it to absorb toxins people might've ingested (illegal drugs, poisons, etc.).

One of my crossover hobbies is aquaria. The Wife and I have had aquariums since we were both children and have had upwards of 30 tanks going in the house at one time. We've paired our addictions back to just two tanks at the moment but we have a lot of filtration and liquid pump experience which lends itself well to brewing.

If I were doing larger batches of jiu, say five to ten gallons at a time, I would probably invest in one of these: http://tinyurl.com/nv383nl

This is a hang-on canister filter that has interchangeable filters. The first filter is a fine mesh 1 micron pleated filter that polishes liquids and filters finer and finer particles as it starts to clog and slow down. What this means is, the dirtier it gets, the finer it will filter particles from the water. With a flow rate of 250 gallons per hour, it has plenty of push and is pressure resistant no matter how clogged the pleated filter gets. Also, after the liquid is polished and you remove the filter, you can simply remove it and rinse it in your sink to get all of the rice solids out of the pleats.

The second filter that comes with it is a chemical filter, which is a basket that sits inside the unit that you can fill with chemical media such as GAC (it even comes with a small box of GAC) to remove very fine organic molecules and coloring compounds.

The filter nozzles are also attachable to tubing at any custom length you can cut up to 20 feet. You can pump sanitizers like starsan through it with the micron filter in it but I wouldn't use sanitizer with the GAC chamber in it as the GAC will absorb the sanitizer, especially idophor. If it were me, i'd probably just use the micron filter and skip the GAC filtration unless you really had to make crystal clear sake for some odd reason.

 

[jak1010]

Someone buying from me on eBay asked about the Yeast Balls, the Angel Rice Leaven and the Red Yeast Rice...wanted to know which works better.

In my experience, both the Dried Yeast Balls and the ARL work and each make a different but great tasting wines. (On a side note, when making this rice wine, I usually snack on the rice on about day 3 or 4 and I prefer the taste of the rice with the ARL. Just a but sweeter.)

The only thing I haven't tried is a batch of Red Yeast Rice with the ARL.

I'm looking for feedback from anyone else on the difference in taste between yeast balls and ARL.

Also, has anyone tried a batch with the ARL and RYR?