Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[bottlebomber]

Ok, so evidently glycyrrhizae is Chinese licorice.

 

[wooda2008]

I think it's probably from using this super gooey sweet rice. It turned out much better than expected, it was pretty much a big pile of mush when I started it.

BB, I had the same result from my thai jamine. I know for a fact i overcooked the rice at the beginning, making a mush blob.

I'm so frustrated right now, I found a nice glass jar, rice, cheese cloth but no yeast balls. Why is this frustrating? Because I live in one of the most densely asian populated cites in North America! I went to 3 different asian groceries and two big supermarkets and everyone I asked looked at me like I had a third eye on my forehead. No one had ever heard about them, and I got cross eyed looking.

Well I just had to vent as SHMBO just rolled her eyes when I told her that I wanted to embark on yet another new hobby involving making alcohol lol.

BlackPriest, If you absolutely can't find the yeast balls, I can mail you some. the closest asian market i could find that carried them is a 4 hour drive from me, so i ended up buying 1kg from the site Saramc linked to. Even with the crazy long shelf life, i will never be able to use it all. I can send it to you if you cover shipping. the balls themselves were dirt cheap.
http://www.asiansupermarket365.com/Shanghai-Rice-Cakes-p/hshrcilj.htm

A couple questions...

The only store I could find that had the yeast balls were these...

...

As you can see, there's some added ingredients. Garlic? *Shudder*. lol. Anyone else ran into this? I may have to order some online if this rice wine thing is to my liking. These were @ $1.50 for 4. I see they should be cheaper, but this should get me started to see if I like it.

Also.. the red yeast rice. The oriental store didn't have any, but the local Health Food store says they carry it. I plan on getting some just pulverizing it and the yeast balls in a coffee grinder. My first batch I have soaking is going to be 12 cups dry rice. I used 6 cups sweet glutinous rice and 6 cups of the jasmine rice. Rinsed it... but now how much red yeast rice to add to the mix?

I plan on using 12 yeast balls. (1 per cup of rice) And what's the deal with this red yeast rice? Does it have the proper yeast/molds like the Kobi that you could use just the yeast rice alone instead of the yeast balls? If I were to use a couple cups of the red yeast rice, do you add the additional water to allow for that soaking it up?

Last thing... The Jasmine rice says to use 3 1/2 cups water for 3 cups rice. The sweet rice doesn't say how much to use?? lol. The regular rice we cook around here is a 2/1 ratio.. one cup rice, two cups water. So how much water should I be using?

Sorry so many questions.
sic...
Also.. I don't have a steamer, so my plan is to cook on the stove, get it boiling and stir it constantly until most of the liquid is getting absorbed, then turning off the heat, covering it and letting it sit and steam that way for 10 or 15 minutes. Since I'm not exactly sure on the water/rice ratio, what if you put too much water, cooked it, and then just decant off the excess water before putting it in the fermenting bin? And yes.. I just plan on using a regular plastic ferment bucket I make my beers in with an air lock.

1. those yeast balls look like snacks. So far all of the successful rice balls have had ingredient lables of "rice, yeast" or just "rice". they don't look like they have "yeast" as an ingredient, and you are spending more per ball than if you overnighted them from a distributor. (maybe not, depending on where you live)

2. I would do a small test batch with just 1 ball and without your red yeast rice. you should know within the first week if it's got the critters you need.

3. you can steam rice with a spatter guard and a mixing bowl.
http://shesimmers.com/2012/08/how-to-cook-sticky-rice-the-easy-way-and-without-a-steamer.html

easy and cheap, and you won't have to worry about getting the 'perfect' water:rice ratio. you want to avoid boiling and draining the liquid because you'd be leeching valuable nutrients.

4. brew bucket is great. try not to open it too often

I'd like to extend you the same offer as BP.

 

[wooda2008]

next time I'll research first, recheck the thread for updates second, and post last...

 

[BlackPriest]

Hey guys,

Thanks for your replies, I didn't expect such great offers and help so fast. I can't remember who said it but I think your right I am asking for something which isn't translated into english very often… maybe I just have to ask for rice wine ingredients. I live in Vancouver BC.

Wooda, thanks for the offer of shipping. I'm sure I'll be able to find some as the nick name for my city is Hongcouver based on how many folks from Hong kong live here. I'll try again today and maybe get some phonetics on what it is called in Chinese, that may help others in their search too.

So my journey begins, off on my quest for the balls of yeast!

 

[TheCroc]

My first attempt smells like nail polish remover after only one week.will this go away or did I screw up?

 

[WesleyS]

My first attempt smells like nail polish remover after only one week.will this go away or did I screw up?

I don't think that sounds good. I'm a couple days past one week and mine has had a nice sweet rice and vanilla smell to it the whole time.

 

[Ostomo517]

My first attempt smells like nail polish remover after only one week.will this go away or did I screw up?

Definately doesnt sound good. What did you use and what were your procedures? What are you fermenting in?

 

[bottlebomber]

My first attempt smells like nail polish remover after only one week.will this go away or did I screw up?

Just wait it out the full 3 weeks. Mine had a definitely alcohol aroma at one week, there was plenty of other aromatics but definitely the booze.

 

[TheCroc]

Thanks for the feedback Ostomo and bottle bomber

 

[trbig]

If you can find those I would almost guarantee you will find the product we have all found.

I talked with the manager of the store.. one of the few people that actually spoke english. He said that these are what other people were using to make rice wine. They had another one next to it that was similar, but they said those were for making bread.

I went to the health food store and the red yeast rice is a no-go. What they had was pills of it in capsules. The lady said, "You could just break the caplets open and use them?" But the bottle of caplets was $34.. so I decided to pass on that. I guess I'll just try to use what I have and if it doesn't work, I'm out a whole $6 between the yeast balls and the rice.

I know I could read back through all of this and find it, but does someone have a link handy to the yeast balls they use that's a cheap enough source? Only thing I've found is from importfood.com. $4.50 for 10 of them, but didn't check shipping yet. I appreciate the offer to have some sent to me, but I'd like to find a good place to get a steady supply of them if this works out.

 

[LBussy]

Went looking for the yeast today - struck out but I found a "Red Rice Ale". Posted pics here in the beer forum: What the Heck is This?

 

[trbig]

Opened up one of the packages of yeast balls I have, and even with the other added ingredients, all I smell is yeast. We shall see. I'll keep you informed on the smell, since I won't be popping the top to look.

 

[nhamilto40]

For those having difficulty finding yeast balls locally I recommend ImportFood. My nearest asian store is a 200 mile round trip.

They ship small items via Priority Mail even though their site shows Fedex. Here is my invoice (3*10 balls).

Qty Name SKU Each Sub Total
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Dried Yeast Balls, 4 oz nrhf0401 $4.50 $13.50
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub Total $13.50
Shipping: Fedex Ground $6.75
Grand Total $20.25

 

[trbig]

Well, after pulverizing the yeast balls in the coffee grinder.. I'm confident that there is NOW WAY that those things were meant to be eaten. Not a nice smelling yeast, but yeast it is.

For those that don't have a steamer, my method seemed to work nicely. Again:

6 cups Jasmine rice
6 cups sweet Glutinous rice
12 yeast balls

In a 12 qt stainless steel pot, I initially soaked the rice for 8 hours in 14 cups of water after rinsing. As I began heating the water/rice, stirring constantly, and the rice began swelling, I would eat a little bit of the rice to test for a soft center. I ended up using 22 cups of water, and when it became tough to stir due to little water left and the water getting hot, I turned off the heat and covered with a lid. Nearly two hours later, it was still too hot to pitch the yeast. So.. the pot went into a cool water bath for @ 15 minutes, and that did the trick to cool it down. Probably should have stopped the process sooner with the water bath. I had a nice pot full of sticky gooey white stuff with nice kernels of jasmine rice embedded in it. I filled my brewing bucket with a layer, then would sprinkle yeast all over the top, then stab with a spatula over and over all over to incorporate the yeast into the rice. Then another layer, etc.. Seems like a rice ball for every cup of rice is WAY overkill on the yeast, but maybe it will help it get going quicker. Total of all the rice filled @ 2/3 of a 3 1/2 gallon brewing bucket.

Stuck a lid and an air lock on it and will check it again in 21 days. The house stays about 68 degrees, do you recommend 21 days or the full 28? Once I pull the lid off, I won't put it back on, so what's the general consensus? I'd like some wine, preferably on the sweet side, not dry.

 

[Leadgolem]

...Also.. the red yeast rice. The oriental store didn't have any, but the local Health Food store says they carry it. I plan on getting some just pulverizing it and the yeast balls in a coffee grinder...

...I went to the health food store and the red yeast rice is a no-go. What they had was pills of it in capsules. The lady said, "You could just break the caplets open and use them?" But the bottle of caplets was $34.. so I decided to pass on that. I guess I'll just try to use what I have and if it doesn't work, I'm out a whole $6 between the yeast balls and the rice...

I believe the red yeast rice that is available as a dietary supplement has been deliberately sterilized, so it probably wouldn't work.

 

[Friedclutch]

I just got my yeast balls in the mail from import food.com. They had the yeast to my door in a few days here in Sacramento. Check out this link that import food.com has.

http://importfood.com/recipes/khaomahk.html

I had already made my batch before I saw the link. I used 4 cups of sushi rice boiled like the bag says. Used 2 whole yeast balls smashed up in a 1 gallon jar. We shall see what happens!

Edit.. Note that they say to only use half a yeast ball per 4 cups of rice. I used 2 whole balls. I will report my findings. For now my batch is 1 day old and in my fermenter chamber set to 65 deg f.

 

[LBussy]

So ... I realize one of the compelling things about sonofgrok's OP was the ease with which this is created. As a Homebrewer I am very likely to make that more difficult. To that end I have been thinking:

Assumption:

1. The molds are responsible for breaking up the solids to allow the enzymes to work on the starches.
2. Once liberated from the solid matrix, the sugars will be fermented in a "normal" manner by the yeast
3. Yeast will flow from the solid pile with the liquid and be held in suspension
4. Separation from solids seems to be the part which most folks in this thread have some divergent beliefs
5. Too much moisture seems anecdotally to be a bad thing, supporting "bad" mold growth
6. If one eliminates the need to separate the liquor from solids, this whole thing would be "easier"

Hypothesis:
If the initial rice ball is held suspended over a false bottom, or even in the strainer bag from the beginning, it will facilitate later extraction and provide a more beneficial habitat for the critters: just damp for the good mold and suspended in liquid for the yeast. The liquid will continuously drop out of the solid mass, to be fermented in teh bottom area.

Of course I've not tried this yet but this sort of thread gets a guy (or gal) thinking.

 

[Ostomo517]

So ... I realize one of the compelling things about sonofgrok's OP was the ease with which this is created. As a Homebrewer I am very likely to make that more difficult. To that end I have been thinking:

Assumption:

[*]The molds are responsible for breaking up the solids to allow the enzymes to work on the starches.
[*]Once liberated from the solid matrix, the sugars will be fermented in a "normal" manner by the yeast
[*]Yeast will flow from the solid pile with the liquid and be held in suspension
[*]Separation from solids seems to be the part which most folks in this thread have some divergent beliefs
[*]Too much moisture seems anecdotally to be a bad thing, supporting "bad" mold growth
[*]If one eliminates the need to separate the liquor from solids, this whole thing would be "easier"


Hypothesis:
If the initial rice ball is held suspended over a false bottom, or even in the strainer bag from the beginning, it will facilitate later extraction and provide a more beneficial habitat for the critters: just damp for the good mold and suspended in liquid for the yeast. The liquid will continuously drop out of the solid mass, to be fermented in teh bottom area.

Of course I've not tried this yet but this sort of thread gets a guy (or gal) thinking.

Sounds to me like way more of a PITA than it should be

 

[LBussy]

Sounds to me like way more of a PITA than it should be

Right, because making beer and wine is easier than buying it.

 

[WesleyS]

It's interesting to watch how this stuff progresses. After two days, the top of the rice was coated in a white fluffy fuzz with tiny black dots in the fuzz around a few bigger chunks of yeast ball that didn't crush up all the way to powder. I'm assuming this is from the fungus/enzymes that are responsible for liquifying the rice and converting to sugar. Te liquifying continued and the only smell coming from the jars was a pleasing sweet rice, vanilla smell. There was a little sign of C02 production, but not much. Today is day 10. I checked on it and now the fuzz is gone and there are a lot of bubbles coming from the liquid in the bottom. I would say the yeast has taken over now. For the first time, now, I can smell alcohol from the jars as well. I haven't sampled any yet because I don't want to open up the jars needlessly. I'm really looking forward to trying this stuff.

 

[Tamarlane]

So ... I realize one of the compelling things about sonofgrok's OP was the ease with which this is created. As a Homebrewer I am very likely to make that more difficult. To that end I have been thinking:

Assumption:

1. The molds are responsible for breaking up the solids to allow the enzymes to work on the starches.
2. Once liberated from the solid matrix, the sugars will be fermented in a "normal" manner by the yeast
3. Yeast will flow from the solid pile with the liquid and be held in suspension
4. Separation from solids seems to be the part which most folks in this thread have some divergent beliefs
5. Too much moisture seems anecdotally to be a bad thing, supporting "bad" mold growth
6. If one eliminates the need to separate the liquor from solids, this whole thing would be "easier"

Hypothesis:
If the initial rice ball is held suspended over a false bottom, or even in the strainer bag from the beginning, it will facilitate later extraction and provide a more beneficial habitat for the critters: just damp for the good mold and suspended in liquid for the yeast. The liquid will continuously drop out of the solid mass, to be fermented in teh bottom area.

Of course I've not tried this yet but this sort of thread gets a guy (or gal) thinking.

I think the reason too much moisture is promoting mold growth is just because it dilutes the alcohol content in the early stage of fermentation, so the alcohol is not as effective in keeping mold and other unwanted critters at bay.

What you are proposing may work but I would be worried about all that partially saccharafied rice being suspended up out of the alcohol. That may lead to more rather than less risk of contamination. And not having a very advanced understanding of what is exactly taking place in this particular saccharification/fermentation process (hell I do not even know what organisms are present other than "a yeast" and "a mold") there may be more symbiotic processes going on than is assumed in your post (i.e. the mold converts the rice to sugar and the yeast ferments the sugar)

But then again this is homebrewing so go for it and post your results with pics.

 

[trbig]

So in your theory, if yeast flow from the solid down to the liquid, just sprinkle all the yeast on top and it would flow to the bottom, right? Yeast incorporated to the whole mix is what works best. Even if yeast do get washed down some into suspension, there's still plenty left attached to the rice doing their magic. Plus, the suspended yeast in the liquid have a whole surface area of the floating rice cake to attack from the bottom.

This reminds me of my last trip to my home brew store. I was talking to the lady about making some rice wine, and she said she had some Kobi yeast for making Saki. The yeast was $10, and came with a pamphlet of pages and pages of directions.

We can do it the really easy way... or make it way harder and more complicated. Whichever you're most comfortable with, I suggest that's how you should work this out. I've had beer that someone threw into a bucket with some yeast, no stirring, no boiling, no one-step or Star-San, draped a rag on top and secured with some rubber bands that came out EXCELLENT. I've had beers made by someone that would have made a rocket scientist proud.. testing and correcting for PH levels, de-ionized water, exacting temps, etc... and tasted like Pepe' Le'Pew roadkill.

I'm lazy and vote for the easy way if it works.

 

[Ostomo517]

Right, because making beer and wine is easier than buying it.

Being a experienced brewer obviously I know that.

So in your theory, if yeast flow from the solid down to the liquid, just sprinkle all the yeast on top and it would flow to the bottom, right? Yeast incorporated to the whole mix is what works best. Even if yeast do get washed down some into suspension, there's still plenty left attached to the rice doing their magic. Plus, the suspended yeast in the liquid have a whole surface area of the floating rice cake to attack from the bottom.

This reminds me of my last trip to my home brew store. I was talking to the lady about making some rice wine, and she said she had some Kobi yeast for making Saki. The yeast was $10, and came with a pamphlet of pages and pages of directions.

We can do it the really easy way... or make it way harder and more complicated. Whichever you're most comfortable with, I suggest that's how you should work this out. I've had beer that someone threw into a bucket with some yeast, no stirring, no boiling, no one-step or Star-San, draped a rag on top and secured with some rubber bands that came out EXCELLENT. I've had beers made by someone that would have made a rocket scientist proud.. testing and correcting for PH levels, de-ionized water, exacting temps, etc... and tasted like Pepe' Le'Pew roadkill.

I'm lazy and vote for the easy way if it works.

^^^^ This is more what I was trying to say

 

[LBussy]

I get that ... just wondering, ya know? You can't tell me you don't end up thinking, daydreaming, how everything could be? That you would wave your hand over raw ingredients and that nude wood nymphs would just whir around and make perfect, sparkling, refreshing, hangover-less alcoholic beverages? ... or was that an over-share?

 

[trbig]

Just as long as MY wood nymphs aren't two-timing me to be YOUR wood nymphs also...

 

[LBussy]

Yeah but if our wood nymphs just , you know, got together and kissed a little?

 

[bottlebomber]

I get that ... just wondering, ya know? You can't tell me you don't end up thinking, daydreaming, how everything could be? That you would wave your hand over raw ingredients and that nude wood nymphs would just whir around and make perfect, sparkling, refreshing, hangover-less alcoholic beverages? ... or was that an over-share?

I thought it was a solid plan, and would be worth trying out if you wanted to go into serious production with this.

 

[Ostomo517]

Day 15 and the rice is beginning to drop back down to the bottom (no pics cause its a ferment bucket) The consensus has been that rice dropping is a indicator of it finishing up (being a impatient brewer I want someone to say harvest it!) But I should go another 12 or so days huh? And took a whiff under the lid and woooooooo, lets say it smells like some fun stuff!

 

[sonofgrok]

Day 15 and the rice is beginning to drop back down to the bottom (no pics cause its a ferment bucket) The consensus has been that rice dropping is a indicator of it finishing up (being a impatient brewer I want someone to say harvest it!) But I should go another 12 or so days huh? And took a whiff under the lid and woooooooo, lets say it smells like some fun stuff!

I would go ahead and harvest around day 21

 

[Arrheinous]

So I setup a rice wine today (2013-02-17).

4 cups Nishiki sushi rice, 2 yeast balls (packed in two so I just used them both), and 1 tbsp white flour.

Washed the rice until it was pretty much clean (no cloudy washings), then added 8 cups of hot tap water and let sit for one hour. After this, I put the heat on medium on the stove for probably 30 minutes until the water began to gurgle through the rice bed. Then I covered and put on low for 30 minutes but ended up stopping since the water was pretty much gone at this point.

Folded the rice on a large metal pan until it reached ~80F. Dusted the rice with 1 tbsp white flour and the floor with the remainder of the flour bag. I beat two yeast balls into a rough powder and dusted the rice with this mixture.

I sterilized my hands and shaped about fifteen fit-in-hand balls that I split among three one-quart mason jars. Compacted the balls a bit with the back of the spoon I was using to manipulate the rice. Put a thin layer of cheese cloth between the jar and lid and turned the lid finger tight.

I'm placing the three jars in one of my unplugged dorm fridges ("beer vaults") and I'll check in every couple days or so.

Notes/Intentions: White flour was added as a sort of starting nutrient. I used a fan to assist in cooling the rice, the same way I've been doing with making sushi since I picked up all this sushi rice. We'll see how resistant it is to airborne nasties. I've also split the batch between three jars instead of one one-gallon jar - compartmentalization should help if any mold starts to grow.

Since I have six quart jars I'll see if I can experiment with conditions - such as proofing the yeast or ratios of yeast-to-rice.


Another Note: If you remove the flat part of the lid and recap tightly using just the collar and the cheesecloth maybe that'd be an easy way of straining off the liquid by shaking the jar.