Are you using fresh pressed or store bought filtered juice?
Good luck, please report back on what you used as far as juice, sugar, etc.. and how each turned out flavor wise.
... I'm sure many reading this will suggest adding a non- fermenting sweetener, such as apple juice concentrate, and depending on my final, final analysis, I may try that next year. ...
Ah. I ask because while I've only made cider from store bought filtered juice to date, of the yeasts you've listed I've used M02 and Safcider (when it was just Safcider without the different varieties. I liked D47 better than either of them, and wasn't particularly happy with the M02 in particular. And best part is D47 is dirt cheap compared to the "special" cider yeasts...Fresh pressed from an orchard.
You can add your pectinase along w campden. No need to wait.Fresh pressed from an orchard.
Thanks! Always planned to report my results. It's probably obvious but I'm doing this to figure out which yeasts I like best. All batches will be treated exactly the same to isolate yeast differences.
Here's the plan:
This is my first venture into cider so I'm open to suggestions. Honestly, I need advice on everything after step 9.
- Start with fresh pressed, unpasteurized, preservative free juice from an orchard
- Divide cider into sterilized fermenters
- Add campden tablets according to raw cider PH and install airlocks
- Wait twelve hours
- Add pectinase
- Wait twelve hours
- Add 1 gram of DAP per gallon
- Pitch yeast
- Wait for fermentation to complete
- Rack into CO2 purged secondary
- Wait until ???
- Maybe add campden tablets to stabilize???
- Transfer into CO2 purged kegs
- Refrigerate and force carbonate
- Drink!
Should I skip the secondary, go straight to keg and condition there?
Are the conditioning campden tablets unnecessary if I skip secondary and go straight to keg?
Should I add Sparkolloid or Super Kleer to the recipe?
Would Sparkolloid or Super Kleer inhibit my ability harvest yeast from the trub? $70 worth of yeast here. I'd like to bank as much as I can.
I have basically the same issue. First time making hard cider and wanted to play with a number of yeasts not necessarily knowing what I wanted as a final result(s).
I used a champagne yeast because I read people enjoyed the product.
To your selection:
I used AB-1, AS-2, Cider House Select, and yesterday pitched TF-6.
We did gallon jugs for all except Cider House Select and TF-6 which are in 5 gal. buckets.
Sunday 10/3/21 we transferred into bottles (except obviously the TF-6, and the Cider House Select with is still perking) to get some carbonation into the product, but had to taste each prior to bottling.
My findings:
Champagne yeast: flat taste, and very dry. Incidentally, the dryness was a quality I "thought" I wanted, now seems too dry. Maybe the carbonation and some rest time will assist. I doubt it though.
AB-1 and AS-2; again, tasted flat, but not as dry.
So, that is why I pitched the TF-6 yesterday. The product description states it will bring out some of the fruitiness.
Originally I was attempting to stay away from the "fruitiness" as I find still cider too sweet, but after the few I've tested, I need some add'l taste. I'm sure many reading this will suggest adding a non- fermenting sweetener, such as apple juice concentrate, and depending on my final, final analysis, I may try that next year. Too late for this years attempt. As of this writing, and the yeasts noted and tasted above, all lack flavor. I would like to see the specific "cider yeasts" yet to be tested yield something closer to what I imagined (doesn't everyone,) some distinctive tastes.
Lastly, many in this forum have written of the merits of English ale yeasts for cider, so considering my less than great results to date, I will follow the suggested leads and next year try some cider made with a Nottingham ale yeast.
To conclude: without the results being final, I can only suggest your first go around using the specific cider yeasts; being an optimist (I make a point of keeping my glass more than half full, goes down to less, I fill it up again,) something makes me want to think the Cider House Select is going to work.
RolandD, my mistake. Thank you for setting it straight. I had readily discounted the approach of adding, and would have gone back to study in depth prior to having attempted. I was aware that it required some form of stabilization and was remiss in not making note. However, since we have each other, have you indeed added an apple concentrate? If so, your findings and suggestions based on my earlier, albeit incorrect reply. Thank you for your correction wouldn't have liked to have been the blame for bad info.
I am seriously considering getting some erythritol to play with. I have some crabapple syrup that I made last year that I sometimes add to my glass of cider, but for the most part I like them dry as long as they are not so dry all the taste disappears.Maybe a hijack here but has anyone ever used lactose and/or monk fruit sugar to back sweeten? I am also in process of first batch of cider (S04 ferment) and was hoping to keg and use unfermentable sweetener to avoid the whole halting yeast step.
I kegged mine and did not use any sorbate, stabilizers, etc. I only made 3 gallons. It did not get drank quickly and went “off” after maybe 6-8 weeks.
You can add your pectinase along w campden. No need to wait.
If you do plan on reusing yeast, make sure you are using nutrients during the initial fermentation. I’d also throw in a pinch along w the saved yeast slurry. I would also not save it as long as beer yeast (that fermented beer).
My 2 cents: make a gallon batch of each and see which one you like the best before making a 5 gallon batch of anything. I've also noticed that juice from apples that ripen later in the season makes better hard cider so find out when your juice source stops making it and go back at the end and get some more.
You are probably aware that many of us are following your adventure with great interest.
I am intrigued that you rate AC4 as a winner and AB1 as a loser since the Fermentis profiles seem similar and I would have expected the results to be similar. Please tell us more. FYI, in case you haven't seen it, I attached a paper covering these yeasts to Madscientist451's post of last Saturday. This was written by Fermentis' Technical Manager, Fruit Fermentation, and although probably originally in French and translated into English, it is "followable".
Please keep reporting about what is happening because I would like to try these new yeasts and value your input.
My concern here, which may or may not be an issue, is that you used juice from fresh pressed orchard apples. Not that you wouldn't want to, of course, but there is a good chance your results are confounded by the presence of wild yeast. Although I can't stand 'cider' made from pasturised, filtered supermarket apple juice, it might be worth trying to confirm at least some of your results using that kind of juice. Sorry if I misunderstood your methodology. I didn't read the whole thread.
Yes, I agree it's more likely the pitched yeast population overwhelms the wild yeast community, but there's no guarantee of that happening consistently across the batches here or even at all. A kind of ecological succession is often observed during fermentation, even when one yeast strain is pitched at relatively high density. The potassium metabisulphate/SO2 is only going to slow the wild yeast temporarily. I'd be a bit wary of assuming the apparent lack of any signs of metabolic activity prior to pitching necessarily translates into no biological activity. The lag phase period, for example, rarely shows any signs of metabolic activity, but it takes several hours for the yeast to remodel its proteome to exploit the new sugary conditions. It's possible metabolites from wild yeast at low density push above the detection threshold. Not necessarily a negative character. It might add some pleasant complexity interacting with elements of the pitched yeast profile. If you always use the same apples from the same orchard there's not really much to worry about. It just means others might not get a comparable experience when pitching one of these commercial cider yeasts.I'm aware. When I decided to make cider this season I hoped to find a thread like this one already waiting for me to read. It wasn't here so I decided to make one.
Winners and Losers were chosen by me based on the poll in this thread and my own opinions. Since this is my first time using any of these yeasts, my opinions are based solely on what I have read here on HBT and elsewhere.
The winners got 5 gallon batches and the losers got 2.5 gallon batches.
I will continue to post as the adventure continues!
I added potassium metabisulfate when the juice was fresh out of my supplier's walk-in cooler.
The 150ppm of free SO2 generated by the potassium metabisulfate suppresses all wild yeast and microbes. It sort of puts them to sleep by blocking their metabolism.
(The amount of potassium metabisulfate required varies based on the PH of the apple cider.)
The yeasts we use to make cider massively out-compete the wild yeasts and bacteria so no worries about them once you pitch your yeast.
I was able to verify that there wasn't any wild fermentation when I observed the juice prior to pitching. Note that the cider had been sitting around at 68F for 48 hours before I pitched my yeasts. There was no sign of CO2 at that point. No bubbles. No CO2 smell. Nor were there any funky spoiled smells. The only thing I could smell was sweet sweet apple cider and the stink of SO2.
I have to say that there is no greater smell than 35 gallons of room temperature apple cider. It didn't smell like much when it was cold. Once it warmed up it was a whole different story. My entire basement was permeated by the most delicious apple smell. It was absolute heaven!
Unfortunately, it attracted every fruit fly in the county.
You'd think all that SO2 would harm the yeasts we choose to use but let me tell you AS-2 took off like a rocket after only five hours. It was closely followed by AB-1 approximately twelve hours later.
I'll post comments on fermentation activity for all yeasts after primary fermentation has finished.
Edit: did you aerate the juice for WLP775 and WY4766?
Dry yeast are conditioned with oxygen prior to the drying process and they require no aeration when pitching. Wet yeast require aeration when pitching to ensure efficient growth after pitching.Why did you ask if those two yeasts were aerated?
Dry yeast are conditioned with oxygen prior to the drying process and they require no aeration when pitching. Wet yeast require aeration when pitching to ensure efficient growth after pitching.