LP Burners for 20g batches?

[kladue]

Could you do a video of the burner with 3/32" gas jet, it looks like you are close with the 5/64" but if the air shutter is around 50% then the next larger should work. Light yellow tips on a few of the flame tips is about optimum air/fuel mix, all blue is too much air for maximum efficiency. The orange flames in the video are from the paint starting to burn off and bits of casting and grinding residue burning up in the flame.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

The orange flames in the video are from the paint starting to burn off and bits of casting and grinding residue burning up in the flame.

Ahhh I was wondering what that smell was. How long does that stuff take to burn off?

 

[Mike_A]

May be chiming in a little late here but I use the banjo BG-14 and the small banjo BG-12's on high pressure LP and they work well for boiling 20+ gallons. It takes a significant amount of time to go from cold (45-50*F) to boil though, I'd say an hour or maybe a little more. But in reality, I'm raising cold water to strike temps (108-165*F depending on temperature steps) with a BG-14, then stepping temps up with the BG-12, then bringing it to a boil from 150ish with a BG-14.

cwi, I want to roll my brewstand outside and brew on nice days but my wind resistance is not too great. Keep us posted on how the aluminum flashing works and how it's arranged relative to the burners & kettles.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Weird. Tried the 3/32" again and it looks way better this time. Maybe it really was just the paint/etc burning off.



Should I try going even bigger? That flame was achieved at maybe 50-60% shutter.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

bringing it to a boil from 150ish with a BG-14.

How long does it take to go from 150 to boil?

 

[kladue]

The 3/32" opening is probably enough for now, you could go up to 7/64" if you think you need a bit more fire for the HLT burner only. If you light the boil kettle burner when you have 2" of wort in the kettle, it should reach boiling at about the same time as last runnings hit kettle. The real load test is heating strike water from cold to 165-170 degrees.
The paint will burn off after about 1/2 hour of use, do not worry about the orange colored flames, it is just junk burning up in the flame.

 

[cwi]

It looks like your flame is well below the maximum capable for these burners. Then again, these burners put out way more heat than can be handled by the bottom of a 20" pot. Putting a pot over the burner (with some water in it of course) will give you a better idea of how big of a flame you need. The pot may also change the burner behavior some as well.

Until you get the damper close to 100% open, with a good flame, you haven't hit the orifice limit. So, if you still need a bigger flame, you can keep going. It is a weird interaction of orifice, venturi effect, pressure, gas type, etc., though. Your gas pressure is fixed fairly low, but hopefully has essentially unlimited flow as far as the burner is concerned. I think you may get limited at the high end by the low pressure not creating enough venturi effect. If you still need more heat, you can inject air into the damper to make up for the oxy deficit.

If you really want to see what one of these can do, hook up an adjustable HP reg and a BBQ tank to it.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Thanks again guys. I'll prob leave the 3/32" for the MLT and Boil Kettle for now, but I did order an extra orifice so I'll try going bigger just to see what happens (we are american after all so bigger obv = better right?).

If you really want to see what one of these can do, hook up an adjustable HP reg and a BBQ tank to it.

I definitely plan on doing this at some point just for ****s and giggles.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

So 7/64" is definitely too big. Even wide open I couldn't get the flame to clean up at all and flames were going 1/4 the way up the kettle.

I'm heating some strike water as we speak w/ the 3/32" and I had to throttle back the gas valve to keep the flame from coming up the side of the kettle. It also looks much more yellow/orange than it did w/o the kettle above it. Standard?

 

[kladue]

Do not worry about the flame for at least an hour of operation as the oils in the paint will be burning off and coloring the flame. When the pot is over the burner the air that flows around the burner and helps to finish gas combustion will be reduced a bit and you will probably need to tweak the air shutter open a bit more.

 

[auric82]

I have a question related to burners. I am building my brew tree and have three banjo bg-12 burners, look like small hurricane burners, and a 30 psi regulator.

What is the best way to pipe / cable this all up?

 

[cwi]

So 7/64" is definitely too big. Even wide open I couldn't get the flame to clean up at all and flames were going 1/4 the way up the kettle.

I'm heating some strike water as we speak w/ the 3/32" and I had to throttle back the gas valve to keep the flame from coming up the side of the kettle. It also looks much more yellow/orange than it did w/o the kettle above it. Standard?

If you can adjust your burner position relative to the bottom of the pot, you may be able to get better performance at the high end with a bit more distance. There are also some threads on modifying the shields around the burner in stands like yours- trimming, adding vent holes, etc. One guy even used a blower to force air into the system.

Did you find a local source for your orifices (orifi?)? I haven't found a good hardware store in Austin that has survived the Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-Mart invasion. I love the low prices on common things, but selection and specialized parts got lost in the collateral damage. Dallas has Elliot's Hardware, and they have just about everything you could ever need.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

What is the best way to pipe / cable this all up?

I was going to hard plumb it up w/ copper but after seeing how cheap/easy this stuff is: LINK. I went that route. Waaaay easier.

Did you find a local source for your orifices (orifi?)?

Unfortunately no. I had to order them from Bayou Classic (which has AWESOME customer service BTW...I ordered the wrong size and they were incredibly helpful fixing the issue).

 

[CharlosCarlies]

If you can adjust your burner position relative to the bottom of the pot, you may be able to get better performance at the high end with a bit more distance.

You know I was thinking the same thing. I just mounted the burners as low as they could go on the heat shield, but I might try making some kind of bracket and dropping them down another inch or two to see how that works. Thanks for the tip.

 

[kladue]

Are you using a converted keg, or a flat bottom kettle?, if it is a keg then cutting a couple vent holes in the skirt will greatly improve the burner operation and let you move the burner closer to the bottom of the keg. If it is a flat bottom pot then the addition of 1/2" square stock spacers between the frame and pot will greatly improve the flow of heat across the bottom of the pot and let the burner get enough secondary air.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

It's one of the 26g B3 kettles. The spacers sound like a good idea. I'll give that a shot.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Well I just realized the gas valves are 1/4". The burners seem to be running better w/o them hooked up, but I could just be imagining it.

Is 1/4" too small considering how low of pressure we're using?

 

[kladue]

The 1/4" valves would be a bit on the small size for low pressure use, the size of the internal port is probably going to be the same size or smaller than the burner orifice, not a good thing. If you are going to replace the valve then consider using 3/8" valves with an opening 3-4 times the gas jet area to reduce the pressure drop problem.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Well crap.

Are there any reasonably priced ones that you can recommend?

 

[cwi]

Well crap.

Are there any reasonably priced ones that you can recommend?

Check Ebay. There are brass and bronze ball valves on there all the time for $1-2 each in lots of 4-6. I was wondering about your flow, since I will have to deal with the same thing for converting to NG. BobbyM experienced the same issue with his NG conversion due to pipe diam/length causing reduced flow.

If you can plumb a higher pressure line off your yard bomb to your brew area, that might make your life easier. It would mean at least one more reg, though.

 

[kladue]

Are you talking solenoid or ball valves?, look on the inside if they are ball valves, if the internal hole is around 1/4", don't sweat it they are okay. If they are solenoid valves take a picture or post the part number so I can research them for you. Valves for projects or Fremont industrial are good sources for solenoid valves, the next better alternative is the Honeywell VR8200 furnace valves.

 

[WolfieBrew]

Are you using a converted keg, or a flat bottom kettle?, if it is a keg then cutting a couple vent holes in the skirt will greatly improve the burner operation and let you move the burner closer to the bottom of the keg. If it is a flat bottom pot then the addition of 1/2" square stock spacers between the frame and pot will greatly improve the flow of heat across the bottom of the pot and let the burner get enough secondary air.

Do you have any pictures (or links to pics) of vent holes cut in the keg skirt?

 

[kladue]

here is a link to EarthBounds build thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/earthbounds-rig-200474/.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

here is a link to EarthBounds build thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/earthbounds-rig-200474/.

That thread (post #10) says the vents cut in the skirt actually decreases the efficiency... is this your experience as well?

 

[kladue]

If the burners are not tuned correctly it might be possible, but my experience has shown an improvement with burner operation and waste heat going where you want instead of up the sides to burn up valve handles and tubing. Here is the configuration I have implemented with combustion venting to outdoors https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/BoilKettle#5225673202891787298, here is the collector box https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/WetTestProgressPhotoS#5225298718815106178