Low OG why?

[everenlightened]

Hello all,
I brewed my fourth beer today, A Hefe.

My Recipe was

2 Lb Crystal 10L
1.5 Lb Flaked Wheat
0.5 Lb Light Munich

I Mashed at 155F for 45 Min in 2 Gallons of water and then sparged in another 2 Gallons at 150F for 20 Min. (I know the volumes should be larger but my current brewspace and stove in the apt. doesn't allow for much more)
I added water for 4 gallons and boiled with 4.5 LB Light LME.

Previously, on a porter, stout, and amber, My OG was dead on the recipe, this time I calculated 1.048 to 1.051 but ended up with 1.025.

Any thoughts?

I squeezed my grain bag as best I could to get all the wort but didn't get as much as I did on previous batches. Is that because of the wheat?

Should I boil some more LME when I rack to secondary to up the grav. a bit?

Thanks in advance!

-T

 

[avidhomebrewer]

What was your temperature of the sample? Did you correct for any temperature variations? Based upon your recipe, I would say there is a sample error of some sort. Also, when you steep grains like you did, do not squeeze the bag out. Lift it up out of the wort and let it drain into the wort for a little while. When you squeeze it, you may bring over some other off-flavors that you don't want.

 

[everenlightened]

I was at 84F and 1.023, My corrections table specified +3 so 1.026 is what I'm going with.

Should I steep the grain in my largest pot? because I've been using the largest to sparge with since I can get closer to 3.5 or 4 gallons., But this batch the grain absorbed 3/4 of my strike water and It seemed like a very small amount. Thats why I squeezed the bag.

-T

 

[Gremlyn]

The grain shouldn't be contributing much in the way of gravity, thought 2# of crystal is quite a bit for any recipe. Are you sure it was stirred properly when you topped up to 5 gal? When dealing with extract recipes is damn near impossible to miss your gravity. Unless your recipe calculator was expecting the flaked wheat to somehow give you extra gravity. What calculator do you use?

 

[japhroaig]

"Should I boil some more LME when I rack to secondary to up the grav. a bit? "

Yes, you should. That recipe has me scratching my head--I would actually expect about the gravity you observed from that grain bill. Where is this recipe from?

 

[japhroaig]

Yeah, according to Beersmith with that grainbill you should hit 1.026. Looks like you actually nailed it, but the recipe is wrong
Add 3 lbs pale malt, and you'll hit your numbers. Or the equivalent extract if your pots can't handle that amount. I am assuming you are trying to hit 4 gallons. If not, 2 lbs pale for 3 gallons, 1 lbs for 2 gallons.

(also glad my intuition is still working )

 

[SumnerH]

2 Lb Crystal 10L
1.5 Lb Flaked Wheat
0.5 Lb Light Munich

I Mashed at 155F for 45 Min in 2 Gallons of water and then sparged in another 2 Gallons at 150F for 20 Min. (I know the volumes should be larger but my current brewspace and stove in the apt. doesn't allow for much more)

Where'd you get this recipe? Did you test for conversion?

I'd think you'd need a couple of pounds of base malt to convert that wheat. That doesn't seem like enough munich to get the job done, but if it worked it worked.

Regardless, the 4.5 lbs of LME will give you 1.033 in a 5 gallon batch (give or take based on brand) all by itself, so if you measured much less than that your measurement was wrong. It's not uncommon in partial boils for the top-off water not to be mixed in that well, which can mess with your hydrometer readings.

If the grain converted then you should've been in the 1.051 range, but like I said unless the iodine test was positive for conversion I'd be suspicious about that grain bill.

 

[Grinder12000]

NEVER squeeze your grain bag - it is to be treated as a precious egg. Squeezing will only give you unwanted tannins.

As for the gravity - are you guys adding the 4.5 lb of LME to his recipe? It's 6 in the morning for me and I missed it on the first read.

My GUT feeling is that your wort was not mixed properly when you took the reading and you are near what you want. It's hard to mess up an Extract recite (lord knows I have tried LOL).

4.5lb LME
2 Lb Crystal 10L
1.5 Lb Flaked Wheat
0.5 Lb Light Munich

 

[everenlightened]

I mixed the top off water in pretty well but that may have been my problem. I'm hoping some previous posters missed the 4.5 Lbs of LME in the recipe.

What is an iodine test? And can someone help me understand conversion better?

I got the recipe in part from a book but modified it a bit because I'd like to move to all-grain soon and wanted a larger grain bill. Should I have added Plain 2-Row as opposed to Crystal? I am new to this and if I made a mistake let me know, I need to learn from it. Just be kind please

-T

 

[Clonefarmer]

I mixed the top off water in pretty well but that may have been my problem. I'm hoping some previous posters missed the 4.5 Lbs of LME in the recipe.

What is an iodine test? And can someone help me understand conversion better?

I got the recipe in part from a book but modified it a bit because I'd like to move to all-grain soon and wanted a larger grain bill. Should I have added Plain 2-Row as opposed to Crystal? I am new to this and if I made a mistake let me know, I need to learn from it. Just be kind please

-T

Iodine turns black in the presence of starch. Place a few drops of wort on a white plate. Add a few drops of iodine. If you have converted the starch to sugar the iodine will remain reddish brown.

Hefeweizens don't typically have any crystal in them. Usually just Pilsner and wheat. I prefer mine simple, but you can get creative and add grains like Munich. If you only have 2 row that should work fine.

 

[Grinder12000]

I've been reading this board for 2 years and have 50 batches under my belt and this is the first I've ever heard of a iodine test unless it is a saying.

BTW - good call on the 2-row vs. crystal. hmmmmmmm

I think you are all good to go and don't worry. ferment the Hefe as cold as you can but it'll be fine. Don't squeeze the grain bag though.

The WORST that will happen is that you brew will have a little less ABV.

 

[Clonefarmer]

I've been reading this board for 2 years and have 50 batches under my belt and this is the first I've ever heard of a iodine test unless it is a saying.

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=feu&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&q=iodine+starch+conversion+test&revid=70910347&ei=qLbeS730HYaBlAfLv6j2BA&sa=X&oi=revisions_inline&resnum=0&ct=broad-revision&cd=1&ved=0CEIQ1QIoAA"]Iodine starch conversion test.[/ame]

 

[SumnerH]

I mixed the top off water in pretty well but that may have been my problem. I'm hoping some previous posters missed the 4.5 Lbs of LME in the recipe.

What is an iodine test? And can someone help me understand conversion better?

I got the recipe in part from a book but modified it a bit because I'd like to move to all-grain soon and wanted a larger grain bill. Should I have added Plain 2-Row as opposed to Crystal? I am new to this and if I made a mistake let me know, I need to learn from it. Just be kind please

-T

A mash is not a steep. Steeping only works for grains that have already had their starches fully converted to sugars (e.g. crystal/caramel malts). You're just dissolving those sugars into the wort in a steep.

In a mash, you're actually converting starches into sugars, and then dissolving those sugars. In order for the conversion to happen, you need certain enzymes to be present and they need to be at certain temperatures.

In general, modern base malts (pilsen and pale malts like standard pale 2-row and 6-row and Marris Otter) are loaded with a ton of those enzymes, enough to convert not only themselves but at least an equal weight of other grains during a typical 60 minute mash.

Specialty malts have no enzymes (they get killed off during the kilning). Neither does flaked wheat (malted wheat does, but it tastes different). Some other malts--e.g. Munich--have some enzymes, but far less than base malts do. You can usually count on them to convert themselves, but not anything else.

Short rule of thumb (to be broken once you learn more): Add up the weight of all the non-Munich, non-base malts in your mash. Use at least the same weight of base malts with them.

 

[japhroaig]

everenlightened, part of the fun is the experimentation
pale malt of some sort is usually 60-95% of the grain bill. it is what adds most of your fermentables. so next time simply add a couple pounds of pale.

btw, Beersmith or one of it's competitors (Promash, etc.) is virtually essential when designing a recipe. That is unless you want to do the math by hand Get a copy, even just the trial version, and I think you will be very happy with the results.

 

[SumnerH]

btw, Beersmith or one of it's competitors (Promash, etc.) is virtually essential when designing a recipe. That is unless you want to do the math by hand Get a copy, even just the trial version, and I think you will be very happy with the results.

http://www.hbd.org/recipator is free and good enough when you're just getting started.

 

[mkling]

The biggest part of your problem is almost assuredly not having enough enzymes in your partial mash to convert the starches to sugars (which contribute to gravity). Your partial mash grain bill was:

2 Lb Crystal 10L
1.5 Lb Flaked Wheat
0.5 Lb Light Munich

Neither the crystal nor the wheat have any enzymes. The Munich has some, but really only enough to convert itself. The crystal is already somewhat converted (though there is certainly still starches in there. The wheat just added starch to your beer. Next time you should use some base malt like 2 row or pilsner malt. Also, just as a side note, flaked wheat would be fairly unusual for a hefeweizen. They usually use malted wheat (which does have enzymes).

 

[everenlightened]

Thanks for all the great help guys. Lots of great advice about the enzymes/starches/conversion. Exactly what I was looking for, I was under the stupid assumption (A**umption) that the heat itself was what was "pulling the sugars out." I knew there was much more chemically going on but hadn't yet bothered to look into it. I checked my Gravity again the day after I brewed and it was 1.022. So I guess I'm destined for a nice low ABV beer. Oh well.

All the witbier and hefe recipes in my book had flaked wheat, but I also decided to not use wheat extract which was in those recipies.

Again I added an extra 1.5Lb of Crystal because I wanted more grain, next time I will use 2-Row and hope for a better brew.

I have a krausen, and the gravity has started going down so it looks like the yeast is happy enough. I'll let you guys know how it tastes in a couple months, and probably give it another shot with a much improved recipe and method after that.

Thanks again for not making me feel like too much of an idiot.

-T

 

[jeffmeh]

And excess tannins from squeezing the grain bag appears to be another brewing myth. The BIAB guys have been squeezing the bag without any detectable issues.

 

[1ratdog]

never squeeze your grain bags. warm a small saucepan of water to about 150 degree and rinse them but dont squeeze

 

[everenlightened]

Thanks for all the help everyone, I tasted this a couple weeks ago and forgot to post an update. But here it is now. Beer actually turned out very well! It definitely is a low ABV brew but the taste is very nice kinda a "Blue Moon Light" is what my tasting buddies described. I finished my Keggle last week and once I get my Mash Tun and HLT finished its on to the adventure of All-Grain! Glad I found out about beersmith and the chemistry of the mash before I "screwed" up another beer!
-T

P.S. the FG dropped all the way to 1.005 which all my previous extract brews hovered around 1.015 so that helped with at least getting above 2%