Low final gravity and solvent-like taste

[jpsu]

Extract brewer here - I attempted an IPA that was supposed to have an OG of 1.070 and FG of 1.016 using white labs WLP001 yeast and pilsen DME. I made a starter for this, my first time doing so, and don't have a magnetic stirrer so I used the 'shake whenever you're around method' for about 32 hours before pitching.

Anyway, the OG came out near-perfect at 1.069, but the FG was at 1.005 (0.011 too low) after 15 days of fermenting. I then cold-crashed (3 days around 33 F) and kegged the beer. The resulting beer tastes pretty bad, solvent-like (paint thinner?) and harsh on the back of the throat.

So I read about solvent-like flavors and it's supposed to be from fermenting at too high temperatures. However, I use a temperature-controlled cooler, and my recorded temp range for the 15 days was max 72.0 F and min 66.6 F, which is pretty close to the recc'd range for wlp001 (68-73 F optimum). To control the temp, I tape the temp-controller probe to the side of the fermenting bucket near the middle.

Could the internal temp in the bucket be significantly higher? Or could I be dealing with an infection instead? This isn't something I've seen before (about 5 good batches brewed in the past). Thanks for any help!

 

[IslandLizard]

Sad to say, an FG of 1.005 from 1.069 surely points to an infection, as do the weird off-flavors.

What did you use to make that starter? Was it clean and well sanitized? Capped with foil?

Did you use good sanitation methods when making and transferring the starter? How about other parts in your process?
The bucket lid, the groove, can be a real bug trap, as are deeper scratches in plastic and spigots.

Ferm temps of 72F are a little too high in the beginning, but good to finish out with.
Yup, probe on the fermentor is good. Was it covered with a piece of foam?

 

[VABeerSnob]

Sounds like an infection to me.

 

[jpsu]

Thanks for the replies!
That's a bummer. I always thought an infection would taste like something moldy or rotten. Good to know.

I thought everything was clean and sanitized, and yes, I put loose aluminum foil (sanitized) on top of the starter. I usually soak everything in Starsan for at least 20 minutes (fermenting bucket, thermometer, auto-siphon, etc). I have a plastic planter (meant for gardening) bin that I use to put my brewing tools in and I keep them soaking in Starsan solution during brewing. The fermenter and keg I shake with starsan solution and let them also soak for 20 minutes or so before dumping.

A couple ideas for what might have happened - feedback would be great!
1. I was sick during this brewing session. I had cold and definitely tried to not cough anywhere near the wort, but may have been a factor.
2. I've had one other brew with off-flavors and like this batch, it had a flameout addition. Before, it was honey, and this time, pilsen DME. With a flameout addition, should I let the wort stay a high temperature to 'sanitize' the late addition for 20 minutes, or is that irrelevant? I have been just going straight to the ice bath after mixing in the additive for a couple minutes.
3. I keep the boil kettle lid off during the ice bath. Should the lid be on to prevent microorganisms from finding their way in?

Thanks for any help!!

 

[IslandLizard]

1. No chance!
2. Pasteurization temp is around 160F for one minute (actually shorter), so a flameout addition is nearly sterilized. As long as the DME was dissolved, it's pasteurized. If large clumps remain... maybe not.
3. You should keep the lid on chilled wort, yes.

Any valves on your kettle? Any threaded ports?
Any spigots on your fermentor or other places "bugs" can hide?

Was the off flavor there when you racked into the keg? That could isolate the problem to your dispensing system or fermentor, and away from your kettle.

Not sure which "bug" causes solvent off flavors, beers typically sour first, and a pellicle develops on top.
[Edit] Wild yeasts are known to produce solvent like off flavors.

You do clean your equipment with a good cleaner, such as washing soda, Oxiclean, PBW, then rinse, before you sanitize?

 

[jpsu]

Good to know, thanks for the reply. No valves, I just pour the kettle into the fermentor, and siphon the fermentor into the keg. I usually have 2.5 gallons of wort in the kettle in the ice bath, and then add refrigerated spring water for the other 2.5 gallons to get the temp down quickly. I've been using store-bought spring water for all my brews so far.

I'm 90% sure the flavor was there before racking to the keg. It tasted bad but I was just hoping I'd gotten too many of the dry hops that were floating on top in my glass. Maybe that was the 'pellicle.'

I don't usually spend a ton of time cleaning my equipment after it's done being used. I usually mix in beer brite with hot water and do some minimal scrubbing in the fermentor / keg before pouring it out and rinsing. I don't concentrate on the fermentor lid too much either as it's harder to clean in the grooves. Perhaps that's my issue?

 

[IslandLizard]

I think you just uncovered the problem.
It happens quite often, the first few brews are all great, then suddenly infection sets in on every subsequent brew.

Clean well, scrub, use brushes, (homemade) PBW, etc. After cleaning with a suitable detergent (PBW, Oxiclean, washing soda) you may also need to give all your cold side equipment a bleach bath, and lay it outside in strong sunshine for a day. Then wash off again, and Starsan it.

Except where it snaps over the rim, what other grooves are on the in-side of the lid?

 

[Kyle]

One other thing I would recommend is to boil the spring water before topping it off during the cooling phase. It could still contain bacteria out of the bottle.

And that is a pretty high abv beer that could benefit from a few weeks of room temp aging/conditioning. Set it aside for a while and see if it's better or worse. If it gets better its probably a process error like ferm temp or something. Worse and it might just be an infection.

 

[jpsu]

I think you just uncovered the problem.
It happens quite often, the first few brews are all great, then suddenly infection sets in on every subsequent brew.

Clean well, scrub, use brushes, (homemade) PBW, etc. After cleaning with a suitable detergent (PBW, Oxiclean, washing soda) you may also need to give all your cold side equipment a bleach bath, and lay it outside in strong sunshine for a day. Then wash off again, and Starsan it.

Except where it snaps over the rim, what other grooves are on the in-side of the lid?

Thanks for all your help IslandLizard. For the lid, it's just a standard plastic lid for a 6 gallon fermenting bucket. I should pay more attention to cleaning it. Now I know. The bad news is I already had brewed another batch before posting on this forum, so fingers crossed that that brew will be ok.

 

[jpsu]

One other thing I would recommend is to boil the spring water before topping it off during the cooling phase. It could still contain bacteria out of the bottle.

And that is a pretty high abv beer that could benefit from a few weeks of room temp aging/conditioning. Set it aside for a while and see if it's better or worse. If it gets better its probably a process error like ferm temp or something. Worse and it might just be an infection.

I'd always wondered about the water. If I used distilled water and then added brewer salts during the boil, would you still recommend boiling the 'top off' distilled water?

 

[Kyle]

Yes anything you add after the boil needs to be sanitized so the top off water should still be boiled. That also goes for the water used for making a starter. Sanitizer isn't really necessary on anything before the boil cause everything will be boiled for 60 minutes anyway.

Even if you boiled the top off water the night before and stored it in a sanitized container in the fridge so it's cold for brew day would be okay.

 

[IslandLizard]

One other thing I would recommend is to boil the spring water before topping it off during the cooling phase. It could still contain bacteria out of the bottle.

And that is a pretty high abv beer that could benefit from a few weeks of room temp aging/conditioning. Set it aside for a while and see if it's better or worse. If it gets better its probably a process error like ferm temp or something. Worse and it might just be an infection.

Isn't spring water UV irradiated before packaging and thus sterile? If not, wouldn't it be a health hazard sitting in a warehouse and on a store shelf for weeks, perhaps months, then consume it.

 

[S-Met]

Most usa store bought h2o is as sanitary as you need. You have a greater chance of introducing bacteria boiling and repackaging than just using. Flavor of the bottled h2o on the other hand is its own topic.

What you do need to be concerned about is the outside of the bottles. Be mindful of labels and that plastic ring around the cap. Warehouses, shipping trucks and store shelves could be exposed nearly anything. Quick rinse and dry and you should be fine though.

As long as your fermentation vessel and equipment is clean and you pitch yeast in a reasonable time, you have little to worry.

 

[Kyle]

Never went that far into it but was just advised from other members on this forum to boil bottled water before using on the cold side. Just cheap insurance just like most things we do

 

[IslandLizard]

Never went that far into it but was just advised from other members on this forum to boil bottled water before using on the cold side. Just cheap insurance just like most things we do

Can you point us to that thread?
My understanding is if water is safe to be consumed without boiling, it is safe to be added to your extract wort as is.

@S-Met brought up something that is important and often forgotten. The outside of the containers, especially and the lid area, would benefit from washing off and perhaps sanitizing for good measure, before hovering them over your open bucket or kettle.

The OP's problem seems to lie in the lack of a proper cleaning regimen, not his water source.

 

[IslandLizard]

I do hope everyone brewing treats all their domestic water used in brewing with a 1/4 crushed Campden tablet* per 5 gallons of water to remove/neutralize the Chlorine or Chloramines your municipal water utility adds at the source. A small effort with a huge pay-off. Forget the carbon filters!

If they are to remain, chlorophenols can and will be formed during fermentation and create weird plasticky and medicinal off flavors that IMO kills any beer.

*Or use a good pinch of "Meta" (Potassium or Sodium Metabisulfite) powder/crystals. Give it a good stir to dissolve, it works immediately.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

I do hope everyone brewing treats all their domestic water used in brewing with a 1/4 crushed Campden tablet* per 5 gallons of water to remove/neutralize the Chlorine or Chloramines your municipal water utility adds at the source. A small effort with a huge pay-off. Forget the carbon filters!

If they are to remain, chlorophenols can and will be formed during fermentation and create weird plasticky and medicinal off flavors that IMO kills any beer.

*Or use a good pinch of "Meta" (Potassium or Sodium Metabisulfite) powder/crystals. Give it a good stir to dissolve, it works immediately.

How long do you leave your Campden tablets to work? I believe the recommendation is 24 hours, but in practice I have forgotten that step and ended up giving it far less - I have not been able to pick out a difference.

 

[doug293cz]

How long do you leave your Campden tablets to work? I believe the recommendation is 24 hours, but in practice I have forgotten that step and ended up giving it far less - I have not been able to pick out a difference.

I've never seen any wait time for Campden to work prior to your post. Do you have any references for this? I have seen recommendations to leave chlorinated water in an open vessel for 24 hrs to allow the chlorine to dissipate. The problem with this is that more and more municipalities are using chloramine instead of chlorine because it lasts longer in the water. Chloramine will not dissipate from an open vessel in any reasonable amount of time, nor will boiling remove it. Campden is about the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Brew on

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

I've never seen any wait time for Campden to work prior to your post. Do you have any references for this? I have seen recommendations to leave chlorinated water in an open vessel for 24 hrs to allow the chlorine to dissipate. The problem with this is that more and more municipalities are using chloramine instead of chlorine because it lasts longer in the water. Chloramine will not dissipate from an open vessel in any reasonable amount of time, nor will boiling remove it. Campden is about the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Brew on

I can't remember where I read that - I will have to check How to Brew and some other references I have used. In theory, the reaction is instantaneous on contact, so the 24 hours might have been either precautionary to ensure full mixing (I stir a couple of times over the time I do let it sit), or a hangover from how to deal with straight chlorine.

edit: also possible I am conflating a wine/cider recommendation for sanitizing juice, where the ration is closer to 1 tablet per gallon, and therefore quite a bit more sulphur one would want to let gas off.