Low Enzymatic/Cold Mash/Low alcohol beer

[ThirstyPawsHB]

1st shot at this NEM. Dubbel with OG at 1.024. I added 1/2lbs of d-90. Grain bill would normally be a 5-5.5%er. Calculations come out at 1.75% max. 4 weeks to report back.

 

[hamachi]

Here's a report on how my two previously described attempts at cold mashed beers turned out:

Attempt 1: LoMash Bitter. Finished at FG=1.009 for ABV=2.2%, calories=85 per 12 oz. Tastes like a reasonably flavorful session bitter. Looks like this:

Attempt 2: Belgian Helft. Finished at FG=1.006 for ABV=1.7%, calories=61 per 12 oz. Tastes pleasant, but with no "Belgian" character that I could detect. A bit thinner than the bitter, as one would expect. Looks like this:

Overall, I am pleased with the results and would call the experiment a success. However, it's a fair bit of extra time and work, and it consumes an excessive amount of grain relative to what you end up with. So as a control, I plan to do another experiment targeting a 2% beer with conventional mashing by simply scaling back the amount of grain. Will the resulting beer be noticeably thinner and less tasty? We'll see.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Thanks for reporting back your results. Looks good!

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Here's a report on how my two previously described attempts at cold mashed beers turned out:

Attempt 1: LoMash Bitter. Finished at FG=1.009 for ABV=2.2%, calories=85 per 12 oz. Tastes like a reasonably flavorful session bitter. Looks like this:
View attachment 750727

Attempt 2: Belgian Helft. Finished at FG=1.006 for ABV=1.7%, calories=61 per 12 oz. Tastes pleasant, but with no "Belgian" character that I could detect. A bit thinner than the bitter, as one would expect. Looks like this:
View attachment 750728

Overall, I am pleased with the results and would call the experiment a success. However, it's a fair bit of extra time and work, and it consumes an excessive amount of grain relative to what you end up with. So as a control, I plan to do another experiment targeting a 2% beer with conventional mashing by simply scaling back the amount of grain. Will the resulting beer be noticeably thinner and less tasty? We'll see.

Thanks for reporting back. I started warming WY3787 to 75-78F and got great esters (with normal beers). I'm not familiar with 530 but maybe try the same technique? I've tried low ABV normal mash technique and it's awful. Can't even call it hop water. Thin and tasteless as fuuk. I may report back sooner then expected. Seemed to finish in a couple days. Plan is to brew a regular 10%er Quad on top of this yeast...but for a different thread.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

For low ABVs...need to get @TwistedGray involved. This dude can brew flavorful and creative ABVs.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Belgian "Dubbel" ended at 2.5%. This is fantastic!! Get great esters as I fermented warm. Maybe not do the 10% but do another of these adding tart cherries. Truly TRULY excited to keg. And really, 5 days fermentation??!!?? Should be better with some carb. Will report back...

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Here she is. Belgian Dubbel bill but using non-enzymatic cold mash technique. 7 days Grain to Glass. Force carbed 3hrs ago. Great body, surprisingly. To recap, 1.024 to 1.005. 2.5% ABV. 78 calories. 5 carbs according to various calculators. A bit grainy as others said about theirs. Wy3787 esters coming through. I'll chalk this up to a successful 1st low ABV brew.

 

[Broothru]

For the last several days I've been mucking around this thread topic in preparation of making 2022 a Low Alcohol year. I read Jennifer Talley's book front to back and started getting excited, then fell into the rabbit hole of this thread as well as most of the associated links. I really want to try the cold extraction/low-enzymatic mash techniques, but still have a few questions and concerns. Perhaps @ThirstyPawsHB, @beersk, and especially @BrewnWKopperKat (whose comments and links have been especially enlightening) can lend lend a hand and offer up some practical advice.

First question is about wort turbidity and associated 'grainy' perception of the finished beer. In general, I've got a serious hang-up about clear beer. Don't know why, just am. Clear West Coast IPAs, Pales, Blondes and 'brilliant clarity' Continental lagers are my jam. NEIPAs and/or just about anything else that's murky, not so much. In low temperature mashing it appears to be a common comment that once the grains are removed, there's a metric crap-ton of solids left behind. Since I abhor siphon tubes and generally try to perform closed transfers under pressure, will the solids settle out if I cold crash the wort, and if so will the sediment bed be too deep to transfer with a rotatable racking arm? What I'm thinking about is mashing in a temperature controlled conical fermenter, pulling a BIAB mash bag with the grains after 8 hours cold soaking, crashing the remaining wort to the 30s F, dumping the supernatant out the bottom, and then transferring the wort to the mash tun.

It looks like the best profile for mashing is somewhere in the high 150s F to low 160s F to minimize beta amylase from converting too many starches to sugars while maximizing alpha amylase activity for body and mouthfeel. Is there clearing of the wort during mash? Most of the links I read mentioned that turbidity in the wort leads to scorching in the boil pot. The Briess powerpoint had a picture showing a gravity drain transfer from the mash vessel to the boil pot, and it looked like Soylent Green! Other examples showed separated and stratified layering of the wort, a bit thicker than my typical mashes, but low enough that a racking arm should be able to transfer from above the sediment. I just want to have non-viscous wort that doesn't have the color and consistency of a kale smoothie.

After conversion, transfer to the boil pot. Hops on schedule (50% of normal amount for lower IBUs to maintain balance). Concentrate on late hops. Chill, whirlpool (more hops), transfer to my unitank, oxygenate and pitch some Wyeast 1318. Is that about right? My goal is to brew something tasty and satisfying that comes in 2.5%~3.5% ABV with balanced body and hops, preferably clear. Any helpful hints or insights are appreciated.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Brooothru : I haven't brewed with this technique for a couple of years (so no additional insights and no new links to additional quality articles elsewhere). At that point, my interests in the technique involved the "spent grains", not the wort.

 

[Broothru]

@Brooothru : I haven't brewed with this technique for a couple of years (so no additional insights and no new links to additional quality articles elsewhere). At that point, my interests in the technique involved the "spent grains", not the wort.

Yeah, that piqued my interest as well; i.e., using spent grains as a sort of "reverse parti-gyle". Since the bulk of the beta and alpha amylase are still in the grain bed, throw in your favorite mix of adjuncts that typically lack the diastatic power to self convert, along with a few handfuls of your favorite base grain, and do a traditional warm mash for a very flavorful low gravity wort. Two mashes for the price of one yielding two low alcohol (but full body and taste) beers. Win-win.

I think my biggest hangup with undertaking a cold mash is the post-mash runnings being viscous and murky before heating, and whether settling the runnings will result in enough separation of solids before boiling. I'll be heating and boiling in an all-in-one electric setup, and I don't want to have this experiment result in scorching and an hours-long cleanup session.

 

[hamachi]

It looks like the best profile for mashing is somewhere in the high 150s F to low 160s F to minimize beta amylase from converting too many starches to sugars while maximizing alpha amylase activity for body and mouthfeel. Is there clearing of the wort during mash? Most of the links I read mentioned that turbidity in the wort leads to scorching in the boil pot.

My process is different from yours in that I did the cold mash for a few hours in a bag inside a 10 gallon cooler, lifted the bag and waited for suspended starch to settle out, then drained the wort into the boil pot. At this point, the wort was still quite cloudy. But to answer your question: Once I heated the pot to the conversion temperature of 150+ F and left it there a while, the wort became MUCH clearer, to the point that it looked to me like "normal" wort during the boil.

Because I gave the starch time to settle out, left so much of it behind in the cooler, and stirred the pot periodically while heating, I had no problem with scorching. If you don't settle and remove the starch sludge after the cold mash , I can see scorching as a problem on the one hand, or too high an OG on the other hand (e.g., if you stir to avoid scorching, which then results in the previously settled starch being converted). Alternatively, if you stir to avoid scorching but spend too little time in the 150-160F range, I could see how you would end up with both cloudy wort and grainy tasting beer due to incomplete conversion. In short, I think finding a way to settle and remove the starchy sludge after the cold soak is crucial for successful cold-mashed low ABV beers.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I haven't done this for quite a while.

1. I now use a 400 micron brew in a bag bag. Once I started using that it didn't scorch. But I sure scorched the hell out of my fast batch pre-400 micron bag
2. I did several batches using the spent grains + 6-row. Came out fine but not a superlative beer. I should try an AK recipe with spent grains, 6-row, bit of corn, English hops and see how that goes

I keep checking in on this thread and prolly will take a few runs again in the summer. A saison might be nice as well.

 

[Broothru]

I haven't done this for quite a while.

1. I now use a 400 micron brew in a bag bag. Once I started using that it didn't scorch. But I sure scorched the hell out of my fast batch pre-400 micron bag
2. I did several batches using the spent grains + 6-row. Came out fine but not a superlative beer. I should try an AK recipe with spent grains, 6-row, bit of corn, English hops and see how that goes

I keep checking in on this thread and prolly will take a few runs again in the summer. A saison might be nice as well.

That might be a good method to try. I've got several Swiss voile bags left over from when I used to do BIAB. I could put a BIAB bag in the all-in-one, cold soak the grain for 8 hours, pull the bag, heat to 155-160F for an hour, then boil. Save the grains for a second mash with a few specialty grains. Done deal.

My only concern would be the center post in my all-in-one (Braumeister). It uses a 'malt pipe' that inserts over a central rod with filter screens at the top and bottom. I'm trying to figure some way to drape the bag over the center post, possibly with the bag fully contained within the malt pipe with filter plates at the top and bottom of the malt pipe. With recirculation I might be able to cut down the cold mash to an hour or two, with it continuously 'vorlaufing' for a clear wort. Might be a winner!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(Bump. As I was scanning the 'interwebs' over the last couple of weeks, I noticed a couple of brewing mentioning home brewing very low ABV beer using 'cold mash' techniques.).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This web site (UltraLow Brewing Techniques) was referenced in a different topic. Adding it here so I can find it again in the future.

 

[Sotko]

Thank you to everyone who put in the work t test and share all of this! I’ve been looking for a super low ABV option for a few reasons and came across this. Is anyone still trying this?

Based on the notes in this thread, I decided to try a petite porter since I’m the hope that the darker specialty malts might mask or maybe even be complimented by the grainy results being reported. I also made some small adjustments to the process: I cold mashed at room temp for about 5 hours instead of overnight, reduced the amount of base malt a little relative to the original recipe and added some crystal.

I based my recipe on this one by TheMadKing. For a 2.5 gal batch:
3# MO
1# Munich II
1# brown malt
0.25# medium crystal
0.25# biscuit
0.5# chocolate
0.25# black

0.25 oz fuggle @30
0.75 oz fuggle @5

Fermented with wlp002

My experience was similar to others - super turbid but cleared with 30 minutes at 152. I didn’t have any scorching issues.

Came out with OG of 1.017 and an FG of 1.012. Even after bottle carbing it will finish just under 1%. I’m waiting for bottle carbing to finish (I’ll upgrade to kegging one of these days). I’ll update after it’s done, but samples tasted… like porter. A little grainy but mostly in a not unpleasant almost complimentary way.

*edit: corrected black malt in grain bill and broken link

 

[Sotko]

I just tried one of the low abv porters and it tastes like a porter. It’s a little thinner than I would like a porter, but it’s not watery. My goal wasn’t to fool anyone, but this could probably pass for a regular porter. I might taste test it against some commercial porters to see if friends can pick it out.

I don’t really get any graininess. Not sure if the 5 hour vs 12 hour mash or the lower ratio of base malt to specialty malts had an impact (this brew wasn’t really set up to isolate variables), but definitely having a style with a lot of dark specialty malts seems to work really well with this method (a handful of black malt will hide a lot). I’ll definitely brew this again, probably with some adjuncts to increase mouthfeel.

 

[brewbama]

I have my first NEM mash, a Vienna Lager, in the fridge right now for a tomorrow AM brewday. I wanted a simple beer to judge the technique.

I milled 7# base grains, added my salts, Brewtan B, and acid, mashed in with room temp deaerated RO water, and placed the primary mash tun (a repurposed bucket fermenter) in a 32°F fridge for an overnight rest.

Tomorrow AM I will head back upstairs to the brewery, hoist the grain bag out of the primary and let it drain for an hour allowing the residual starches to settle below the spigot. Then, I’ll drain the initial mash wort into the secondary MLT for the ‘high mash’ (leaving the settled starches behind in the primary mash tun). I may transfer to the kettle, heat it, then transfer to the secondary MLT. The MLT heats via HERMS so the kettle would be faster but I am not sure the speed of direct heat is my friend in this situation. The slower indirect heat of the HERMS may be better in this situation. Decisions, decisions.

Either way, after the wort is at my target (172°F) I’ll add the .5# dark grains to the grain bag, place the bag in the secondary MLT to serve as a filter, and start the recirculation for the vorlauf/hot steep/‘high mash’.

I understand removing this settled residual starch is vital to success so I’ll vorlauf until clear. I am planning at least 30 min but it could be longer.

I’ll then xfer the — hopefully — clear, very low SG, but flavorful wort to the brew kettle and continue a routine brewday.

I’ll take some pH readings along the way. I have no idea if pH even matters in a mash that I don’t want enzymes to convert starch to sugars but we’ll see what they are anyway.

My goal is a full flavor, full mouthfeel, low carb beer. I don’t want a thin, watered down beer. I‘m sure this first run will need some future adjustments and I’m OK with that. We’ll see.

ref:

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

but I am not sure the speed of direct heat is my friend in this situation

As I understand it, heating the wort from room temp to a boil often results in a ~ 1% beer beer; while a rest at ~ 152* F results in a ~ 3% beer. When I used this technique I included the rest. Obviously the results will depend on the amount of sugars from the cold extraction step.

 

[Broothru]

I have my first NEM mash, a Vienna Lager, in the fridge right now for a tomorrow AM brewday. I wanted a simple beer to judge the technique.

I milled 7# base grains, added my salts, Brewtan B, and acid, mashed in with room temp deaerated RO water, and placed the primary mash tun (a repurposed bucket fermenter) in a 32°F fridge for an overnight rest.

Tomorrow AM I will head back upstairs to the brewery, hoist the grain bag out of the primary and let it drain for an hour allowing the residual starches to settle below the spigot. Then, I’ll drain the initial mash wort into the secondary MLT for the ‘high mash’ (leaving the settled starches behind in the primary mash tun). I may transfer to the kettle, heat it, then transfer to the secondary MLT. The MLT heats via HERMS so the kettle would be faster but I am not sure the speed of direct heat is my friend in this situation. The slower indirect heat of the HERMS may be better in this situation. Decisions, decisions.

Either way, after the wort is at my target (172°F) I’ll add the .5# dark grains to the grain bag, place the bag in the secondary MLT to serve as a filter, and start the recirculation for the vorlauf/hot steep/‘high mash’.

I understand removing this settled residual starch is vital to success so I’ll vorlauf until clear. I am planning at least 30 min but it could be longer.

I’ll then xfer the — hopefully — clear, very low SG, but flavorful wort to the brew kettle and continue a routine brewday.

I’ll take some pH readings along the way. I have no idea if pH even matters in a mash that I don’t want enzymes to convert starch to sugars but we’ll see what they are anyway.

My goal is a full flavor, full mouthfeel, low carb beer. I don’t want a thin, watered down beer. I‘m sure this first run will need some future adjustments and I’m OK with that. We’ll see.

ref:

Really anxious to hearing about your successes/shortcomings with this process. I’ve been wanting to try it myself. I do question the temperature however (32F). Thought the target was more like low to mid 40s F.

My hangup so far is mashing ‘low O2’ since I’m thinking I’d cold mash BIAB in a Brew Bucket, suspend the bag to drain, then let the starches settle to the bottom before the starch conversion mash. Still trying to sort out how I’ll work the process, given my gear and my focus on LoDO.

 

[brewbama]

I also try to brew Low(er) O2. I won’t say I’m full blown LoDo but I do take steps in an effort. …but my goal is low carb in this beer so I had to make a cpl sacrifices.

My OG into the fermenter is 1.027 — a bit higher than I anticipated. Of course it depends on how low the 34/70 slurry takes it to FG, but I am planning on ~3% ABV ~5.5 carb beer. By contrast this same grain bill would be ~4.5% ABV and ~11 carbs Using my Low(er) O2 processes.

I have some ideas on how to take it lower carb next time. Not so much base malt and more specialty grain will probably be a start depending on the body of this beer.

 

[Broothru]

Those are about the final numbers I’m looking for as well for carbs and ABV. Keep us posted.

I just came across the first commercial “cold brewed” beer I’ve seen on the shelf. It was an iteration of Founder’s ‘All Day IPA.’ Got a couple in the beer fridge right now. I rather like the Founder’s regular IPA.

 

[brewbama]

As I understand it, heating the wort from room temp to a boil often results in a ~ 1% beer beer; while a rest at ~ 152* F results in a ~ 3% beer. When I used this technique I included the rest. Obviously the results will depend on the amount of sugars from the cold extraction step.

I’ve been thinking about your comment and I believe this is one reason my mash resulted in a higher OG than I anticipated. I imagine I’ll get ~3% as you say because I heated slowly via HERMS.

I may alter my technique next time by mashing at room temp (or cooler) until I no longer see an increase in SG via regular sampling, recirculating the entire time, then transfer to the boil kettle and heat the wort quickly to a boil. On my next NEM, I will forgo the overnight refrigerated mash.

does this sound plausible?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I may alter my technique next time by mashing at room temp (or cooler) until I no longer see an increase in SG via regular sampling, recirculating the entire time, then transfer to the boil kettle and heat the wort quickly to a boil. On my next NEM, I will forgo the overnight refrigerated mash.

does this sound plausible?

focusing on the bolded phrases: With cold steeping (crystal malt, light roasted malts), over the past year, I did some short cold steeps, measuring OG and observing color changes. Grains were double crushed. I would shake/stir the malts ever 5 or 10 minutes. I found that OG was stable after about 30 minutes.

It seems plausible that 'cold steeping' base malts and recirculating would have similar results - most of the extraction may be done in an hour or so.

 

[brewbama]

Well, the taste test of the NEM Vienna Lager is less than stellar. It just tastes… weird. Kind of a soap flavor or something. I’m going to give it some more time but at this point it’s a dumper.

It makes me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. My goal remains low(er) carb, full flavor beer but I am concerned this may not be the path forward.

Of course, the possibility exists that I can improve on the process so I will try again, but I am at a crossroads right now. Second guessing myself. The best bet may be brew a small grain bill and/or use enzymes. IDK

 

[Broothru]

Well, the taste test of the NEM Vienna Lager is less than stellar. It just tastes… weird. Kind of a soap flavor or something. I’m going to give it some more time but at this point it’s a dumper.

It makes me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. My goal remains low(er) carb, full flavor beer but I am concerned this may not be the path forward.

Of course, the possibility exists that I can improve on the process so I will try again, but I am at a crossroads right now. Second guessing myself. The best bet may be brew a small grain bill and/or use enzymes. IDK

Bummer. I too have been hoping for a magical elixir, or at least a process to make a low carb/ABV beer. I did brew a Brut IPA a while back with amyloglucosidaise that did well in a comp, but it tasted like a Mich Ultra. I’d hoped that cold mash low enzyme would be the silver bullet.

 

[Alan Reginato]

I just saw this thread. I will save it, because I liked the idea. On winter, South hemisphere, I will give it a try. I shall share my perceptions.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Related to #202, there is some discussion on cold steeping / extraction in a topic over in AHA forums (link). I spend some time looking for the "Dr Fix" quote to see if there was additional discussion - it appears to have been in a section of HBD that wasn't captured by "Internet Archives" - see /1/ & /2/ for additional copies and links to the "Dr Fix" quote.

 

[Agent]

Posting now so I don't lose this thread again.

This spring, I tried out a cold mash American amber. It had a number of shortcomings, but proved that the concept had merit.

Last week I brewed up a cold mash porter, and I'm getting ready to rack it into a keg soon. I will follow up with my process and tasting notes to keep discussion of this process alive.

 

[Agent]

So my latest endeavor was for something with hefty flavor to help drown out my likely shortcomings with this new process. I settled on a recipe of:
7lbs dark (15 srm) Munich
8oz Crystal 60
8 oz Chocolate (350 srm) malt

I performed a 2 hr mash at 65F as a no-sparge BIAB with 6.5 gallons of RO water. With no salt additions, I measured a pH of 5.5 at the end of the mash. I ran the wort straight up to boil, and added 0.5 oz of homegrown Willamette for 30 minutes, and another 1 oz for a 30 minute flameout.

In the end, I had 4.75 gallons of 1.022 OG wort, and I pitched a decanted quart slurry of US-05 yeast. That meant a 35% efficiency. The kettle had a thick sludge layer which would easily have wreaked havoc on a gas fired setup.

In racking to the keg tonight, my initial tasting is that there is a mild grainy-ness, but it's blended into the crystal and chocolate malt flavors which seem to balance out as a light porter or a roasty brown. My FG is 1.010 which gives me 1.6% ABV. What is likely to be the next difficult step is balancing the carbonation level, as I don't think it will take much to throw the whole thing out of balance.

I'll report as this carbonates up, but I've got a feeling this is going to be a big win for me in the NEM method.