Low bucks motorized grain mill

[MerlinWerks]

Mine starts immediately with the pot on full. I have all but two rails tied together for a total of four or five.

 

[J_Hanna]

Consumed with guilt and remorse I hurried home from work today and hooked up the DC gear motor.
Not having 4 pounds of grain to test on, I loaded the 1 pound I had on hand and using a heavy brick tamped that pound of grain down to simulate a heavier load.
Much to my chagrin the 3A power supply didn't live up to my hopes and dreams, argh! It tried, bless it's heart, but it did that pulsing stuff you referred to. Next I hooked up a 23A 12V supply I had waiting in the wings and that bad boy did the job with flying colors!



So apologies to all for the bad intel on the correct size of power supply.

For what's it's worth when I ran the hopper empty with the 3A PS I tried stopping the shaft from turning by holding onto the coupler and squeezing as hard as I could and it didn't even slow down, apparently that's not a good way to test it...

I took another shaky video of the test run, if anyone wants to see it let me know and I will e-mail it to you.

 

[Spellman]

Mine starts immediately with the pot on full. I have all but two rails tied together for a total of four or five.

Hmm, that should do it. Not to belittle you or anything, but you are sure you have the +12v (yellow I think) hooked up? Just trying to get a baseline for troubleshooting what could be going on with these.

J Hanna, I'm glad you got it working! I was beginning to wonder if the build quality of these motors was lacking, which is why science & surplus got a hold of them cheap. Now the question, which will you ultimately use?

 

[MerlinWerks]

Hmm, that should do it. Not to belittle you or anything, but you are sure you have the +12v (yellow I think) hooked up? Just trying to get a baseline for troubleshooting what could be going on with these.

No offense taken, it doesn't hurt to double-check, I do have the +12V (yellow) wires tied together.

J_HANNA

Although I understand your point of view please don't feel bad, on my account anyway. I knew this would be an experimental venture and was fully prepared to accept the consequences good or bad. And it looks like this will still fly, I'll look forward to your future results. I should be able to borrow a lab supply from work to do some more testing myself.

 

[Spellman]

Well in that case that super sucks! I was planning on trying an atx supply myself when I get some time to rip it out of one of my graveyard computers. Hopefully it will work. That would be awesome to try out the lab supply. Does it by chance have any readout on what current is being drawn? That would be super awesome and helpful!

And yes, I'm not too worried either about this little endeavor, it wasn't very expensive and has been fun trying to get to the bottom of it. In theory and on paper this motor should work, its just a matter of finding what we need to make it do so!

 

[J_Hanna]

Hmm, that should do it. Not to belittle you or anything, but you are sure you have the +12v (yellow I think) hooked up? Just trying to get a baseline for troubleshooting what could be going on with these.

J Hanna, I'm glad you got it working! I was beginning to wonder if the build quality of these motors was lacking, which is why science & surplus got a hold of them cheap. Now the question, which will you ultimately use?

The DC motor running at 180 RPM munched through that pound of grain in like 15 seconds, a noticeable speed improvement. Since it's already hooked up and ready to go I'll just keep the AC motor as a back up. Cheers!

 

[MerlinWerks]

Consumed with guilt and remorse I hurried home from work today and hooked up the DC gear motor.
Not having 4 pounds of grain to test on, I loaded the 1 pound I had on hand and using a heavy brick tamped that pound of grain down to simulate a heavier load.
Much to my chagrin the 3A power supply didn't live up to my hopes and dreams, argh! It tried, bless it's heart, but it did that pulsing stuff you referred to. Next I hooked up a 23A 12V supply I had waiting in the wings and that bad boy did the job with flying colors!

Unfortunately, still no joy here. I used a 50A bench supply, loaded 1lb of grain and it still wouldn't go. Meter on the supply registered 10A which is what the controller is limited to, but it just stalled. It would work if I started with an empty hopper and slowly poured the grain in, but obviously that is not practical. So maybe I got a sub-par motor or the 10" rollers on my JSP MaltMill present a more difficult load than your mill. The gap is fixed at .035" so I'm not trying to mill too fine, a hand drill turns it with no problem with a 16Lb. load in the hopper.

 

[Spellman]

What if you wired it straight to the supply and bypass the controller. The controller is rated for 10a, but I wouldn't think there is anything on it that would prevent a higher current, you just run the risk of frying it. I could totally be wrong and it has a limiter of some sorts though!

 

[MerlinWerks]

Good idea, I'll try that next. The current output on the psu is variable so I could start out low and ramp it up.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Tried it tonight without the controller and just the bench supply, a little better. Did a cold start with 3/4 lb., it did go though it, albeit very slowly, I'd guess around 60 rpm. Never drew more than 8A or so.

 

[Spellman]

That's great you got it functional! It also good to get a baseline so we have an idea of the ballpark for the current drawn. As for the speed, visually 190 rpm isn't spectacular. I didn't feel that mine was going much faster than the 63 rpm ac motor. I placed a coupler on the shaft to make it easier to see. I then set a timer and began counting. After about 15 or 20 seconds I gave up as it obviously was the 190 or close to it. Most drills on the low speed seting are around 400-500 rpm, which is actually a little faster than ideal. I'm getting super anxious to find time to continue tinkering with this motor.

 

[J_Hanna]

Here are links to my test run videos.

The AC motor...

http://www.perardua.net/misc/brew/ACMotor.mp4

The DC motor with the 23A power supply...

http://www.perardua.net/misc/brew/23A.mp4

Excuse the shake!

Let me know if you have any problems accessing the files...

 

[MerlinWerks]

That's great you got it functional! It also good to get a baseline so we have an idea of the ballpark for the current drawn. As for the speed, visually 190 rpm isn't spectacular.

I get your point about the visuals, but my motor definitely spins faster unloaded, I'm assuming at it's rated 190 rpm. My drill is variable speed and I would guess I typically run it somewhere between 60 - 180 rpm.

J_HANNA

Thanks for the videos. I'd say my DC motor under load is turning at the rate of your AC motor. I'll look forward to your results after you get a few full crushes under your belt. Where did you get the 23A supply, although I can't imagine the bench supply I'm using wouldn't be adequate, it's old school analog, weighing in at 50 Lb. or so. If worse comes to worse, I suppose I could send you my motor to see if performs as well as yours.

 

[J_Hanna]

MerlinWerks,
I borrowed it from work. My day job is repairing slot machines and those 12V supplies are used to power almost everything in the cabinet; lights, reels, ticket printers, etc.

There are several on Amazon that look similar but I doubt if they are the same quality.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Any updates from anyone?

 

[Spellman]

Got busy with work, then thanksgiving, then work again. Got a few batches in here and there with the ac motor which works even better with the 5 mfd cap I got for it, only quite slow. Haven't had the time to do much with the dc motor yet. Need to chop the shaft down (should take about 30 sec), and then get it mounted for correct height (could go quick, could need a few runs to the store). My atx power supply made it turn with no load, but we will see. I now have a heavy duty car battery charger that I could throw it on in the event the atx wasn't enough. Actually tomorrow or friday I may have time to tinker a bit!

 

[Hunky]

I should provide a couple pics, maybe tomorrow or so, but I found a couple motors I am going to give a try - both 120v. Giving this info just in case someone else might be able to scrounge something similar. Anyway - first one was at our local gym. I know the guy who runs it and he said he had a couple treadmills in the back I could part out as they were going to the dump otherwise. I looked at the motor that runs the track but it was big, 240 volt, and not dust proof. But the motor that raises and lowers the ramp - that one looks promising so I grabbed a couple. They cost me a 6-pack of home brew IPA. They look very similar to J Hanna's car seat motor. Don't yet know the rpm.

The other motor I got last night was a guy replacing his garage door opener. The gear had sheared off so he just gave it to me. It has a 1/2" shaft, is 1/2 hp (Sears), and seems like it might work. Works fine otherwise. Only problem is it isn't a dust proof motor.. but I will build a little shelter for it and it should be fine - not worried about it overheating much or if it does, can add a foam protected fan.

So one of these might work if not both. I have a wood shop so probably can find other uses otherwise. cheers, JD

 

[Spellman]

Just did a test with the 12v dc motor...success! I put 3 lbs of 2 row in the hopper and turned it on, and it chewed it all up just fine! I had it wired directly into a dell 250w atx computer power supply (I believe it maxes out at 16A), and then I had the ps unit wired to a switch. In my test it didn't seem to bog down too much at any time, although while milling grain I don't believe it was doing the full 190rpm, but it was spinning at a constant speed. In the end it was much faster than the 63rpm ac motor. I plan to do another batch soon and I'll report back how it works with a full hopper and a longer run.

 

[J_Hanna]

Glad to hear the DC motor works with the ATX p/s, those are usually easy to come by. As for myself the cold weather has kept me out of the shop so the brew stand is on hold for now. Fortunately I've cellared quite a bit of grog over the last 5 or 6 brews so I'm not overly unhappy about putting the project on hold for decent weather. Since I've been stuck inside I've been working on another project, a DIY digital thermometer. I should be posting about that in a couple of days. Cheers!

 

[Spellman]

Did a full hopper with a cold start, worked great, took 3:15 from start to finish. I milled about 20lbs this morning and the external temp was 117*. I'm sure that is well within its operating conditions when you think about it being used inside a car on a hot summer day. When I finally get around to making a mill stand I think I need to beef up the bracket a bit as it wobbles and twists a bit under load, but other than that it works amazing and with appropriate speed!

 

[Spellman]

Little update, finally got my mill/weigh station all set up. It is a 2x12 box that was scavenged from an old project. I can place two buckets underneath. I really like having the scale on the side as well. Wired in a switch on the atx itself and mounted to the side of the cart. I ran the wire through the top by the motor and along the underside, then out the side. Everything is sleek and most of it I had lying around. Has been working great, but did have the motor seize up on me once. I think it was a stick or rock, but flipped it on and off a few times and away it went. The most I have done was 35 lbs at one go, motor got pretty hot, forgot to measure temp. I think next time I may give it a few minutes in between to cool down. One of these days I'll get around to pulling the plastic off the mill casing!

 

[Stealthcruiser]

I have forgotten from previous, in the thread........Is that an electric window or electric seat motor, from a car?

 

[Spellman]

Electric Seat Motor

 

[J_Hanna]

Nice job Spellman!

 

[J_Hanna]

SciPlus has the 12VDC car seat motor back in stock and they are currently on sale for $12.85 plus $6 S&H

http://www.sciplus.com/p/CAR-SEAT-312VDC-GEAR-MOTOR_49248

 

[SevenOaks]

So I ordered the car seat motor and it arrived today. The other components are all still on order. I have a question about the controller, though. Is it required? I briefly test-hooked up the motor to a 12-volt battery and it spun just fine. I reversed the leads and it spun the other direction. What exactly does the controller do for you?

 

[J_Hanna]

So I ordered the car seat motor and it arrived today. The other components are all still on order. I have a question about the controller, though. Is it required? I briefly test-hooked up the motor to a 12-volt battery and it spun just fine. I reversed the leads and it spun the other direction. What exactly does the controller do for you?

In addition to an on/off/on switch ( for direction control ) it also gives you speed control and voltage regulation. The last two probably aren't critical for this application as you'll probably want to run full speed most of the time and the motor appears to be rugged enough to handle the occasional voltage spike. I suppose I was being overcautious when I put mine together, when you work with electronics everyday you tend to do that!

 

[eastoak]

is there any consensus as to what power supply to use? the amazon power supply has a few bad reviews pertaining to the power supply overheating or not putting out the 6 amps claimed. i want to order a motor and give this a shot since the total money invested is so low and it looks like a couple of guys on here have made it work.

 

[J_Hanna]

is there any consensus as to what power supply to use? the amazon power supply has a few bad reviews pertaining to the power supply overheating or not putting out the 6 amps claimed. i want to order a motor and give this a shot since the total money invested is so low and it looks like a couple of guys on here have made it work.

When I switched from the AC motor to the DC motor I tried a 3 amp power supply which was not enough power, I then hooked up a 30 amp power supply which worked great. Spellman used an PC ATX power supply on his set up but I don't think we ever determined the minimum amperage/wattage needed.
ATX power supplies go for about $15 and up on Amazon.

 

[azscoob]

A car seat motor...... Brilliant!!

They have enough torque to move fat people in their seats, I imagine they have enough torque for a mill.

And I can get plenty of them from work, I have replaced several seat frames recently because of occupancy sensor failures.