Loquat Florida Weisse

[TheJasonT]

Greetings!

I was in my backyard the other day and I noticed that my neighbor has a 50' tall tree full of these little fruits. I used to think they were kumquats but I recently found out that they are Loquats, also known as Chinese pears. I picked a few and found out that they are delicious.

Then I thought to myself, "Self, you have yet to brew a sour beer. You're not the biggest fan of them but you live in Florida and you don't want to drink a ridiculously high ABV IPA all day, although Jai Alai is AMAZEBALLS. Why don't you use those fruits and make yourself a sour beer??"

So, that's what I'm doing. Here's the plan:

1. Start a sour culture with pure Lactobacillus delbrueckii from a vial of WLP677. Step it up from 500ml to 1000ml to 2000ml over the course of a week or so. Use a heating pad connected to my STC-1000 to keep the temp at about 110F or 43C.

2. Mash a 50/50 blend of pilsner and white wheat at 154 for an hour, obtain about 6.5 gallons of wort. Cool to below 120F and pitch the lacto culture in the kettle. Purge oxygen with CO2, tape the lid shut, and use the heating pad to keep the temp at 110F for 36-48 hours until the taste is pleasantly sour.

Option: split off a gallon and add a handful of 2-row to get some complexity from the other bugs.

3. Boil for 20 minutes with 1lb of Loquats, add an ounce of Cascades at 10min, then cool to 65F and ferment with US-05 dry. Since it is a sour beer, I'm not going to be reusing the yeast (just in case), so a packet of US-05 is the cheapest (read: easy) option.

4. Primary ferment at 65F for a week with a half pound of loquats. Since the active primary ferment will likely blow off any flavor or other compounds, I'm only using a small amount in primary.

5. Secondary ferment on at least 2lbs of loquats. They have a very pleasant and delicious sweet/sour flavor and I really want that to come through.

6. Carbonate to 3-ish volumes in the keg. No finings, want to keep that pleasant haziness typical of a Berliner.

Stats:
OG: 1.041
FG: 1.010 (or lower)
ABV: 4.1%
IBU: 9.7
Batch size: 5.5 Gallons

Grist:
5lbs Briess Pilsner
5lbs Breiss White Wheat

Hops:
Cascade 6% AA 15mins

Yeast:
US-05

Bugs:
WLP677 lactobacillis delbrueckii

Fruits:
Loquat, 1lb, boil 15min
Loquat, .5lb, primary ferment
Loquat, 2lbs, secondary ferment

Cheers! I've attached a picture of a loquat so you can stop scratching your heads!

 

[Jupapabear]

I have a huge Loquat tree in my front yard, and it's still not ripe yet. I was thinking of doing something similar. subb'd

 

[gregkeller]

You know, traditionally berliner weisse is served with woodruff or raspberry syrup. What about making the base beer the way you've outlined which sounds perfect, and then making a syrup out of the fruit and just adding a dollop of it when you pour a pint.

 

[TheJasonT]

Oh that's an excellent thought. This months BYO has a large section on sours and syrups so that's perfect timing!


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[allenH]

"Florida Weisse" is gaining popularity, especially in Tampa and South Florida. I had the opportunity to try a few from J Wakefield an Gravity Brewlab at Hunahpu Day this year, and I have been trying to research them since. I read an interview with J Wakefield and he said he uses 1-2lb fruit per gallon during secondary, depending on how strong the fruits flavor is. I brewed up a quick 3gal experimental batch a couple of weeks ago (handful of grains, hold at 100 degrees method), I'm just trying to nail down the fruit portion now.

 

[Calder]

I don't know what you gain with

starter with lacto. Once it is going, it will tear through it.

Boiling fruit will set pectins.

'Other bugs' in grain are undesirable. Get the souroess from lacto and do not add anthing else.

Make sure it is sour before adding yeast.

Keep IBUs at zero fior the lacto. Why do you need any?

 

[kingwood-kid]

I don't know what you gain with starter with lacto. Once it is going, it will tear through it.

Boiling fruit will set pectins.

'Other bugs' in grain are undesirable. Get the souroess from lacto and do not add anthing else.

Make sure it is sour before adding yeast.

Keep IBUs at zero fior the lacto. Why do you need any?

I agree with 1, 2, and 4. Especially 2. Boiling the fruit will also drive off plenty of aroma and flavor. Just add it to secondary and you'll be fine.

I've never used a store-bought culture to sour (unless you count acidophilus pills), just a handful of grain. It turns out quite tasty and extremely sour. From what I've read, the lab cultures don't get all that sour. As for IBUs, since you're adding them after the lacto has done it's work, you don't have to worry about the hops inhibiting the lacto; being boiled should inhibit it enough. However, I don't think you really need to add any IBUs. You can, of course, but sour and bitter aren't great together.

 

[ArcaneXor]

You know, traditionally berliner weisse is served with woodruff or raspberry syrup.

What makes a Florida Weisse distinct from a "regular" Berliner is that it is fermented with fruit (usually tropical or subtropical stuff that grows in Florida).

 

[gregkeller]

What makes a Florida Weisse distinct from a "regular" Berliner is that it is fermented with fruit (usually tropical or subtropical stuff that grows in Florida).

Cool, didn't know "florida Weisse" was an actual thing. Gotta check it out next time i'm in Fla.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Cool, didn't know "florida Weisse" was an actual thing. Gotta check it out next time i'm in Fla.

They're trying to make it a thing. It's part marketing, part tongue-in-cheek take on the whole Cascadian Dark Ale debate (think Festina Peche, for instance, which definitely it not Floridian, and has been commercially available for years). I don't think its supporters are pushing for the creation of a new style in the BJCP or GABF; it's just a subcategory of sour Fruit Beer. Most of them are delicious!

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

They're trying to make it a thing. It's part marketing, part tongue-in-cheek take on the whole Cascadian Dark Ale debate (think Festina Peche, for instance, which definitely it not Floridian, and has been commercially available for years). I don't think its supporters are pushing for the creation of a new style in the BJCP or GABF; it's just a subcategory of sour Fruit Beer. Most of them are delicious!

Its a fruited Berliner. The whole Florida Weisse style thing is just silly

 

[allenH]

Its a fruited Berliner. The whole Florida Weisse style thing is just silly

Fuzzy, shouldn't you be shoveling a driveway or putting snow tires on something?
If Festina Peche is a fruited berliner, then Kryptoweisse, Miami Madness, Rainbow Jelly Donut, ect ect are something else entirely, and probably deserves it's own subcategory. We don't have to call it Florida Weisse, we can call it Western Michigan Weisse, that's where all the subtropical fruit comes from anyway

 

[kingwood-kid]

Pretty sure the correct name is Miami Weisse.

 

[allenH]

Pretty sure the correct name is Miami Weisse.

From the Miami New Times, pretty sure they would have called it Miami Weisse.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I'm not arguing about what the brewers call it. I'm saying I'm pretty sure the correct name is Miami Weisse.

 

[allenH]

I'm not arguing about what the brewers call it. I'm saying I'm pretty sure the correct name is Miami Weisse.

Agreed, that would have been a much better name. Crockett and Tubbs would have loved over fruited Berliners

 

[Calichusetts]

Pretty sure the correct name is Miami Weisse.

You win the internet...

 

[Jupapabear]

you win the internet...

+1

 

[TheJasonT]

Does anyone have experience with modifying heating pads? I have one hooked up to my STC-1000 to try and keep the temp at 110F for my Lacto culture but I'm not having any luck because the 1-hour auto shutoff is keeping the STC-1000 from being about to control the temp right.

I want to either modify the controller or remove the whole damn thing and replace it with a rheostat in a tiny box. I've searched some threads on forums for reptile owners that use them to keep their snakes and such warm but I think this pad is different.

 

[allenH]

Does anyone have experience with modifying heating pads? I have one hooked up to my STC-1000 to try and keep the temp at 110F for my Lacto culture but I'm not having any luck because the 1-hour auto shutoff is keeping the STC-1000 from being about to control the temp right.

I want to either modify the controller or remove the whole damn thing and replace it with a rheostat in a tiny box. I've searched some threads on forums for reptile owners that use them to keep their snakes and such warm but I think this pad is different.

No experience with heating pads, but a lot of people have good luck with the light bulb in a paint can using the STC-1000, there is a simple build somewhere in the DIY thread

 

[TheJasonT]

Right, I'm aware of that technique. Problem is that I'm only trying to keep about 600ml of culture warm, not 6 gallons... Thanks for the input!


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[allenH]

Right, I'm aware of that technique. Problem is that I'm only trying to keep about 600ml of culture warm, not 6 gallons... Thanks for the input!


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Gotcha, there are so many different ways to do Berliners. I went the full sour wort method using 1/4lb grains tossed in, I maintained temp in a 4gal pot placed in my oven with the oven light on for 24 hours. I was kind of shocked that the measured temp was 104 after 24 hours. I would have soured for 48 hours, but the krausen was pushing the lid up on the pot, and I had to make dinner, haha.
I actually just added the fruit to mine about an hour ago3lbs raspberries and 1lb of sliced limes for a 3gal batch.

 

[TheJasonT]

I did the first half of the brew day on this today. I kind of like splitting up a brew day!

A very simple mash, 5lbs each of Breiss Pilsner and White Wheat malts, 1.5qts/lb, and a fly sparge to collect 6 gallons. Calculated my mash for 152, hit 151 and finished at 149. Didn't bother doing a decoction or mashout, too much work. Collected 6 gallons of wort at about 1.035.

In discussions with local pro brewers, one told me that in his homebrew days, he would do his sour beers by collecting wort, then pitching a lacto culture at 120-125, then maintaining that temperature by firing the kettle every 4-6 hours over 2-ish days. That's the technique I'm using. He also added that purging the kettle with CO2 and covering with plastic wrap is a great way to keep oxygen out and prevent Acetobacter and Clostridium infections.

I finished my work today about 7pm with the temp at about 122. I came back about 10:30 and fired the kettle to raise the temp to 120 again. I'll leave it, wrapped in a blanket, until tomorrow (Monday) morning.

I'll check sourness as I go, and when it gets to a nice tartness, I'll pull a sample to save as a starter for next time, then do my brief boil, chill, and pitch US-05 as per the recipe.

Cheers!

 

[Oophaga]

I have been itching to do a Florida weisse, even have 8 lbs of blueberries from a friends farm in north Florida for it. Just so much uncertainty I haven't dove in yet.

 

[TheJasonT]

Go for it! It's what I did, and I'm very pleased. I ended going for more tropical fruits (strawberry, mango, kiwi, and papaya). It's fermenting now. It tastes like fruit juice right now.

A hint, do not add the fruit to the boil. I had the WORST clog ever in my ball valves because of the mango. If I were you, take all of those beautiful blueberries, briefly boil them with a little orange juice, and add them to secondary. The OJ will add a little more tartness, and you'll get a beautiful bluish purple beer.


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