I brewed a batch last May and one thing led to another where this paticular batch has ended up sitting in the carboy since then. It's an Amber IPA but I just don't know what it's going to be like if I try and bottle or keg it now. Any thoughts? How long is too long to have a beer sit in fermenter on yeast cake? If any, what changes should I expect from this now? Thanks for the help all, really hope I haven't wasted this one away.
Loooong Fermentation
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crysond
Active Member
taste it, it will probably taste like dead yeast(kinda like soy sauce).
Keeping beer on the yeast for too long causes autolysis(yeast death) which contributes off flavors.
Keeping beer on the yeast for too long causes autolysis(yeast death) which contributes off flavors.
dustinstriplin
Well-Known Member
Is the airlock dry? The best way to find out if it's good is to taste it. It won't hurt you.
Taste it and find out. The hop profile is certainly going to be different. I once left a rice wine on yeast for 4 months. It definitely had off, meaty, flavors going on. The beer may mask some of that, but expect some damage sitting for 7-8 months in primary. Hopefully it want dry hopped that long.
People have left their beer's in primary for a year or more, and their beer's have turned out fine. I've left beers in primary as long as you, and they've been some of the best beer's I've ever made. If your yeast is healthy, and your temps were good, more than likely you're beer is perfectly.
There's HUNDREDS of threads on here where folks have left their beers in primary for a long time, and contrary to what crysond in typical noobish fashion believes, their beer DID NOT taste like soy sauce or dead yeast.
Read this, and you'll see that even John Palmer, who caused the whole autolysis panic among new brewers like you has retracted his views on it....
Nowadays even many instructions, in BYO magazine, and even some kits suggest a long primary as opposed to using a secondary. So it's pretty obviously that they're not buying that bogeyman anymore either.
I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread.
To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .
Autolysis is not the inevitable end of healthy yeast. It is the unnatural end that is a product of yeast health...like peritinitus or even cancer in us....it is an abberation....UNHEALTHY AND STRESSED yeast autolyse... but rarely do we have unhealthy yeast these days, most of the yeast we pitch is fresh...and unless we are making a huge beer, even underpitching will not NECESSARILY produce stressed out yeast. Or stressed out yeast that will automatically autlolyse....
Most yeast that folks call dead, is actually dormant. Like most of what's in the bottom of the fermenter when fermentation is complete. Or the bottle when bottle conditioning is complete.
And the yeast is indeed dead, a lot of it is canibalized by the living yeast. And the rest, if the yeast was healthy to begin with, is just dead....think of it as natural causes, it's not necessarily spilling it's "intestinal" goop into our beer.
As Palmer and Jamil have said it is a RARE occurance these days that yeast actually dies anymore, let alone actually autolyses. It just goes dormant when the job is done and waits for the next round of sugar (much like when we pitch on top of the old yeast cake- which even some commercial brewers do for multiple generations.) The cells rarely rupture and die off.
It's not like in the 70's years ago (when most of those opinions that about autolysis originated from) when our hobby was still illegal, and there wasn't a lot of FRESH yeast available to us. The yeast used in hobby brewing was usually in cake form, which came from Germany and England in hot cargo ships and may have sat on a store shelf for a long time....or the brewer just used bread yeast.
Palmer even said this in the broadcast I quote from above-
Yeast in the 21st century is much healthier to begin with, and is less prone to have issues like their cells autolysing....just like our own health tends to be better these days.
Many of us leave our beers a MINIMUM of 1 month before racking or bottling, folks have left their beers in primary for a year or more with no issues. This is not something these days that most brewers (except noobs just stumbling onto Palmer's free book,) worry about.
And people have consumed bottle conditioned beers that were over 100 years old and the word "autolysis" never entered the equation.....
Taste your beer and SEE how it is. It may be the best beer you've ever had...
There's HUNDREDS of threads on here where folks have left their beers in primary for a long time, and contrary to what crysond in typical noobish fashion believes, their beer DID NOT taste like soy sauce or dead yeast.
Read this, and you'll see that even John Palmer, who caused the whole autolysis panic among new brewers like you has retracted his views on it....
Nowadays even many instructions, in BYO magazine, and even some kits suggest a long primary as opposed to using a secondary. So it's pretty obviously that they're not buying that bogeyman anymore either.
I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread.
To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .
Autolysis is not the inevitable end of healthy yeast. It is the unnatural end that is a product of yeast health...like peritinitus or even cancer in us....it is an abberation....UNHEALTHY AND STRESSED yeast autolyse... but rarely do we have unhealthy yeast these days, most of the yeast we pitch is fresh...and unless we are making a huge beer, even underpitching will not NECESSARILY produce stressed out yeast. Or stressed out yeast that will automatically autlolyse....
Most yeast that folks call dead, is actually dormant. Like most of what's in the bottom of the fermenter when fermentation is complete. Or the bottle when bottle conditioning is complete.
And the yeast is indeed dead, a lot of it is canibalized by the living yeast. And the rest, if the yeast was healthy to begin with, is just dead....think of it as natural causes, it's not necessarily spilling it's "intestinal" goop into our beer.
As Palmer and Jamil have said it is a RARE occurance these days that yeast actually dies anymore, let alone actually autolyses. It just goes dormant when the job is done and waits for the next round of sugar (much like when we pitch on top of the old yeast cake- which even some commercial brewers do for multiple generations.) The cells rarely rupture and die off.
It's not like in the 70's years ago (when most of those opinions that about autolysis originated from) when our hobby was still illegal, and there wasn't a lot of FRESH yeast available to us. The yeast used in hobby brewing was usually in cake form, which came from Germany and England in hot cargo ships and may have sat on a store shelf for a long time....or the brewer just used bread yeast.
Palmer even said this in the broadcast I quote from above-
Yeast in the 21st century is much healthier to begin with, and is less prone to have issues like their cells autolysing....just like our own health tends to be better these days.
Many of us leave our beers a MINIMUM of 1 month before racking or bottling, folks have left their beers in primary for a year or more with no issues. This is not something these days that most brewers (except noobs just stumbling onto Palmer's free book,) worry about.
And people have consumed bottle conditioned beers that were over 100 years old and the word "autolysis" never entered the equation.....
Taste your beer and SEE how it is. It may be the best beer you've ever had...
Caveman3141
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In an IPA that's been sitting in primary that long I'd be more concerned about all of your bittering and aromatic compounds having decayed.
Otherwise you might as well taste it and see what it's like. Personally I'd only keep a beer on the yeast a few months at most but that's mostly because I've not seen or heard of any practical, useful reason to do so longer.
Otherwise you might as well taste it and see what it's like. Personally I'd only keep a beer on the yeast a few months at most but that's mostly because I've not seen or heard of any practical, useful reason to do so longer.
i agree. the beer will probably be fine but it would be interesting to know if it still tastes like an ipa should. let us know.
hopmonster2189
Well-Known Member
Dry hop?
crysond
Active Member
Autolysis is still a very real factor, i'm speaking from experience. But overall the surefire answer is taste the beer; if its good keep it, if its not don't.
Taste the beer. It will be one of 3 things, not drinkable, drinkable but not IPA style anymore (personally I think most likely) and right on IPA target.
A beersmith podcast on hops, the guest mentioned that the hops flavor changes or 'decays' over time and the alpha acid mellows, but that the beta acid becomes more bitter. This is why I think the IPA will not taste IPA anymore.
As for dry hoping, that might work, although alpha acid has to be isomerized with heat to aid in disolving into solution - this is why we boil.
A beersmith podcast on hops, the guest mentioned that the hops flavor changes or 'decays' over time and the alpha acid mellows, but that the beta acid becomes more bitter. This is why I think the IPA will not taste IPA anymore.
As for dry hoping, that might work, although alpha acid has to be isomerized with heat to aid in disolving into solution - this is why we boil.
jb3218
Well-Known Member
I have a question about long fermentation. I made a Irish stout three weeks ago using WLP004 Irish ale yeast. I let it ferment in the primary for one week then racked to secondary. It has been in the secondary for two weeks now and I'm still getting fermentation (1 bubble about every 30-40 sec.) In the past when I used dry yeast it never went this long. Is this because I used a liquid yeast instead of dry? Keep in mind I have no problem waiting for the ferm. to stop. Just curious. I did use a starter with yeast nutrient and used a stir plate, if that makes a difference.
had you left it on the yeast it might have been properly fermented by now. when you move the beer off of the yeast before fermentation is complete the remaining yeast (fewer in number) have to finish up at a slower pace.
dannylerch
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so, did you taste it?
jb3218
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. I'll keep that in mind next time. Thanks!
jb3218
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. I'll keep that in mind next time. Thanks!
