Looking for input on Imperial stout ingredients

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mickaweapon
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I would like to brew some different all grain recipes of imperial stouts over the winter to give away next year or the year after and I would like to know which specialty grain combinations might give the stout a more complex lingering taste than just using one or two specialty malts. I have both pale brewer's malt or Maris Otter malt but I am open to trying a different base malt too.

I have used roasted barley, black patent malt, some crystal malt and chocolate malt to make good imperial stouts but these have usually produced a more uniform taste when sipping instead of something more complex. Perhaps using carafa ma;t, special malt, special B, aeromatic malt, victory malt, biscuit malt might be options but i don't want to make a kitchen sink type of recipe. I would like to avoid a harsh strong bitter taste though because I will be giving these away and not everyone might like it that way. Thank you.
 
Definitely use Maris Otter or another English pale as a base malt. This gives you a backbone of flavor that specialty malts can build on. Regular 2-row is a missed opportunity.

Roasted barley and chocolate malts are appropriate for an Imperial Stout. Consider chocolate rye, which adds a lot of flavor but not any roast astringency. For crystal, use English, which has a ton of flavor compared to standard American crystals. Fawcett dark crystal, for instance, or Crisp 77L. Other options include Simpsons DRC or Briess Extra Special, which add a lot of flavor and a little roast.

And keep things simple! If you use a lot of Maris (and you will, to get the gravity high enough), you'll only need one or two roast and crystal malts to round out the flavor.
 
Definitely use Maris Otter or another English pale as a base malt. This gives you a backbone of flavor that specialty malts can build on. Regular 2-row is a missed opportunity.

Roasted barley and chocolate malts are appropriate for an Imperial Stout. Consider chocolate rye, which adds a lot of flavor but not any roast astringency. For crystal, use English, which has a ton of flavor compared to standard American crystals. Fawcett dark crystal, for instance, or Crisp 77L. Other options include Simpsons DRC or Briess Extra Special, which add a lot of flavor and a little roast.

And keep things simple! If you use a lot of Maris (and you will, to get the gravity high enough), you'll only need one or two roast and crystal malts to round out the flavor.
I have Northern Brewer hops. magnum hops and chinook hops to use. Will any of these work well with British malts?
 
I like KISS imperial stouts

Maris Otter
Crystal 40
Special B or DRC
Roasted Barley
.75-.9 IBU to gravity ratio


For complexity you could mix Carafa III with the roasted barley, add chocolate rye or midnight wheat, some Crystal 80, or some Golden Naked Oats for a super rich mouthfeel
 
I'll also be brewing an Imperial Stout later this year, for enjoyment next year. Another plug for both Maris Otter and chocolate rye, both excellent choices. Another specialty malt I've not seen mentioned yet is Golden Naked Oats. I've not used it before in any of my stouts, but I am planning on using it at 4.5% of my recipe this time around.

Simpson's Golden Naked Oats
If you've never brewed with it, you've probably never brewed with anything like it. While most oats used in brewing are unmalted adjuncts, Simpsons Golden Naked Oats is actually a huskless crystal malt. This unique malt has a subtle, nutty flavor with a subdued, grainy sweetness. It imparts light golden hues to the wort while adding body and contributing to a smooth mouthfeel. It also helps produce a creamy, robust head. Although this exotic ingredient is not a traditional component of any beer styles, Simpsons Golden Naked Oats is perfect for malty or full-bodied beers - especially Nut Brown Ales and Stouts.
 
I like KISS imperial stouts

Maris Otter
Crystal 40
Special B or DRC
Roasted Barley
.75-.9 IBU to gravity ratio


For complexity you could mix Carafa III with the roasted barley, add chocolate rye or midnight wheat, some Crystal 80, or some Golden Naked Oats for a super rich mouth feel
I would like to brew some different all grain recipes of imperial stouts over the winter to give away next year or the year after and I would like to know which specialty grain combinations might give the stout a more complex lingering taste than just using one or two specialty malts. I have both pale brewer's malt or Maris Otter malt but I am open to trying a different base malt too.

I have used roasted barley, black patent malt, some crystal malt and chocolate malt to make good imperial stouts but these have usually produced a more uniform taste when sipping instead of something more complex. Perhaps using carafa ma;t, special malt, special B, aeromatic malt, victory malt, biscuit malt might be options but i don't want to make a kitchen sink type of recipe. I would like to avoid a harsh strong bitter taste though because I will be giving these away and not everyone might like it that way. Thank you.
Which yeast strains do you like using for stouts?
 
Which yeast strains are good for using in Imperial Stouts? I having been using US-05 lately
I usually use an irish or scottish ale strain, or even a british ale yeast. Anything but windsor or Nottingham. Windsor can't ferment maltotrios and Nottingham always comes across harsh in a big beer to me
 
The best Imperial Stout I've made in recent years is the Russian Imperial Stout published in Ron Pattinson's Homebrewers Guide to Vintage Beer.
15 pounds pale malt... I use either Maris Otter or Golden Promise. 6 pounds Brown malt... 2.75 pounds Amber malt... and .75 pound Black malt.
Hops are Golding, Golding, Golding at 90, 60 and 30 minutes... a whopping 7 ounces for each addition.
I've used Wyeast 1099, Wyeast 1098 and Imperial Pub A-09. I liked 1099 best.
Its a 60 minute mash at 160° with a 90 minute boil.
OG= 1.100 - FG= 1.032 - ABV= 9+%

It ages tremendously well with a rich, complex character.
 
The best Imperial Stout I've made in recent years is the Russian Imperial Stout published in Ron Pattinson's Homebrewers Guide to Vintage Beer.
15 pounds pale malt... I use either Maris Otter or Golden Promise. 6 pounds Brown malt... 2.75 pounds Amber malt... and .75 pound Black malt.
Hops are Golding, Golding, Golding at 90, 60 and 30 minutes... a whopping 7 ounces for each addition.
I've used Wyeast 1099, Wyeast 1098 and Imperial Pub A-09. I liked 1099 best.
Its a 60 minute mash at 160° with a 90 minute boil.
OG= 1.100 - FG= 1.032 - ABV= 9+%

It ages tremendously well with a rich, complex character.
Is this for a 5 or 6 gallon batch?
 
i don't want to make a kitchen sink type of recipe. I would like to avoid a harsh strong bitter taste though because I will be giving these away and not everyone might like it that way.
Bearing this in mind - though traditional brown malt is maybe not the way to go, it's a bit love/hate, whereas DRC might be a more popular option.

Is this for a 5 or 6 gallon batch?
Ron's recipes are usually for 5 US gallons, here's one of his :
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2022/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1924-barclay.html
Which yeast strains are good for using in Imperial Stouts? I having been using US-05 lately
You want something British, with a bit of character. WLP540 or BE-256 might be an idea, as strains of British origin that are adapted to higher ABVs. Rochefort dregs are better, with more complexity.
 
I have an oatmeal stout that is in fermenter right now.
It's a fairly simple bill - 2-row, chocolate malt, blackprinz and rolled oats.
Typically it's an imperial bill, though this time I used the same amounts for an extra gallon, so I don't think it quite qualifies as Imperial this time.
I'm going to be adding some coffee in to the extra and see how that goes.
 
As most folks have said already, maris otter is a great base malt. I like to use 5-10% rye malt and 15-30% medium (10L) munich as well.

When using munich, I keep my crystal malts to a 40-60L and a 90-120L. Without the munich I also like a lighter crystal.
 
Bearing this in mind - though traditional brown malt is maybe not the way to go, it's a bit love/hate, whereas DRC might be a more popular option.


Ron's recipes are usually for 5 US gallons, here's one of his :
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2022/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1924-barclay.html
You want something British, with a bit of character. WLP540 or BE-256 might be an idea, as strains of British origin that are adapted to higher ABVs. Rochefort dregs are better, with more complexity.
I'm resurrecting this as I'm working on a RIS among others. I just looked up Ron's recipe - thanks. However, I'm blown away by the bitterness balance as written. According to my calculations, discounting hop utility losses, I'm getting a nominal OG of 1.149 and IBU of 334. That's a BU:GU of 2.25:1 (!).

Even though he's got a truly extensive aging complete with brett in the secondary, in particular with the roast (incl. black) malt emphasis, I am having a really tough time imagining the bitterness mellows to palatable levels. Anyone have thoughts on this?
 
I usually use an irish or scottish ale strain, or even a british ale yeast. Anything but windsor or Nottingham. Windsor can't ferment maltotrios and Nottingham always comes across harsh in a big beer to me
I love Nottingham. I’ve also gotten harshness from it in barleywine, but it’s much better at ~60 F.
 
I'm resurrecting this as I'm working on a RIS among others. I just looked up Ron's recipe - thanks. However, I'm blown away by the bitterness balance as written. According to my calculations, discounting hop utility losses, I'm getting a nominal OG of 1.149 and IBU of 334. That's a BU:GU of 2.25:1 (!).

Even though he's got a truly extensive aging complete with brett in the secondary, in particular with the roast (incl. black) malt emphasis, I am having a really tough time imagining the bitterness mellows to palatable levels. Anyone have thoughts on this?
I have made that Pattinson RIS a couple of times. It is a truly magnificent beer! Well worth the effort and time.

Another of his RIS recipes is the 1848 Barclay Perkins IBSt (the brewery's abbreviation for Imperial Brown Stout) This is the original Russian Imperial Stout. You won't find the recipe on his website, it was included in the book The Homebrewer's Guide to Vintage Beer. A stellar beer and a book that I return to time and time again. Well worth tracking down a copy.
 
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I have made that Pattinson RIS a couple of times. It is a truly magnificent beer! Well worth the effort and time.
Thanks Kevin - based on the figures I'm coming up with, I was just wondering if somehow I've screwed up calculations, or such a massive amount of IBUs can mellow that strikingly over time. Do you have your stats? Were your IBUs also in that range, and, if so, how long did you age yours?

Thanks again.

Edit: Just looked at his recipe again and I see he lists 132 IBUs, so no idea how I came up with 300+, unless I've got the alpha acid % wrong. 132 is right where I'd expect the BU:GU to be, if not slightly higher.
 
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Not sure how you are getting an IBU of 334 (I overlooked that the first time I read your post). When I enter Ron's recipes I often get numbers that don't match those published. I attribute that to different system efficiencies. I often tweak my recipe design so that my numbers match what he has stated. I don't have extensive notes from those brew sessions to say for sure what I ended up with. Sorry.
 
Not sure how you are getting an IBU of 334 (I overlooked that the first time I read your post). When I enter Ron's recipes I often get numbers that don't match those published. I attribute that to different system efficiencies. I often tweak my recipe design so that my numbers match what he has stated. I don't have extensive notes from those brew sessions to say for sure what I ended up with. Sorry.
No worries, man, and as edited, I just screwed up on amounts. Even so, I'm still getting quite a high balance. Do you mean you pull down your hop bill to get closer to his stated IBU?
 
In beer, once your IBU gets much over 100 you reach saturation of iso alpha acids and any further hops won't actually add to perceived bitterness.

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/VDyprkuB8N/
Yeah, like I mentioned I haven't taken account of efficiency losses at such a high rate, just figured it wouldn't be that dramatic. I'll do some digging. Thanks.

Just read your cite, thanks again. As I read it, he's saying the saturation point is 100 - meaning, literally, no further extraction can take place much past 100. Is it possibly rather that the sensory threshold is tapped about there, and as you say, perceived bitterness won't be there?
 
I have made that Pattinson RIS a couple of times. It is a truly magnificent beer! Well worth the effort and time.

Another of his RIS recipes is the 1848 Barclay Perkins IBSt (the brewery's abbreviation for Imperial Brown Stout) This is the original Russian Imperial Stout. You won't find the recipe on his website, it was included in the book The Homebrewer's Guide to Vintage Beer. A stellar beer and a book that I return to time and time again. Well worth tracking down a copy.
Got the book, shipped out today!
 
No worries, man, and as edited, I just screwed up on amounts. Even so, I'm still getting quite a high balance. Do you mean you pull down your hop bill to get closer to his stated IBU?
I adjust the grain bill to get the published OG and ABV while keeping the same grain percentages. I use Beersmith which makes that task pretty easy. I also adjust the hops to match (or get close to) Ron's published IBU's. The beer is aged for such a long time that the hop bitterness will fade some. That, plus the high ABV means it balances out very nicely.
 
I adjust the grain bill to get the published OG and ABV while keeping the same grain percentages. I use Beersmith which makes that task pretty easy. I also adjust the hops to match (or get close to) Ron's published IBU's. The beer is aged for such a long time that the hop bitterness will fade some. That, plus the high ABV means it balances out very nicely.
Great, thanks Kevin. Can't wait for his book to arrive.
 
@Gadjobrinus - Ron Pattinson just posted this today. He talks about the brewing records and how he translates them into the recipes he publishes. I've been aware of his methods but this lays them out pretty clearly. Despite the fact that we have no clue what efficiency he is using (Ron uses Beersmith and I've been pestering him for a long time to include a .bsmx file that we can just download with no success) but there is a good amount of educated guesswork on his part in deciphering those brewing records.

Here is a snippet of the linked article:
"How do I cope with missing information? I’ll be honest: I guess. Not just random guesses, but ones based on other sources, such as brewing manuals. Or later brewing records from the same brewery. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best that can be done.

Virtually no logs have any record of the hop additions. With the exception of some Barclay Perkins logs. All the other hop additions listed in these recipes are a guesstimate. Feel free to tinker with them as it suits you
."


http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2023/12/notes-on-my-historic-recipes.html
 
Hi Kevin, just a note that I've got the book and am enjoying it tremendously. That said, confirmation - you've got 21.5 ounces EKG in your boil?
 
The best Imperial Stout I've made in recent years is the Russian Imperial Stout published in Ron Pattinson's Homebrewers Guide to Vintage Beer.
15 pounds pale malt... I use either Maris Otter or Golden Promise. 6 pounds Brown malt... 2.75 pounds Amber malt... and .75 pound Black malt.
Hops are Golding, Golding, Golding at 90, 60 and 30 minutes... a whopping 7 ounces for each addition.
I've used Wyeast 1099, Wyeast 1098 and Imperial Pub A-09. I liked 1099 best.
Its a 60 minute mash at 160° with a 90 minute boil.
OG= 1.100 - FG= 1.032 - ABV= 9+%

It ages tremendously well with a rich, complex character.
Just discussing the mash regimen in another thread when I came across this again, Kevin. It does seem the 160F is what he meant, per that other discussion, but I'm still left wondering why so high? That means beta is denatured almost immediately. I was guessing he might have meant these first 4 for the strike temp and not mash-in, but then that wouldn't be consistent for his blog explanation on his mashing indications in the book....so, yes, I read the recipes as in the 160's as well until you get to the Guinness extra and so forth.

Secondly, I'd originally thought to sub in a Scottish ale or even a saison, something at home in higher gravities. Truth be told, I'm also in love with 1469 and thought to give it a whirl. But both 1098 and 1099 are indicated, and I read @Northern_Brewer even recommended blending both. Going to give that blend a shot. Thoughts?
 
Hi Kevin, just a note that I've got the book and am enjoying it tremendously. That said, confirmation - you've got 21.5 ounces EKG in your boil?
I had to adjust my hop schedule to get it to match the published IBU number. I used a total of 16oz ...7.5 ounces at 90 minutes... 4.5 ounces at 60 minutes... and 4 ounces at 30 minutes.

Just discussing the mash regimen in another thread when I came across this again, Kevin. It does seem the 160F is what he meant, per that other discussion, but I'm still left wondering why so high?
Looking back at my session notes it seems I must have thought the same thing. My mash is recorded as being 158°F.
 
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