Looking for input on Fermenter Upgrade

[csample]

I am considering an upgrade from a Fermonster plastic fermenter to a stainless steel fermenter with a conical bottom, and wanted opinions from more experienced brewers regarding the pros/cons of the specific system I am considering. Here is some back ground information and my goals in brewing:

I am the only beer drinker in the house, and drink only one bottle per day. I like to rotate through a variety of beers and don't want to drink the same one multiple days in a row. To me this suggests that I will not want to keg my beer, but will bottle it and that I will mostly focus on 2.5 gallon batches with an occasional 5 gallon batch of a favorite. To make bottling faster and reduce the chance of priming error, I would like to carbonate (forced or natural carbonation) in my new fermenter and bottle directly from the fermenter. This has me looking at either the Spike Brewing Flex+ or Spike Brewing 5 gallon conical fermenter. I am leaning towards the full conical fermenter because it allows me to drop the trub and yeast before bottling and opens the door to yeast harvesting. Does this make sense? Will using the 5 gallon conical fermenter be difficult with smaller 2.5 gallon batches? What are some negatives with this setup that I should consider? Other recommended options?

Thanks

 

[McKnuckle]

You can buy 2.5 gallon or even 1 gallon (!) kegs. There is no need to bottle just because of a smaller batch size. With a small batch, the Anvil 4 gallon fermenter, while not a conical, is super easy to use. It seals perfectly. You can purge a keg with fermentation CO2 using an airlock and 1/2" tubing. The spigot has a rotating dip tube that perfectly drains it, leaving a nice clean yeast cake. And it actually fits in things, like a fridge, for temp control.

You can then keg your beer and either naturally carbonate it with easily measured priming sugar in the keg, or force carb it. And before you complain that 2.5 gallon kegs are almost the same price as 5 gallon kegs, consider the cost and handling challenges of the fermenters you're looking at.

There's no need to drop the yeast in advance when dealing with these small quantities. And just keep the trub out of the fermenter in the first place, and the yeast will not even need to be washed or manipulated.

 

[apache_brew]

It sounds like you've covered most the bases. Unless you're dead set on dropping yeast, fining, and having instantaneous brite beer, I'd lean towards the flex+ for simplicity. You could always pickup a corny keg to use a "brite" tank or bottling tank.

 

[csample]

Thanks for the input and for helping me to spend money wisely - I am mostly thinking that I will want to bottle because I am not sure that I want to keep 4 kegs of different brews on hand and ready to use, and I don't know how long a keg will keep. At my rate of consumption rotating through 4 different 2.5 gallon batches it would take ~3.5 months to finish a 2.5 gallon keg. At this rate with minimal exposure to oxygen by bottling directly from the fermenter I am expecting ~ 6 month shelf life for a bottled beer kept in a cool location (55-60 degree basement).

As you point out the handling and cleaning of the full on conical are more difficult and are one of my biggest concerns. I don't think I would choose the full conical if I were confident that I could get a clean beer out of the fermenter without dumping the trub and yeast. Considering dry hopping (which I have not done yet) do you think the ability to remove the trub would result in a cleaner beer bottled directly from the fermenter?

 

[McKnuckle]

If you keep O2 out of your keg (or bottles, of course), they will last a long time. I am exactly in your shoes. I am the only drinker, and before COVID I could claim to be drinking 1 or maybe a wee bit more per day. Now I'm stressed and stir crazy and definitely at 2, but the point remains - beer goes slowly in my house. And yet I love the variety. I have at least 6 batches in different stages. It also provides me with something to do to occupy my mind, and I enjoy the management aspect.

I have had a lot of trial and error, and just experimenting because I like to, with fermenting in different things. I really like the stainless buckets for the reasons I cited above. But I also routinely ferment in corny kegs. You want a little less beer? Make 2 gallon batches, or 1.5 gallon batches - and ferment them in a 2.5 gallon keg. Route the CO2 from the fermenter keg into a second serving keg, purging it during fermentation. Then rack into the serving keg with quick disconnects and jumpers, all without any O2 exposure. Force carb, or - with a little preparation - it's easy to naturally prime.

Get some floating dip tubes and you can even... gasp... ferment and serve in the same keg. Yes, it works even though it's not talked about a lot.

I get clear wort into the fermenter by chilling part way down so as to waste less water, then racking gently without aeration into a settling vessel. I chill that for a couple/few hours until it's at pitching temp. Then I siphon off the settled trub into the fermenter. Absolutely clean wort this way. After fermentation and racking, what's left is nearly pure yeast. Just swirl, pour, and save.

 

[apache_brew]

Since @McKnuckle mentioned kegs, I'll piggy back. I ferment in 1/2 bbl sankeys (see the link in my sig) and take advantage of a floating diptube to rack cold crashed clear beer into another purged keg to use as a brite tank with the addition of biofine in the transfer. From there, crystal clear beer gets transferred into serving kegs. There's no reason you can't do the same with smaller 5 kegs (corny or sankey), or even smaller 3 or 2.5 gallon cornies. It's easy to do oxygen free pressure transfers with kegs and the right parts. Pick up a beer gun and go wild filling all the bottles you want.

Also, the nice thing about investing in kegs is that they'll never go out of style and always hold value (monetarily as well as brewing capacity wise). Maybe you'll change your mind one day and want to brew 10 gallon batches and need a bigger ferm vessel. The smaller ferm vessel is kinda niche, but the serving vessel can always be utilized.

 

[csample]

I have had a lot of trial and error, and just experimenting because I like to, with fermenting in different things. I really like the stainless buckets for the reasons I cited above. But I also routinely ferment in corny kegs. You want a little less beer? Make 2 gallon batches, or 1.5 gallon batches - and ferment them in a 2.5 gallon keg. Route the CO2 from the fermenter keg into a second serving keg, purging it during fermentation. Then rack into the serving keg with quick disconnects and jumpers, all without any O2 exposure. Force carb, or - with a little preparation - it's easy to naturally prime.

Get some floating dip tubes and you can even... gasp... ferment and serve in the same keg. Yes, it works even though it's not talked about a lot.

I get clear wort into the fermenter by chilling part way down so as to waste less water, then racking gently without aeration into a settling vessel. I chill that for a couple/few hours until it's at pitching temp. Then I siphon off the settled trub into the fermenter. Absolutely clean wort this way. After fermentation and racking, what's left is nearly pure yeast. Just swirl, pour, and save.

Thanks again for letting me benefit from your experience. It sounds like the Flex+ (pressure capable bucket fermenter) covers my needs and is easier to clean, move and cool and costs less too. Do you know if you can get clean beer out of a stainless steel bucket fermenter when dry hopping?

 

[NobleSavage]

Dumping the yeast/trub during fermentation will not make much of a difference with beer clarity if you are not cold crashing and waiting a while or cold crashing and using gelatin.

What works for one brewer might not work for the next, but after 20 years of brewing I've settled on 2.5 gallon batches, fermented in PET carboys using a chest freezer fermentation chamber. Once fermentation is done I cold crash (using either the cold crash guardian from brewhardware or even just a mylar balloon filled with CO2 attached to a broken airlock) and add gelatin. After a few days I pressure transfer to 2.5 gallon kegs - most beers are crystal clear by the time they are carbonated properly. The Flex+ is $375 and the conical is $550 that could get you an inexpensive chest freezer, an ink bird controller, and everything you need for a 2 or 3 keg set up (that just leaves a spare fridge/keezer/kegerator to serve out of). If you are worried about kegs sitting around for a while, you could get a counter pressure bottle filler or beer gun and just bottle off the keg.

If you are set on carbonating in the fermenter take a look at the FermZilla line of fermenters from Keg Land as a cheaper alternative to the Spike fermenters.

 

[McKnuckle]

Do you know if you can get clean beer out of a stainless steel bucket fermenter when dry hopping?

Definitely. Utilize a stainless hop canister or bag in the fermenter. Or take the scenario I described where you purge the serving keg during fermentation, and put the hop canister in the serving keg at the beginning, before any beer is present. Rack on top of it and leave it there for the duration. It works very well because again, no oxygen is introduced.

 

[csample]

Great that settles it for me - I will get the Flex+ and not worry that I am locking myself out of future functionality offered by the full conical. I can try counterpressure bottling directly from it and can also try a small keg to see how that works out for me.

Thanks for all the other suggestions, and sharing what has worked for you. I like the design and build of the Spike units and just kind of want one (although other options may be a better value). Every time I use the beautiful Snap-On ratchets I bought 20 years ago I am thankful to have them, Craftsman would have been functionally fine and a better value, but I just liked the shiny Snap-On's better and I still do. If I have have a similar experience with the Spike Fermenter, it will be well worth the extra cost.

 

[McKnuckle]

Good to be honest with yourself. Nothing wrong with appreciating the bling and extra features of these products. The Flex+ seems exceptionally, er, flexible which is clearly the point!

 

[Brews and Blues]

Do people have any experiences with the FermZilla? I have been eyeballing that for some time now. I like the idea of not only being able to see the beer, but how easy dumping trub/yeast removal is. I don't think I am ready to add that kind of adjustment to my brew day yet... but I get online at look at it about once per week LOL. Plus it would just look bad ass next to my kegerator

 

[NewJersey]

With the CF5 you could even just carb and serve out of it if you really wanted to, lol
So many options these days!

 

[csample]

While I wait for the Flex+ to come back in stock I was looking at the pressures required for forced carbonation and it looks like the 15psi pressure limit for the Flex+ may not be high enough to be useful unless the beer is quite cold. For example if I wanted 2.5 volumes I would have to chill the beer to 45 deg. F. And as far as spunding during fermentation it would look like the 15 psi limit would not allow much of any carbonation at ale fermentation temperatures. Am I reading this chart right?

 

[apache_brew]

Am I reading this chart right?

Yep

 

[csample]

So the 15psi limit on the Flex+ makes it of little to no use for carbonating in the fermenter. The advice to use a simpler fermenter and then keg is sounding better and better.
Thanks again

 

[TaylorBrewed]

@csacorrect I have a CF5 and you need to have the means to cold crash to get adequate carbonation. Another thing you have to keep in mine with these fancy conicals is there is a lot more to clean.

 

[madscientist451]

Get a used corny keg, get a floating dip tube and ferment and bottle right off of that.

 

[apache_brew]

Get a used corny keg, get a floating dip tube and ferment and bottle right off of that.

Or two, and use one a brite/serving tank. Easy.

Want to ferment full 5 gallon batches? Find a 1/4 slim or 1/2 bbl sankey.