Looking for information on how historical English Porters were aged.

[atzemis13]

Recently I was researching Rodenbach and found some interesting information on English Porters. Quoted below:

Wondering how this type of kiln was found in Roeselare brought Rodenbach back to a member of the family: Eugene Rodenbach. Eugene learned the job of brewer around 1860 in northern England. Returning to Rodenbach he copied two things he had seen: the kiln construction, but still more important is the way of making beer. During the time he was in England, a pub could buy fresh beer in a brewery. But there were traders who kept the beer for some years stored, and sold it for the double of the price. Visitors to a pub could drink the young or the old ale, or ask the bartender to blend both in a certain amount. The consumer paid respectively 2, 4 or 3 pence. (Wheeler G, 1993)

Brewers never have been so stupid and saw that there was a lot more to gain when they stored their ales themselves, or even better, blend it their selves. These should be the real roots of Porter beer in England. And this was what Eugene Rodenbach saw happening when he looked around in these English breweries.

So it isn't alone the kiln, who is the only remainder of his type. Maybe much more important than that is that Rodenbach should be the remainder of the roots of the English Porter ! Worthwhile mentioning here is the Green King brewery in Bury-St-Edmonds, England. This brewery still uses these large upstanding oaken barrels for blending beer. Green King has still two barrels, covered with marl, where a strong alcoholic ale age, without acid formation. The classic Rodenbach is really the beer of this blending Porter process More about that blending later on, in the third fermentation or= aging.

(Source: Brewery Rodenbach: Brewing Sour Ales)

Since then, I've really been wondering what it is that would have been special about the old ale. Presumably with age would come additional fermentation from Brett, perhaps some oak characteristics from extended aging in the barrel, and mellowing of hop aromas and bitterness. But I haven't found anything definitive on the subject, and would love to see if there are historical sources (rather than mostly speculative ones) out there with real information. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a copy of the cited source either (WHEELER Graham, March 1993, "Dark mystery of Porter", What's Brewing, newspaper of CAMRA, England).

Hoping that some people here might have an interest in this as well and perhaps be able to point me towards other resources.

Cheers!

 

[Brewsmith]

You might want to get the book Porter from Brewers Publications. There is a ton of info on the history of porter and brewing practices. I can dig up my old copy but I can say that historical porter was a blend of beers, often mixed by the publican at the tap. The blend included aged “stale” beer, that probably had some brett character, and a “new” beer, unaged. Aging vessels were lined with brewers pitch, so oak character was probably minimal. Modern porter tried to recreate this blend into a single beer without the age and blending.

Rodenbach took these English practices, both, malting and brewing, back to Belgium, including the blending of aged and young beer into a single beer.

 

[atzemis13]

Thanks for the suggestion. Good to know about the brewers pitch, that’s the sort of thing I was looking for.

 

[patto1ro]

You might want to get the book Porter from Brewers Publications. There is a ton of info on the history of porter and brewing practices. I can dig up my old copy but I can say that historical porter was a blend of beers, often mixed by the publican at the tap. The blend included aged “stale” beer, that probably had some brett character, and a “new” beer, unaged. Aging vessels were lined with brewers pitch, so oak character was probably minimal. Modern porter tried to recreate this blend into a single beer without the age and blending.

Rodenbach took these English practices, both, malting and brewing, back to Belgium, including the blending of aged and young beer into a single beer.

I wouldn't recommend the Brewers Publications Porter. It's very out of date.

At least after 1800, Porter was blended in the brewery, not in the pub. Because they didn't trust publicans. The vats used to age Porter were unlined. But, wouldn't have imparted any oak flavour as English brewers specifically chose types of oak which wouldn't do that. Very little wood was in contact with the Porter, in any case. As they used giant vats holding sometimes tens of thousands of barrels. London brewers were producing blended Porter up until the 1870s, when they stopped making aged Porter.

The blend was usually one-third aged, two thirds fresh. It definitely seems to be a good ratio. That's what we used at Goose Island for Obadiah Poundage, a recreation of a 19th=century blended Porter. And the blend was better than either of the beers individually. It made me realise just how impostant blending can be. That it can produce combinations of flavours you couldn't get in a single beer.

 

[eshea3]

I wouldn't recommend the Brewers Publications Porter. It's very out of date.

At least after 1800, Porter was blended in the brewery, not in the pub. Because they didn't trust publicans. The vats used to age Porter were unlined. But, wouldn't have imparted any oak flavour as English brewers specifically chose types of oak which wouldn't do that. Very little wood was in contact with the Porter, in any case. As they used giant vats holding sometimes tens of thousands of barrels. London brewers were producing blended Porter up until the 1870s, when they stopped making aged Porter.

The blend was usually one-third aged, two thirds fresh. It definitely seems to be a good ratio. That's what we used at Goose Island for Obadiah Poundage, a recreation of a 19th=century blended Porter. And the blend was better than either of the beers individually. It made me realise just how impostant blending can be. That it can produce combinations of flavours you couldn't get in a single beer.

I was going to suggest you take look at the numerous writings of Ron Pattinson, but it appears you have the executive summary from the source himself.

 

[patto1ro]

Recently I was researching Rodenbach and found some interesting information on English Porters. Quoted below:


(Source: Brewery Rodenbach: Brewing Sour Ales)

Since then, I've really been wondering what it is that would have been special about the old ale. Presumably with age would come additional fermentation from Brett, perhaps some oak characteristics from extended aging in the barrel, and mellowing of hop aromas and bitterness. But I haven't found anything definitive on the subject, and would love to see if there are historical sources (rather than mostly speculative ones) out there with real information. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a copy of the cited source either (WHEELER Graham, March 1993, "Dark mystery of Porter", What's Brewing, newspaper of CAMRA, England).

Hoping that some people here might have an interest in this as well and perhaps be able to point me towards other resources.

Cheers!

Earlty 18th century Porter was all aged in vats for a fairly short time, about 6 months, Later in the century, they started ageing some for a longer period, 12 months or more, and blending that with fresh Porter at the brewery. 2 parts young, 1 part old. Of course, the vatted Porter underwent a Brettanomyces secondary fermentation which produced the aged flavour loved by some drinkers.

I've written loads about the history of Porter on my blog. All taken from original sources.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/Porter

 

[patto1ro]

Thanks for the suggestion. Good to know about the brewers pitch, that’s the sort of thing I was looking for.

Porter vats weren't pitched.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Recently I was researching Rodenbach and found some interesting information on English Porters. Quoted below:


(Source: Brewery Rodenbach: Brewing Sour Ales)

Since then, I've really been wondering what it is that would have been special about the old ale. Presumably with age would come additional fermentation from Brett, perhaps some oak characteristics from extended aging in the barrel, and mellowing of hop aromas and bitterness. But I haven't found anything definitive on the subject, and would love to see if there are historical sources (rather than mostly speculative ones) out there with real information. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a copy of the cited source either (WHEELER Graham, March 1993, "Dark mystery of Porter", What's Brewing, newspaper of CAMRA, England).

Hoping that some people here might have an interest in this as well and perhaps be able to point me towards other resources.

Cheers!

This page from beer historian Ron Pattinson's blog has some info:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/05/runners-and-keepers.html?m=1
I suggest Googling "aged porter site:barclayperkins.blogspot.com". There will be many hits for you to explore.

 

[atzemis13]

Earlty 18th century Porter was all aged in vats for a fairly short time, about 6 months, Later in the century, they started ageing some for a longer period, 12 months or more, and blending that with fresh Porter at the brewery. 2 parts young, 1 part old. Of course, the vatted Porter underwent a Brettanomyces secondary fermentation which produced the aged flavour loved by some drinkers.

I've written loads about the history of Porter on my blog. All taken from original sources.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/Porter

Wow, fantastic! Thank you Ron, I plan to devour your blog.

In your impression, was Brettanomyces the main effect of aging?

 

[patto1ro]

Wow, fantastic! Thank you Ron, I plan to devour your blog.

In your impression, was Brettanomyces the main effect of aging?

Yes.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Found this on Amazon

Brewing Porters and Stouts: Origins, History, and 60 Recipes for Brewing Them at Home Today​

by Terry Foster