Looking for advice on removing ceiling fan

[sibelman]

The wall switch to nowhere is annoying - is it a possible hazard?

The mystery wire could perhaps be traced with a toner/tracer. Though intended for low-voltage cable work, this ($40 @ HomeBox) or similar could perhaps be adapted to do the job. There could be tools better suited to the task.

I'm not seeing a hazard.

 

[Agent]

There doesn't happen to be a red wire tucked up inside the ceiling light box by chance?

Three wire (with the red wire on the switch) is usually used for either two controllable hots for independent light/fan power or as part of a three-way switch circuit (which this doesn't appear to be).

 

[Broken Crow]

For what it's worth; My dining room has a 2-gang box and when I bought the house it had one switch for the fan and the second switch for the light in the fan... I hated the fan and replaced it with a Hampton Bay unit that used a single switch for the whole shebang and had a remote to control the light and dimmer, fan speed and on/off. I still have the second light switch that goes to wires in the ceiling that now terminate with taped down marr connectors. I just haven't bothered to get rid of the redundant switch in case I ever swap it out for a different model that might need it.

 

[Garage Brewer]

Modern problems call for modern solutions.
VrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmVRRRMMM!!

 

[mac_1103]

There doesn't happen to be a red wire tucked up inside the ceiling light box by chance?

Yeah, I think OP definitely needs to pull the rest of the fan wiring and get inside the ceiling box.

Three wire (with the red wire on the switch) is usually used for either two controllable hots for independent light/fan power or as part of a three-way switch circuit (which this doesn't appear to be).

Is there a blank switch plate on the other side of the room by any chance? Maybe it used to be a three-way switch circuit before it was a ceiling fan?

 

[Agent]

View attachment 851124
Modern problems call for modern solutions.
VrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmVRRRMMM!!

That's the same tool I used to help level the studs at my last house! Glad to see I could use it for electrical work as well.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Yeah, I think OP definitely needs to pull the rest of the fan wiring and get inside the ceiling box.

Is there a blank switch plate on the other side of the room by any chance? Maybe it used to be a three-way switch circuit before it was a ceiling fan?

No red wire in the ceiling There is a blank plate but it is covering an old telephone connection.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

There doesn't happen to be a red wire tucked up inside the ceiling light box by chance?

Three wire (with the red wire on the switch) is usually used for either two controllable hots for independent light/fan power or as part of a three-way switch circuit (which this doesn't appear to be).

No red line.

 

[mac_1103]

So what do you have in the ceiling? You said the switch is live, but if it really is a switch to nowhere that seems like a bad idea. That red wire has to go somewhere, and without knowing where I wouldn't want to energize it.

 

[mac_1103]

That bedroom has 2 wall switches to control a fan and its lights. Here's the ironic part: the bedroom has the same fan/light fixture as my office

So the ceiling fan in the bedroom doesn't have a remote? Maybe some clues in the way those switches are wired?

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

So the ceiling fan in the bedroom doesn't have a remote? Maybe some clues in the way those switches are wired?

Wellllllll, that's the room directly above so I was checking that based on Deadalus' suggestion - I'll need to open the switch cover and have a look. The bedroom next to it (but not directly overhead) has the same cockamamie in-wall remote control set up as my office.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

So what do you have in the ceiling? You said the switch is live, but if it really is a switch to nowhere that seems like a bad idea. That red wire has to go somewhere, and without knowing where I wouldn't want to energize it.

Yeah, it's a mystery - I have to make a decision about it eventually, which probably involves paying a pro to check it. I don't think it is worth getting something routed to the ceiling from the switch as I can buy a "smart" fan.

 

[mac_1103]

I have to make a decision about it eventually, which probably involves paying a pro to check it.

If it really doesn't do anything except energize a wire that is capped off somewhere else, then you should be able to just remove it and cap that red wire and... nothing will happen.

 

[Deadalus]

There doesn't happen to be a red wire tucked up inside the ceiling light box by chance?

Three wire (with the red wire on the switch) is usually used for either two controllable hots for independent light/fan power or as part of a three-way switch circuit (which this doesn't appear to be).

Yeah. It's probably 14/3 wire, can't see the insulation. Minor clue is that it enters the box from the bottom. The junction box looks like old work with tabs that turn with 2 screws. Any wire from the ceiling box would most likely run across the ceiling and then down the wall bay to the junction box. They might have just used the bottom clamp to be on the same side as the other wire coming in. You could probably get the junction box to come out some and see which direction the wires go. It's a small clue though, they could just duck right through a stud.

If the red wire is tucked in the ceiling box you would have the correct wires for a fan and light. No need for that radio switch to begin with, somewhat confusing why they had it. An issue you are going to have is that you have a double gang box. The newer fans that have the remotes are great for when you have pull chains and only one switch (or none if I am reading @day_trippr correctly). If neither wire in the wall goes to the ceiling you will have a blank switchplate over that box. You have to leave it accessible, you can't wall over it since there are live wires inside.

 

[Deadalus]

If you didn't need to use the wall junction box, you could trace incoming power back to the next junction box and disconnect it there. It could be coming in on either line. Then you could remove the junction box as it wouldn't be live and fix the hole in the wall. That might create a code issue later as far as lighting for a room however. I know a switched outlet for a lamp qualifies, overhead with a switch, probably a pull chain, but not sure about a remote by itself.

 

[PCABrewing]

So the ceiling fan in the bedroom doesn't have a remote? Maybe some clues in the way those switches are wired?

That looks like (similar) to the unit that I had.
The part in the wall with the buttons was actually a receiver.
You could set the speed at the wall plate or via an obviously missing remote that transmitted to the wall unit.

 

[mac_1103]

The part in the wall with the buttons was actually a receiver.

Wouldn't the part in the wall be the transmitter? The receiver is the plastic thing in the fan housing in the other photo in #23. My WAG is that this fan was originally wired with two switches like the one in the room above and someone added the remote kit later. But why they wouldn't just eliminate both switches when they did that is a mystery.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Just for completeness, below is a snapshot of the switch wiring. I just went upstairs to check the bedroom that is above my office. That bedroom has 2 wall switches to control a fan and its lights. Here's the ironic part: the bedroom has the same fan/light fixture as my office, and, for some reason, the freaking ring is not secured in place, so I could have figured out how to loosen the one in my office

For the office, I guess the easiest solution is a "smart" fan that controls both fan and lights via a remote or voice assistant. The wall switch to nowhere is annoying - is it a possible hazard?
View attachment 851108

Get yerself one of these do-dads. It has been a lifesaver for me. It's great for tracing electrical wire, data cables, testing data cables. I had an outlet above my fireplace that was dead. Traced the line back to an outlet that wasn't hooked up for whatever reason... Stupid, former home owners and the ones before them, and the ones before them.

 

[Deadalus]

Wellllllll, that's the room directly above so I was checking that based on Deadalus' suggestion - I'll need to open the switch cover and have a look. The bedroom next to it (but not directly overhead) has the same cockamamie in-wall remote control set up as my office.

So what I was thinking is that maybe someone branched off an outlet for power upstairs and routed a line to the ceiling downstairs.

However, I'm not convinced your three wire (red, black, white) from the wall switch does not run to the ceiling. You don't use three wire except as needed, which is either to a ceiling fan or a three way switch as mentioned. For the line in the ceiling, were you able to get a look to a point where the outer insulation of the complete wire was visible? I'm thinking maybe they clipped the residual red wire off back to the entrance to the box or even further. If you can expose that wire back to the outer insulation, you might see that it is 14/3. @mac_1103 suggested a closed off three way switch but simplest answer is that three wire was for the ceiling. Also there is a single pole light switch on that wire, not a three way switch. The black and the white wire from the three wire are connected to what I think is the line power. With the power on, you could check the black and white wires in the ceiling for power. Then turn the power off, and I am assuming you have the correct breaker for both the ceiling and wall, disconnnect the black and white in the three wire, then you could tape all the wall wires with electrical tape, turn on the power and see if the ceiling wires have power. If they don't you just disconnected them and you know where that three wire goesl The switch couldn't have affected the ceiling fan because it's pigtailed into the power (so live) but the switch was turning off the red wire, not the black one.

That radio switch is Hampton Bay as well, it did not come separate. It was likely part of the ceiling fan you took out. I image searched your switch and found other references to it but nothing revealing. Other people were stumped too!

 

[mac_1103]

suggested a closed off three way switch but simplest answer is that three wire was for the ceiling.

Yeah, but I changed my mind later and guessed that it was originally separate switches for the light and the fan.

there is a single pole light switch on that wire, not a three way switch

Good catch. OP says the switch doesn't do anything, but I suppose it's possible that he just hasn't figured out what it does yet.

 

[Deadalus]

Yeah, but I changed my mind later and guessed that it was originally separate switches for the light and the fan.

Good catch. OP says the switch doesn't do anything, but I suppose it's possible that he just hasn't figured out what it does yet.

I just wanted to give you credit for it, it was plausible.

It's a simple switch, it might have worked the light part of the before this current one. The lights are just on or off. I put dimmers on mine but as far as the pull chains, the fan is what has multiple settings, the light pull chain is just on or off typically. If the red wire is further back though cut off, there may not be enought slack left to use it if it doesn't reach into the junction box. They might have cut it and taped it just to get it out of the way or spiraled it around the other wires but further back. I think it's up there!

 

[mac_1103]

If the red wire is further back though cut off, there may not be enought slack left to use it if it doesn't reach into the junction box. They might have cut it and taped it just to get it out of the way or spiraled it around the other wires but further back. I think it's up there!

I think you're probably right. So why the hell did they leave the switch in the box? And connected to a hot to boot.

 

[Agent]

However, I'm not convinced your three wire (red, black, white) from the wall switch does not run to the ceiling. You don't use three wire except as needed, which is either to a ceiling fan or a three way switch as mentioned.

TBF, I'm pretty sure I've laid a run or two of unnecessary three wire because Menards doesn't sell Romex in 6 packs and efficiency doesn't matter when you've already saved $6k+ in electrician labor.

And I snipped the red lines to minimize the confusion. But it's amazing what can be made to work in a pinch.

 

[whoaru99]

Wire snippers should have their snippers snipped off.

I'd suggest instead leave a normal length in the box but label it unused/for future use if it's a concern.

 

[whoaru99]

BTW/FWIW, since three conductor cable and switches came up, for new work/new circuits, many switch locations now and have for a while required a neutral wire. Thus, need 3 wire w/ground cable even if it's just a simple hot side switch loop.

Old/existing installs are grandfathered to allow the grounding wire to carry a tiny amount of current for electronic/smart type switches that need a neutral connection.

The newer Code rule requiring three wires is to get that current off the grounding wire and onto the grounded wire (aka neutral) where it belongs.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

I think you're probably right. So why the hell did they leave the switch in the box? And connected to a hot to boot.

I taped a stick to an old smart phone, pushed the phone though the hole in the ceiling, and took some video. There are only white romex cables up there.

 

[mac_1103]

There are only white romex cables up there.

Still could be 14/3.

 

[whoaru99]

And, AFAIK, the color coded jacketing to identify "Romex" types didn't come into play until the early 2000s timeframe.

 

[PCABrewing]

Wouldn't the part in the wall be the transmitter? The receiver is the plastic thing in the fan housing in the other photo in #23. My WAG is that this fan was originally wired with two switches like the one in the room above and someone added the remote kit later. But why they wouldn't just eliminate both switches when they did that is a mystery.

That could be, it;s been 18 years since I replaced it. In my case there would be two transmitters, the one in the wall and the one on the nightstand.

 

[Deadalus]

I think you're probably right. So why the hell did they leave the switch in the box? And connected to a hot to boot.

Homeowner/handyman/brother-in-law did a replacement ceiling fan for the original setup. The second two people might not have expected the radio feature. Note the ceiling receiver had a set of unused, labelled wires, which in my guesswork, should have been used. Original ceiling fan likely had two switches, with one left so there wasn't a blank or in case of future replacement. Shouldn't have left it live!