Long lines problems

[StephanHaus]

Hi all, I've made a couple of beer batches so far (so still a noob), and all of them have been kegged. However, I had a bad foaming problem so I decided to change my 5' lines out for 10' lines. I currently have some of Biermuncher's delicious Centennial Blonde recipe that I'm trying to force carb, but it's been about 5 days now, with no noticeable increase in bubbles or anything.

There is no head present when it pours, but I hear the tank hissing as it fills the keg after I release some CO2 vía the safety valve. I am using 12 psi @ 40F, but I was wondering if my new lines were maybe too long for my system? Or maybe I should compensate for them? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[day_trippr]

If your 10 footers are 3/16" inside diameter non-barrier lines, you're in the ball park and definitely don't want to shorten them.

Reference the only beer line length calculator worth using for why.

As for the carbonation: you're only about a third of the way to a fully carbed keg. Check out this thread, or just take a look at this graphic:

I'm in the 2.5 weeks camp myself, but I also have a fairly deep pipeline of kegged brews so I can afford taking the time

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

How are you force carbing? If your at 30 psi,the normal way,your way overcarbed at 5 days. Look into flow control taps and you can go back to your original 5 ft lines with hassle free pours. They'll be the best thing you can buy for kegging. What lines are your 10 ft lines. The home Depot stuff gave my problems when I was using them.

 

[StephanHaus]

Thank you so much for the info. I've really focused on the beer making process, and not as much as the serving process yet. I had read the set and forget method is much better for more accurate CO2 estimation, so I figured I would give it a try. Thanks for the help!

 

[StephanHaus]

And in terms of the flow control taps, I have been drooling over the perlicks for weeks. I am going to buy some in another few weeks because I love the idea of the control they give!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Thank you so much for the info. I've really focused on the beer making process, and not as much as the serving process yet. I had read the set and forget method is much better for more accurate CO2 estimation, so I figured I would give it a try. Thanks for the help!

Your original post says force carb, now your saying you tried set it and forget it. It can only be one way. How are you doing it? what PSI are you set at?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

And in terms of the flow control taps, I have been drooling over the perlicks for weeks. I am going to buy some in another few weeks because I love the idea of the control they give!

Ya, you might as well start out with them, They make for perfect pours. save your 5 ft lines and put them back when you get them

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Setting it and forgetting it is a type of force carbing....


And it says 12 psi right in the op....

 

[Yooper]

Your original post says force carb, now your saying you tried set it and forget it. It can only be one way. How are you doing it? what PSI are you set at?

Set it and forget it is force carbing. Force carbonation uses co2 to "force" carbonation into the beer, while "natural" carbonation generally uses priming sugar or some other means to carbonate the beer.

Using 12 psi to carbonate the beer is force carbonated.

Perhaps you are referring to "burst carbing", when a higher pressure than actually desired for the final volume of co2 is used to hurry the process along? That process works for many, but just as many will force carb by the "set it and forget it" method.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Set it and forget it is force carbing. Force carbonation uses co2 to "force" carbonation into the beer, while "natural" carbonation generally uses priming sugar or some other means to carbonate the beer.

Using 12 psi to carbonate the beer is force carbonated.

Perhaps you are referring to "burst carbing", when a higher pressure than actually desired for the final volume of co2 is used to hurry the process along? That process works for many, but just as many will force carb by the "set it and forget it" method.

I missed the 12 psi part. Force carbing has been the term used around here forever as the 30 psi method for 2 days. I do understand what your say though

 

[day_trippr]

Sigh. No, it hasn't...

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Sigh, yes it has.
Heres one example from 5 years ago. And then there's the other endless threads and comments from throughout the years. Yooper even chimed in on this one with a heading of "force carbing"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...263747&usg=AFQjCNHInSLSKuEHpwHIR2eUfJWXEUnAiA

 

[StephanHaus]

All good. Just to clarify with the others, I am force carbing with CO2, and have begun the set and forget method after some serious carbonic bite issues with my last force carbonation "30 psi burst" practices!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

All good. Just to clarify with the others, I am force carbing with CO2, and have begun the set and forget method after some serious carbonic bite issues with my last force carbonation "30 psi burst" practices!

The carbonic bite fades away after a couple days but either way works. Just depends on how fast you need a beer

 

[day_trippr]

Must.....not......respond....

 

[max384]

Sigh, yes it has.
Heres one example from 5 years ago. And then there's the other endless threads and comments from throughout the years. Yooper even chimed in on this one with a heading of "force carbing"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...263747&usg=AFQjCNHInSLSKuEHpwHIR2eUfJWXEUnAiA

Sorry man, but force carbing is simply forcing the CO2 into solution through external CO2 pressure, regardless of the method or PSI used. Basically, it is force carbonation vs. natural carbonation. Even in the link you provided above, it was used this way. And Yooper's post on the subject also does not support your position.

The method you called force carbonation is simply one method of force carbing, but it is definitely not the definition of force carbing, and it is not the term used around here as you had used it.

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon on this one... But I think this is a case of you misunderstanding the term, as opposed to it being consistently incorrectly used here.

 

[max384]

Hi all, I've made a couple of beer batches so far (so still a noob), and all of them have been kegged. However, I had a bad foaming problem so I decided to change my 5' lines out for 10' lines. I currently have some of Biermuncher's delicious Centennial Blonde recipe that I'm trying to force carb, but it's been about 5 days now, with no noticeable increase in bubbles or anything.

There is no head present when it pours, but I hear the tank hissing as it fills the keg after I release some CO2 vía the safety valve. I am using 12 psi @ 40F, but I was wondering if my new lines were maybe too long for my system? Or maybe I should compensate for them? Any help would be appreciated!

Long beer lines do not affect the amount of carbonation in your beer. It only affects the rate of flow of you beer. Whether you had 10 foot or 1 foot lines, the amount of carbonation would be the same.

I always use the "set it and forget it" method of force carbonation. And I don't even think of pouring the first glass until at least a week of force carbing at 12 PSI at 38 F.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Sorry man, but force carbing is simply forcing the CO2 into solution through external CO2 pressure, regardless of the method or PSI used. Basically, it is force carbonation vs. natural carbonation. Even in the link you provided above, it was used this way. And Yooper's post on the subject also does not support your position.

The method you called force carbonation is simply one method of force carbing, but it is definitely not the definition of force carbing, and it is not the term used around here as you had used it.

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon on this one... But I think this is a case of you misunderstanding the term, as opposed to it being consistently incorrectly used here.

I realize that forcing any amount of co2 is force carbing. Its as straight forward as it gets. But to say that it is not the term used around here for 30 psi is far from the truth...A 2 second Google "Force carbing homebrew" will show it. Heres a thread from 08. Correct or not its been used forever
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...105096&usg=AFQjCNEuEv1GhahpBEkVDp5ErQKh09rQag

 

[max384]

I realize that forcing any amount of co2 is force carbing. Its as straight forward as it gets. But to say that it is not the term used around here for 30 psi is far from the truth...A 2 second Google "Force carbing homebrew" will show it. Heres a thread from 08. Correct or not its been used forever
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...105096&usg=AFQjCNEuEv1GhahpBEkVDp5ErQKh09rQag

You still don't understand. The link you provided does not show the term being incorrectly used. Burst carbing is a type of forced carbing. So describing a beer being force carbed at high pressures initially as force carbing is correct.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You still don't understand. The link you provided does not show the term being incorrectly used. Burst carbing is a type of forced carbing. So describing a beer being force carbed at high pressures initially as force carbing is correct.

I understand perfectly. The fact that so few if any naturally carbonate a keg the term force carbing has come to be to understood as 30 psi by many. Here is a sticky from Bobby M that even references it in the very first sentence. Granted he says to disregard the term but to say its not a term that's been used forever is false.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73328

 

[afro_lou]

I understand perfectly. The fact that so few if any naturally carbonate a keg the term force carbing has come to be to understood as 30 psi by many. Here is a sticky from Bobby M that even references it in the very first sentence. Granted he says to disregard the term but to say its not a term that's been used forever is false.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73328

But, nobody's talking about natural carbonation... force carbing is quite literally forcing co2 into solution, natural carbonation would be from priming sugar.

And anyway, Bobby M then CONTINUES to call 30 psi carbing "Burst Carbing" for the rest of the article! I'm pretty sure that the majority consensus is that, while force carbing includes burst carbing under its "umbrella," standard force carbing is the "set and forget" method, while 30 psi carbing is the "burst" method.

 

[day_trippr]

Moving on...

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

But, nobody's talking about natural carbonation... force carbing is quite literally forcing co2 into solution, natural carbonation would be from priming sugar.

And anyway, Bobby M then CONTINUES to call 30 psi carbing "Burst Carbing" for the rest of the article! I'm pretty sure that the majority consensus is that, while force carbing includes burst carbing under its "umbrella," standard force carbing is the "set and forget" method, while 30 psi carbing is the "burst" method.

Natural carbing has been mentioned in this thread. Whats not to understand about this sentence that mentions people referring to force carbing and burst carbing interchangeably

"If you rely on a bottle of CO2 gas for carbing your kegged beer, there are basically two ways to go about it; set and forget and what I'll call "burst carbing". Some folks talk about this second method as "force carbing" but it's all done with force so forget it."

It doesn't matter if he refers to it as burst carbing the rest of the post. I got called out that nobody refers to force carbing as 30 psi for two days and that's false as stated in a sticky from Bobby M from 08.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Moving on...

I'm with ya..

 

[StephanHaus]

Didn't mean you to stir up trouble just wanted to know if Line length had any effect on carbonation, but you guys answered my question. Thanks

 

[max384]

Natural carbing has been mentioned in this thread. Whats not to understand about this sentence that mentions people referring to force carbing and burst carbing interchangeably

"If you rely on a bottle of CO2 gas for carbing your kegged beer, there are basically two ways to go about it; set and forget and what I'll call "burst carbing". Some folks talk about this second method as "force carbing" but it's all done with force so forget it."

It doesn't matter if he refers to it as burst carbing the rest of the post. I got called out that nobody refers to force carbing as 30 psi for two days and that's false as stated in a sticky from Bobby M from 08.

You got called out because you called someone else out, but were wrong about what you called him out on. Instead of doing the honorable thing and admit your mistake, you've desperately tried to backpedal and posted many links that only further show that you are wrong. Just admit it and move on.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You got called out because you called someone else out, but were wrong about what you called him out on. Instead of doing the honorable thing and admit your mistake, you've desperately tried to backpedal and posted many links that only further show that you are wrong. Just admit it and move on.

Show me where I called someone out. I was just trying to help out the OP.

 

[doug293cz]

Show me where I called someone out. I was just trying to help out the OP.

Here's one place.

If we are going to communicate effectively, we need to have a common definition of terms. You will be well served to adopt the terminology used by the majority. That is "forced carbonation" is applying pressurized CO2 to carbonate, and "burst carbonation" is forced carbonation using higher than the equilibrium CO2 pressure for the desired carbonation level. You are not the only one incorrectly using "forced" to imply "burst", but you are the one arguing about it after having been corrected. Trying to redefine terms where the majority disagrees with your redefinition is a losing battle, and only serves to confuse newer people. There is nothing standard about 30 psi for burst carbonation. Some people use lower for burst and some use higher. As long as you don't go too long at high pressure, any pressure higher than the equilibrium pressure will provide accelerated carbonation vs. equilibrium pressure carbonation. The higher the pressure relative to equilibrium, the more accelerated the carbonation will be.

And yes, I know I'm piling on.

Brew on

 

[Singletrack]

I bottle.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Here's one place.

If we are going to communicate effectively, we need to have a common definition of terms. You will be well served to adopt the terminology used by the majority. That is "forced carbonation" is applying pressurized CO2 to carbonate, and "burst carbonation" is forced carbonation using higher than the equilibrium CO2 pressure for the desired carbonation level. You are not the only one incorrectly using "forced" to imply "burst", but you are the one arguing about it after having been corrected. Trying to redefine terms where the majority disagrees with your redefinition is a losing battle, and only serves to confuse newer people. There is nothing standard about 30 psi for burst carbonation. Some people use lower for burst and some use higher. As long as you don't go too long at high pressure, any pressure higher than the equilibrium pressure will provide accelerated carbonation vs. equilibrium pressure carbonation. The higher the pressure relative to equilibrium, the more accelerated the carbonation will be.

And yes, I know I'm piling on.

Brew on

This is becoming comical.
The link is the farthest thing from starting with someone and laughable you would think that. I was simply addressing the OP concerns.Even the OP would agree.
Then I said I understood what Yooper was saying about anything under pressure is force carbing.
Then I was told twice that NOBODY has ever used burst and force carbing interchangeably. My entire and only argument was that they have been used interchangeably on the forum...Something you stated yourself "You are not the only one incorrectly using "forced" to imply "burst".
So thanks for piling on and agreeing with me.