London ESB 1968

[MountainGoatBrewing]

It says on the smack pack I just got that this yeast likes 1.060 OG or lower at 65-72º until fermentation is evident.

Is it of extreme importance to try to formulate or reproduce a recipe that falls under that gravity? What would happen if it were over by a bit...would fermentation just not happen?

Sorry for the newb question..

 

[mobilecabinworks]

I don't think there would be a serious problem. The numbers are the "ideal in an all perfect situation" you should have kinda thing.

 

[BainbridgeBrewer]

You'll be fine. Like mobilecabinworks said those are ideal conditions. I've used that yeast on a 1.067 OG beer and it came out just fine. I also fermented it around 62.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Not at all. Use it for whatever you want. This yeast actually does very well in high gravity worts, so do what you like.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

excellent news, guys - much obliged.

 

[1Mainebrew]

This yeast is excellent even with lower gravity worts, just make sure that you give it a good D-rest at room temp for at least a week AFTER you reach FG. This yeast really needs to stay in contact with the wort for like 3-4 weeks minimum. It will be very clear at this point, but your patience will be rewarded with more than sparklingly clear wort. Also, this yeast produces beers that are best served at like 50*F. The English ale serving temps are true with this yeast.

 

[GuldTuborg]

excellent news, guys - much obliged.

Say, MGB, are you a fan of John Darnielle, by chance?

 

[tesilential]

I pitched a vial into a 1.06 porter and it was delicious. I washed it and made another porter (no starter) and was also delicious.

I used half of that cake for a 1.084 OG Imperial stout. It finished at 1.022 in 30 hours! I added 1# of table sugar and it finished that in another day.

Ended up 10.2% ABV at 1.015 FG IN 4 days! Great yeast.

 

[thegerm]

that note is part of their garbage "homebrewer instructions" that recommend underpitching by about half the cell count you need. the implication being that if you were to go higher than 1.060, you'd need a second smackpack. well really if you go above 1.030 you need a second smackpack. if you go above 1.060 you'd need more like 3 or 4 smackpacks.

the real answer is to make an appropriate starter for liquid yeast(mrmalty.com). that is a great strain that will give you great english flavors, but it takes a bit more care than something like a california ale yeast.

 

[bh10]

We brew beers 1.080 regularly with that yeast with zero issue.

 

[smizak]

This yeast is excellent even with lower gravity worts, just make sure that you give it a good D-rest at room temp for at least a week AFTER you reach FG. This yeast really needs to stay in contact with the wort for like 3-4 weeks minimum. It will be very clear at this point, but your patience will be rewarded with more than sparklingly clear wort. Also, this yeast produces beers that are best served at like 50*F. The English ale serving temps are true with this yeast.

Actually, this yeast is best when the ferment gets slowed down a bit by dropping the temp 2/3 through. Preserves the ester profile and malt character

 

[PseudoChef]

This yeast is excellent even with lower gravity worts, just make sure that you give it a good D-rest at room temp for at least a week AFTER you reach FG. This yeast really needs to stay in contact with the wort for like 3-4 weeks minimum. It will be very clear at this point, but your patience will be rewarded with more than sparklingly clear wort. Also, this yeast produces beers that are best served at like 50*F. The English ale serving temps are true with this yeast.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with this as well. This yeast is fantastic to make quick beers since it floccs out fast and clear. If you keg, you can easily go grain to glass in 10 days with this strain. Pitching on the cooler side of fermentation temperature (pitch around 62, ferment around 64-65) and you should have no problems with diacetyl being evident. Even if it is present, it should only take about 2 days be metabolised, not a week.

 

[mattldm]

I just used 1968 for the first time in an ESB. I pitched at 63 and fermented at 64 and slowly raised the temp to 68 over 7 days. Just took a sample and it tastes great, no diacetyl that I can detect.

I have used WLP002 on several batches before and was never happy with the results, im liking the 1968 much better so far.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

again - awesome info here. I didn't have time for a starter, so hopefully yeast nutrient will help things go smoothly.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Ok, next logical question: What is a Diacetyl rest?

 

[thegerm]

you're not doing yourself any favors by skipping out on the starter. nutrient is no substitute. it's about equivalent to saying, "I don't have time for dinner so I'll take a multivitamin instead."

it would be well worth your while to delay pitching 24 hours in order to make a starter.

 

[mobilecabinworks]

I'm on the fence about starters. I know plenty of folks who have made great beer just from pitching a single smack pack into the fermenter for moderately ranged OG beers.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

^That's good to hear.

@ thegerm - I'm pretty new at brewing, and time happened to be a consideration on this batch. I'm just moving from kits to extract partial boils; eventually I'd like to move on to starters/full boils/all grain, but I'm not trying to go from never having done something to full on advanced level in one step.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Why would they make yeast with nutrients in the pack if they don't work?

 

[GuldTuborg]

I'm on the fence about starters. I know plenty of folks who have made great beer just from pitching a single smack pack into the fermenter for moderately ranged OG beers.

Sure, but the question is how much better could that same beer have been had a starter been made? It's a question we'll never know exactly, but the fact that most every professional brewery (and most seasoned homebrewers) advise and use a fairly standard pitch rate should tell you something, namely, empirical evidence shows beers tend to be better when pitched at a certain rate.

Why would they make yeast with nutrients in the pack if they don't work?

The nutrient does work, but it still doesn't (and isn't designed to) get you the cell count that you ought to have, per the accepted practice. Again, you can deviate from this standard if you like, but you will get different results. Whether those results will be better, worse, or indistinguishable to you, and whether the bother of a starter is worth it to you, only you can decide. I'd at least try it over the course of a half dozen brews (of the same beer) to see if it helps. That's the only way you'll ever figure this out. Listening to people on this board isn't going to get you any brewing experience.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Interesting stuff. So say fermentation doesn't take off tonight (after 24hrs)...what should I do then?

And what is this standard pitch rate?

 

[thegerm]

^That's good to hear.

@ thegerm - I'm pretty new at brewing, and time happened to be a consideration on this batch. I'm just moving from kits to extract partial boils; eventually I'd like to move on to starters/full boils/all grain, but I'm not trying to go from never having done something to full on advanced level in one step.

I totally respect that. You might wanna consider using S04 dry yeast next time. It's a good yeast and has enough cell count per packet that you wouldn't need to do a starter if you're in a rush.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Will definitely look into that, though from what I've been reading, liquid yeast is far superior...

Can I do a starter in one day? I thought I saw in the Palmer book that 3-4 days was necessary...

 

[thegerm]

Will definitely look into that, though from what I've been reading, liquid yeast is far superior...

Can I do a starter in one day? I thought I saw in the Palmer book that 3-4 days was necessary...

Liquid yeast is only superior when compared cell for cell.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Liquid yeast gives you much more variety. I don't know if it's necessarily better than dry yeast.

There are some good primers and videos to be found on making starters, but the Cliffs Notes version is this:

-figure your starter size at http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
-get your yeast out of the fridge and let it slowly warm to room temp
-mix water and light DME at a ratio of 10:1 by weight and bring to a boil for 10-15 minutes
-cool and prepare your starter vessel (clean, sanitize, etc.)
-pour starter wort into the vessel when it's around 70F, give or take a few degrees, cover with sanitized foil, and shake furiously for 30-60sec
-add yeast
-if possible, swirl every (half) hour for the first few hours to get a little more oxygen in there

That's your starter. If it's about 1qt or smaller, you can make it around 24hrs before pitching time and just pitch the whole starter. If it's larger than that, I'd make it about 3 days ahead of time. Then toss it in the fridge 24hrs before pitching and allow yeast to settle. A couple hours before pitching, take it out of the fridge, pour most of the nasty beer off top (keep the yeast), and allow to slowly warm up to pitching temps. Then pitch the slurry.

That's all there is to it. It's actually very easy once you've done it once. The only possible snag is that you have to be very attentive to sanitation while making starters. If your sanitation is spotty at all, I'd advise just using dry yeast for now, as stated above.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Ok, so I only used one pack at 100B, and from that calculator, I probably needed two.

Am I screwed? Will this thing ferment or not!?!

^Also, to answer your earlier question - my name's got no relation the band, it's a take off my old music production company of the same name (Mountain Goat Productions)

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

can I just add another tomorrow, which will be about 48 hours after the first pitch?

 

[thegerm]

it will ferment. it's just going to go through a lot more growth, which may produce some flavors you don't want. it's also possible it won't attenuate as far as you want. it's also possible it might turn out fantastic. at this point you've pitched the yeast and it is fermenting. so don't worry, let it do it's thing. all this talk about starters and dry vs liquid at this point is really more fyi for your next batch.

 

[tesilential]

No doubt there is a generally accepted pitching rate range depending on the gravity of the wort.

That said, I rarely ever make starters and in fact my worst two beers had 4L starters. I usually brew around 1.05-1.06 and just pitch a smack pack. After fermentation I harvest some with some distilled water in a mason jar. Then when I want to use that yeast again I just take it out of the fridge, let it warm up, then decant and pitch.

 

[GuldTuborg]

^Also, to answer your earlier question - my name's got no relation the band, it's a take off my old music production company of the same name (Mountain Goat Productions)

I'm surprised you know of The Mountain Goats, the band, at all. I have an unhealthy obsession with the man's music. He's been gaining a growing audience over the years, it seems, but he's not exactly what I'd call well known.

Fermentation will probably go fine. Don't add more yeast. thegerm covered the basics above, and stressed well the point of all of this discussion. I'd rouse the yeast a bit at the tail end of fermentation, just to be on the safe side, as this stuff drops so quickly. Be prepared for it to drop a few points every time you rack it, too, as that always seems to get it going again. It's a strangely attenuative yeast, if you treat it right, but it can also underattenuate if you treat it right as well - it all depends what you're after. I find it a fairly finicky and unforgiving yeast, which is why I don't use it anymore, but it's hard to argue with the results when it's managed well; the flavors are fantastic. Good luck and keep us posted with how things go.

 

[smizak]

I'm surprised you know of The Mountain Goats, the band, at all. I have an unhealthy obsession with the man's music. He's been gaining a growing audience over the years, it seems, but he's not exactly what I'd call well

John Darnielle is the man. I went through a long Mountain Goats phase.

OP, beer will be fine.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Ok, I'm sure this issue has been discussed ad nauseum, but I'm curious about racking or not racking now...especially as it applies to this yeast.

I originally planned on racking after 7 days, and dry hopping at that time and leaving it in the secondary for 2 weeks or so. I am now having second thoughts after reading so much about how it's not really necessary and how clarity can actually be better if you just leave it in the primary for 3-4 weeks and then keg or bottle.

I'm real curious if one way or the other is preferable based on the type of yeast used. This isn't a high gravity brew (est. 6.2%), and no fruit or anything besides a hop bag is going in it, but I do know that 1968 is a very high flocculating strain...is that relevant?

Is there a basic rule to follow when using specific yeast strains in regards to time in the fermenter?

 

[GuldTuborg]

but I do know that 1968 is a very high flocculating strain...is that relevant?

Absolutely. You're using the most flocculant strain I know of, and it's almost difficult to get a cloudy beer with this yeast. If I were you, I'd just dry hop it now for a week or so, and then bottle/keg, only because it's the easiest thing to do. Or, I think so, anyway. Do what's easiest for you.

There's no general rule, but some strains definitely seem to finish faster than others. I haven't paid enough attention to this yeast to remember where it stands. I also haven't used it in about 18 months. Most English strains are on the fast side of the spectrum, though. Other factors, like pitch rate, fermentation temps, and OG will alter how long to leave it be. The general answer is "until it's done," but that's not terribly helpful as a predictor. I suppose experience with a recipe is the best predictor.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Thanks, man!

 

[SwampassJ]

I had WLP002 (same strain as 1968) cleared and ready to transfer in under a week, problem was I gave it an extra week at 50 to promote clearing because I wasn't able to get to it. In that week it cleaned up some of the esters I really wanted to keep.

Just keep an eye on the fg, if it seems to be finishing high gently swirl the bucket/carboy without splashing the beer around a few times and then recheck gravity in a day or two to see if it's still falling.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

Just keep an eye on the fg, if it seems to be finishing high gently swirl the bucket/carboy without splashing the beer around a few times and then recheck gravity in a day or two to see if it's still falling.

Ok, I may not be able to get to it for 3 days in a row (as suggested) to check to see if the FG stays the same. I was thinking that if if just hit the projected number I'd be good, but the OG didn't measure out as per the beer calculator I used. Basically, according to my ingredients, I was supposed to hit 1.068, but the actual reading was 1.060.

My question is, since the FG is supposed to be 1.021, should I still be looking for that number since my OG was off by -.008? Or should I expect the FG to be 1.021-.008?

 

[GuldTuborg]

My question is, since the FG is supposed to be 1.021, should I still be looking for that number since my OG was off by -.008? Or should I expect the FG to be 1.021-.008?

I forget how you got that FG number. If it was spit out by a software program, it's most likely garbage and I'd ignore it. If you had a recipe that you followed/bought, complete with FG number, and you followed the recipe exactly, it should be reasonably accurate. Just check the gravity again as you are able. If it's more or less the same, and very roughly the same % of the OG as the recipe (after adjusting for your lower OG), you're ready to bottle.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

I used an online beer calculator that someone on here suggested. I figure the beer will take 3 weeks total before bottling, but I was under the impression that the fermentation is done anywhere between 4-10 days.

I was wondering about the FG being reached after about week so that I could dry hop and let it sit around for another 2 weeks before bottling. Am I way off on my assumptions?

 

[GuldTuborg]

Am I way off on my assumptions?

Not at all. For the bulk of beers, your thinking is correct. There are always exceptions, but usually there's an explanation for each of them. If you're at or very close to finishing fermentation, dry hop away without worry. Bottle when you're ready. I've dry hopped up to 2 weeks before without any "vegetal flavors" that some people talk of, but that's hardly compelling evidence that you can and should also do it. I'd recommend starting with 1 week, which is pretty average, and go from there.

 

[MountainGoatBrewing]

thank you kindly, sir - all the info is of great help. I'll check again in a couple of days and wait a bit before throwing in the hops...