liner or contractor bag to hold water?

[safedude]

Ok.. I know this is an odd topic and bags are not meant to hold 10 gallons of water, but I'm going to try anyways. I have a really small (odd shaped) chest fridge that I want to fill with water. the fridge has an exposed (not waterproof) thermostat and a bunch of seams that I don't trust.

My first thought was to find a container or bin to place inside, but it's not feasible for my application due to the odd dimensions.

Then the crazy, and probably stupid, idea of lining it with a really thick contractor bag came to mind. I found some online that are 6Mil thick. For good measure I'd triple or quadruple bag it. The weight of the water wouldn't be suspended. It would simply line the fridge and hug the sides and bottom.

Does anyone know of a large watertight bag of some sort. I'm looking for a diameter of ~3'. Maybe a pond liner??

 

[d_rock]

I'd bet a contractor grade yard waste bag would be sealed tight enough to hold. I'll bite, what's the intended use for the freezer pool?

 

[BrunDog]

You need to make sure the fridge walls can hold the pressure. That may be a lot of tension on the corners and walls.

 

[GHBWNY]

What about silicone-caulking or spray-foaming ("Great Stuff", etc.) the seams? As for the thermostat, could it somehow be isolated from the water by itself?

 

[mongoose33]

I was going to suggest, as d-rock did, a contractor-grade trash bag. I have some I use to put spent brewers grain in to give to a friend who feeds chickens with it. It's pretty sturdy, and as long as there is nothing inside your refrigerator which would puncture it, I'm sure it would work.

To me, the other question is what you're going to use the water for. Is it potable water? Just a heat sink to cool water for an immersion chiller? I don't know that I would be comfortable using a contractor-grade trash bag for water I'd be drinking.

 

[mongoose33]

You need to make sure the fridge walls can hold the pressure. That may be a lot of tension on the corners and walls.

Good question. If it's iffy, perhaps you could use straps wrapped around it in a couple places to help support the structure.

 

[safedude]

I'd bet a contractor grade yard waste bag would be sealed tight enough to hold. I'll bite, what's the intended use for the freezer pool?

It's hopefully my cooling vessel for my immersion chiller.

 

[safedude]

Good question. If it's iffy, perhaps you could use straps wrapped around it in a couple places to help support the structure.

That's a good idea. I'll tighten her down with 3 or 4 ratchet straps.

 

[safedude]

What about silicone-caulking or spray-foaming ("Great Stuff", etc.) the seams? As for the thermostat, could it somehow be isolated from the water by itself?

I haven't thought about that. Do you think the silicon or foam could hold the water pressure?

 

[broadbill]

I'll add my thoughts as I have noodled a similar application:

They make food grade liners, and they have been used by brewers to ferment beer in. Years ago on another forum there were people using non-food grade containers (BRUTE cans) with food grade liners in them to ferment large batches.

Alot of manufacturing scale production of biologic (cells, vaccines, etc) are done using a format that uses a bag.

If I wanted to line my chest freezer I think I would pay special attention to sharp seams. They may silicone tape that would be handy to slap over seams as well (if not for water resistance than for puncture resistance).

You will need to give some thought to how you will move whatever liquid goes in there. Chest freezer are generally located on the floor so you may not be able to syphon, so you wil have to look at pumps.

good luck!

 

[BrunDog]

It's hopefully my cooling vessel for my immersion chiller.

This seems like a notsogood plan. First, how will the water be cooled? If the fridge has a fan for circulating air, it will be blocked. If it has a cool plate, it will take a long period of operation for the heat to be pulled through the insulating bags. Second, you will need the water to be very cold in advance - there is no way the water could be cooled on the fly.

You would be better off freezing a few jugs of water and putting those in a tub of water, IMO.

 

[safedude]

This seems like a notsogood plan. First, how will the water be cooled? If the fridge has a fan for circulating air, it will be blocked. If it has a cool plate, it will take a long period of operation for the heat to be pulled through the insulating bags. Second, you will need the water to be very cold in advance - there is no way the water could be cooled on the fly.

You would be better off freezing a few jugs of water and putting those in a tub of water, IMO.

What do you mean cooled on the fly? This thing is for cooling fermentation, not the wort- so It'll have plenty of time to sit there and cool down. The purpose of this is to avoid cluttering up my bathtub. I don't plan on filling it to the brim. There will be plenty of headspace for cool air circulation.

 

[jddevinn]

The heat transfer from the freezer to the "pond" of coolant will be very very slow, and definitely slower than the heat transfer from the immersion coils in the wort. Depending on how much you are cooling you could easily overload the "ponds" cooling capacity.

Look up some of the threads on using a window A/C as a glycol cooler. You can make something sub $200 that will work MUCH better than a cooling pond.

 

[safedude]

The heat transfer from the freezer to the "pond" of coolant will be very very slow, and definitely slower than the heat transfer from the immersion coils in the wort. Depending on how much you are cooling you could easily overload the "ponds" cooling capacity.

Look up some of the threads on using a window A/C as a glycol cooler. You can make something sub $200 that will work MUCH better than a cooling pond.

I was planning on using this for after already cooling the wort. My idea was for regulating fermentation temperatures for the following weeks (using an inkbird temp regulator). I'm not at all trying to cool 212 degrees to 65 with this system.. I have a wort chiller for that. Realistically I'm trying to keep the beer in the 60's with an ambient of around 75. I'm still not convinced this is not possible.

I should mention this is for only 5 gallons of beer.

 

[WI_Wino]

They make food grade liners, and they have been used by brewers to ferment beer in. Years ago on another forum there were people using non-food grade containers (BRUTE cans) with food grade liners in them to ferment large batches.

The white, gray, and other colored Brute cans are NFS rated food grade. I ferment in them directly with no liner.

http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=2620

 

[jddevinn]

I was planning on using this for after already cooling the wort. My idea was for regulating fermentation temperatures for the following weeks (using an inkbird temp regulator). I'm not at all trying to cool 212 degrees to 65 with this system.. I have a wort chiller for that. Realistically I'm trying to keep the beer in the 60's with an ambient of around 75. I'm still not convinced this is not possible.

I should mention this is for only 5 gallons of beer.

This should be possible, however I doubt you'll be able to cold crash with the system. It will cycle more than you think and you may have icing issues around where the coils contact the "pond". Honestly I'd go with the proven glycol chiller route.

 

[dye4me]

I would never use anything made to hold garbage for anything food or water related. Too many urban legends about germicide and other biological control products being used in garbage bags production. Go food grade liner or possibly yard and garden bag but avoid anything for garbage, they all kinda have a weird smell anyways.

 

[jddevinn]

I would never use anything made to hold garbage for anything food or water related. Too many urban legends about germicide and other biological control products being used in garbage bags production. Go food grade liner or possibly yard and garden bag but avoid anything for garbage, they all kinda have a weird smell anyways.

This is a coolant reservoir it would never come in direct contact with anything that is being eaten or drank.

 

[broadbill]

I was planning on using this for after already cooling the wort. My idea was for regulating fermentation temperatures for the following weeks (using an inkbird temp regulator). I'm not at all trying to cool 212 degrees to 65 with this system.. I have a wort chiller for that. Realistically I'm trying to keep the beer in the 60's with an ambient of around 75. I'm still not convinced this is not possible.

I should mention this is for only 5 gallons of beer.

Did I miss where you couldn't just put the fermenter into the chest freezer instead of a rigging an elaborate external chiller system?

 

[GrogNerd]

I would never use anything made to hold garbage for anything food or water related. Too many urban legends about germicide and other biological control products being used in garbage bags production. Go food grade liner or possibly yard and garden bag but avoid anything for garbage, they all kinda have a weird smell anyways.

yeah, not so sure he's using it in the actual production, just as a way to hold a cooling medium. like glycol isn't used IN beer, just as a way to keep it at temperature

kind of confusing about what he's using it for... somewhere in the middle of the thread, he says

It's hopefully my cooling vessel for my immersion chiller.

but then says it's NOT for cooling wort. OK

from what I understand, the small, odd-shaped chest freezer won't hold his ferment vessel, so he wants to fill the freezer with water to keep temps as the lid won't be able to close and hold cool air. so the FV will be mostly sticking out of the freezer.

I suggest NOT going that route, but build a collar to make the freezer taller to fit your bucket.

most of us who have converted fridges or freezers into fermentation chambers aren't pushing the limits on what those appliances were designed to do. I wouldn't recommend altering one to hold a couple gallons of water that wasn't designed to do so

not very safe, dude

 

[WrQth]

If the fermentation vessel fits in the oddly shaped chest freezer allowing the top to close, why the need of a "water bath" in the oddly shaped chest freezer which the fermentation vessel is placed in?

Build a temp controller with an STC1000 or get a Ronco or Inkbird temperature controller that would turn on the power to the oddly shaped chest freezer.

 

[GrogNerd]

If the fermentation vessel fits in the oddly shaped chest freezer allowing the top to close, why the need of a "water bath" in the oddly shaped chest freezer which the fermentation vessel is placed in?

Build a temp controller with an STC1000 or get a Ronco or Inkbird temperature controller that would turn on the power to the oddly shaped chest freezer.

now that I re-read the OP, I see it says whatever "container or bin" he wanted to place inside was what wouldn't fit.

he doesn't say whether the FV would fit or not, I made the assumption it would not.

and you know what happens when you make an assumption, right? you make an a$$ out of U and Umption

 

[WrQth]

now that I re-read the OP, I see it says whatever "container or bin" he wanted to place inside was what wouldn't fit.

he doesn't say whether the FV would fit or not, I made the assumption it would not.

and you know what happens when you make an assumption, right? you make an a$$ out of U and Umption

Here I am assuming as well but I think he's trying to make a "swamp cooler" in the chest freezer but this would be unnecessary since the oddly shaped chest freezer is the replacement/upgrade from a "swamp cooler"

 

[GrogNerd]

Here I am assuming as well but I think he's trying to make a "swamp cooler" in the chest freezer but this would be unnecessary since the oddly shaped chest freezer is the replacement/upgrade from a "swamp cooler"

exactly

 

[BrunDog]

Ya, I have no idea what he is doing. Best of luck either way!

 

[jddevinn]

here's another thread of his on the same topic. And another. In the other two threads I assumed that he was trying to cool a larger conical. Several of us do this with glycol chillers, and I have seen several people try to do it with water reservoirs in coolers.

 

[safedude]

A lot of confusion here. I don't know where some of you made your assumptions from. I will admit I wasn't exactly clear, but No where did I say the FV would go into the chest fridge.
Look:

Fridge with cold water in it.

FV is NOT in the fridge, but rather next to it.

Submersible pump in fridge water running to a coil that is inside the fermenter.

It cycles through and comes back to the fridge.

The concept I don't have an issue with. My question was in regards to a waterproof bag, but I appreciate any and all input!

 

[safedude]

here's another thread of his on the same topic. And another. In the other two threads I assumed that he was trying to cool a larger conical. Several of us do this with glycol chillers, and I have seen several people try to do it with water reservoirs in coolers.

Thanks

 

[GrogNerd]

between those 2 other threads, I think I have a handle on it now

I would still advise against the water tank idea, maybe turn the chest freezer into something more like a jockey box, with copper or stainless coils in it?

 

[BrunDog]

A lot of confusion here. I don't know where some of you made your assumptions from. I will admit I wasn't exactly clear, but No where did I say the FV would go into the chest fridge.
Look:

Fridge with cold water in it.

FV is NOT in the fridge, but rather next to it.

Submersible pump in fridge water running to a coil that is inside the fermenter.

It cycles through and comes back to the fridge.

The concept I don't have an issue with. My question was in regards to a waterproof bag, but I appreciate any and all input!

Got it. Not sure why you didn't just say that originally, but whatever.

It's basic thermodynamics. It may work. But the temperature differential in your fermenter will be the determining factor. If it's a few degrees, should work. Slowly, but will work. If it's more than that, say >10 or 15 degrees, it's a wasted effort. The fridge can out pull heat out that fast. They are not that powerful, unlike purpose built glycol chillers. And the thermal interfaces will make everything difficult (beer -> coil -> coolant -> fridge (through bags).