LHBS (when your LHBS Stinks and it is time to walk away)

[markvale5]

I have a MoreBeer shop 10 minutes away from me. The shop itself is small but the usually have everything I need and if they don't they can order it for the next week.

 

[ericrichards420]

I think your just being anal about the whole thing. You want a higher gravity through in some more fermentables like honey or sugar. Try moving up to a all grain method like brew in a bag. I wouldn't burn my bridge especially if its in your area.

 

[thaymond]

I feel very fortunate. CBW by me is awesome. Super friendly and helpful staff, reasonable prices, tons of choice and full inventory. It's rare if they don't have something, and it's usually in within a few days. Now it's also an operating brewery and TapRoom. Which makes it even better! Plus it's 10 minutes away. Can't beat it.

In the cases of negligence or demeaning owners, it would be best to move on. Those places most likely won't stay open long because word gets out. This community is still relatively small and there's a lot of networking of brewers through clubs and the like. If a place gets a bad rap, others will find out and soon they'll have no customers. OP you're better off planning ahead and going to the places that are further from the house, as well as purchasing ingredients for self made recipes. As an Ag Brewer, I forgot how much extract costs!

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

I'm going to echo and add to a bunch of comments here.

1) get away from kits. Even with extract, you can be very creative with recipes and HBT is a great place to get them. No matter what kind of brewing you do, it's an art. Put together your own kit.

2) buy what you can online. Extract is heavy, so it's probably more economical at your LHBS, but maybe not. I get everything except grain online (I do all grain brewing now). My LHBS has to make money, I get it, but $5.00 for 1.75oz of hops and $6.00 for 1.75oz of premium hops it outrageous. I buy online. Yes, it's in little baggies and I'm getting shortchanged

3) Your priming sugar issue is not an issue. In fact, when I used to buy kits from one site I removed the priming sugar because I bought it in 4lb bags online.

4) Get yourself a 3lb bag of DME, a 4lb bag or corn sugar, some agave, some honey, brown sugar, cane sugar, and belgian candy sugar on hand. Need to boost your OG - problem solved.

Good luck my friend...happy brewing!

 

[paperairplane]

Yeah, I have 1 store that carries minimal gear, mostly preapackaged kits and a few varieties of hops and yeast.

Entire inventory for the entire store is probably $1500 or less. And that only because he has a fair number of kegs and carboys.

Did I mention only open Friday afternoon and Saturdays...

 

[rodwha]

"You want a higher gravity through in some more fermentables like honey or sugar."

This would certainly solve the problem, but if it states a given gravity and falls way short I wouldn't be happy either, especially paying that much for a light beer. It's one thing to be off a little bit, but to be way off... It should be as advertised.

 

[caver95]

I think you would be doing the owner a favor if you sent an email. However, if he is not a homebrewer and just wants to make a few bucks he should really focus on the quality of service and products they sell. I think I would love to own a homebrew shop. Not sure my area could support any more, and the lbs is awesome.

I might be willing to revisit if he addresses the issue. I also try to give my shop the option of selling to me for online pricing. Sometimes they can make it and others they cant.

Good luck

 

[odonnpj]

I feel your pain, but at least you have options. I have 1 LHBS within an hour or 1.5 hours of me, and it just opened. I was very excited to check it out and have some conversations as I'm very new to brewing. But, it is more of a craft beer store (very impressive selection) that sells a few ingredients and has one or two kits in stock. The employees didn't know anything about brewing which was a huge bummer. I'm hoping they up their game. I might stop by to purchase some basic supplies such as caps, and clean tubing. They didn't even have any sanitizers...alas I'm stuck ordering online and dealing with expensive shipping.

 

[Paps]

BUYER BEWARE.......
A.K.A. take responsibility for your own purchases.
If you "Just barely" made your gravity, to me that means you "made your gravity"
If you want a higher gravity then like previously mentioned stock some extra malt extract or other form of fermentable. Sugar,honey,sorgum syrup,maple syrup,apple juice concentrate,ect,ect.(you can get creative here)
Don't rely on store made kits especially if the "dingbat behind the counter" is known for commonly misreading scales/forgetting items for kits,ect.
If they have been around for 10 years and STILL don't have much of a knowledge of brewing then don't hold your breath on that ever changing.Accept them for what they are and make your purchases based on whether you want their product or not.
Happy brewing.

 

[Pyg]

below is the email response I received.
Not the response I was hoping for, but at least it was a response.

"Thank you Pyg,
I am working on a test batch at my house with*a small amount of
maize to see how this impacts the taste.
Thank you letting me know about this. I am here each weekend so please introduce yourself the next time to are here.
Mike(name changed)"

I responded to his response and reminded him that he has known me for better part of 10 year. I also pointed him toward a few Cream Ale recipes from various sources, most extract, but all using close to 6# of fermentables.
I also pointed him toward Brewtoad to be able to see other recipes, not just the ones he gets in his clone book.

Finally I looked up all the ingredients on the store web site. I put them into a database and calculated what all items would cost separately. (Hops in 2oz packs for $7.50 seem pricey). the total cost came out to be $39.45. The kit was listed as $42.95.

LME 3.3 $13.95
DME 2# $13.00
HP 1oz $3.75
hp .5oz $1.88
hp .5oz $1.88
ySt $4.50
Prime Sugar 4 oz $0.49
Total $39.45

However as stated in my OP I had some "customer appreciation store coupons"
Therefore I ended up getting the beer kit ($42.95) And a small bottle of Star San ($10.95), for $25. So while I may feel cheated by the kit, I guess I made out better than I had thought.

But from Now on, I am buying all my ingredients and I will not leave my brewing up to whom ever fills a box!

 

[blackbeer]

forget the drama and use some other business or better yet, online. he'll be out of business soon anyway it sounds like and maybe you can get a good deal on his going out of business sale.

 

[GHBWNY]

You may have to make other choices, not as convenient, but better. Ultimately, don't buy a pre-assembled kit from someone you suspect doesn't know how to pre-assemble a kit. You ended up with a lot of hassle and worry (and potentially the success of your 5 gal. of brew) in spite of your "discount". If for now, you do change retailers, I would kindly let your regular one know why, but don't burn that bridge --- they may end up serving you better down the road someday. Maybe sooner than later.

I once bought a kit from my local LHBS assuming everything in it was good. When I got it home, I discovered the yeast was past the BIUB date. That meant a return to the store (25 mi. round trip) to exchange it. Even at that, they didn't have a fresh yeast in that style and I had to order it. No prob, except it set back my brew day a week. Since then, if I bought a kit, I would bring it to the counter and check everything in it right in front of the owner. No problems from then on.

 

[Pyg]

I have spent the last few weeks emailing back and forth with the owner.
I tried to get him to understand that the kit was falsely label "American cream style ale", when in fact there were no ingredients that would make It anything along the lines of a cream ale.
I have received nothing but responses indicating he will "add corn to a recipe at home and see if it makes a difference.
The owner does not seem to understand my frustration, and does not seem to want to admit that I was sold something that was falsly labeled.
I have done my best to not directly burn a bridge and declare I will never return to this LHBS, but I guess since he won't get the hint I will just quietly never return .

 

[fuzzy2133]

Sorry to hear that Pyg. At the very least you have a back up for non perishable items.

 

[Pyg]

Finally got around to bottling the "cream" ale I was sold.
It smells and tastes like corona more than anything else.

Just another reason to he disappointed with this outing

 

[adamdillabo]

This thread makes me feel better about my LHBS. One of them anyways. The bad one is a "wine and cake" store. Mostly cake supplies and a few kits that look out of the 80s for beer. But they do a groupon once or twice a year. So I'll stop in and get a 1L flask and a few other odds and ends.

After a few extracts check out brew in a bag. With a washed yeast you can do 3 gallons for under $20. Bought the ingredients for $15 today for an ESB.

 

[Pyg]

And it is bottled,
I just hope there is no issue with carbonation
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1427044867.169572.jpg

 

[brewbama]

Why not take your new found knowledge, and make up some recipes, the proper amount of ingredients, and instructions. Type them out and try talking to the owner about implementing some of your recipes in his store.

You stated neither he nor the old lady brew beer, so they probably just don't know any better.

Perhaps you can come to some sort of agreement, and get the in store kits for a discount.

People tend to respond better when they feel they are being helped, and not attacked or threatened, not that that was your intention

This sounds like the cool thing to do.

 

[Ivypunx]

I have a brew store 5 minutes away from my house. The owner and employees are extract brewers and discourage all grain. When I was considering biab, the owner not only discouraged it, but attempted to demean me. So I now make a 25 minute drive to the next closest LHBS. I didn't confront the owner in any way. I simply moved on.

Seriously, brewing store owners discourage all grain? That's bananas

 

[chawn]

Seriously, brewing store owners discourage all grain? That's bananas

Agreed. He's an extract only brewer with no knowledge of AG. He does, however, sell some of the equipment; I doubt much gets sold. He's the perfect model on how not to run a LHBS.

 

[nanogi]

Agreed. He's an extract only brewer with no knowledge of AG. He does, however, sell some of the equipment; I doubt much gets sold. He's the perfect model on how not to run a LHBS.

I think that's because he makes more profit from selling extracts than barley malt. He is definitely the perfect model of how not to run an LHBS

 

[adamdillabo]

All grain is so easy in theory. Best to keep the customer in the dark.

 

[likwidbliss]

I wouldn't have even posted. I would frequent a reputable LBHS.

 

[Pyg]

I wouldn't have even posted. I would frequent a reputable LBHS.

I posted as a form of therapy since SWMBO doesnt want to hear it.
it is also nice to get feedback on these issues.

This morning I sent the proprietor an email outlining my frustration
1-mislabeled kit
2-his lack of understanding of what a "cream ale" actually is
3-I know have many bottles of beer in a style I neither wanted or may not like
4-I know have to go buy what I actually thought I purchased the first time
5- I will go elsewhere for these purchases

Despite all my prior posts this place is not a seedy hole in the wall. It is a nice place, run by some nice people, albeit not knowledgeable.
They have been in business atleast 10 years, but I think most people buy kits or simple ingredients.
No walks in to trouble shoot or for feedback.

But that is the difference between this place and other places.
There is no discussion or information to be had here, just supplies.
This is seen clearly with the proprietor's response to my concern that the "cream ale" had no flaked corn, " I will bench test that at home to see if it makes a difference".

Simply put I dont know what they could do to make me come back,
so I am moving on!

 

[Randomnoob]

This whole discussion makes me feel fortunate that I have such a great home brew shop a few miles away. He has pretty much everything I've ever needed and he even sells hop rhizomes as well. He's given me some great advice the last two years and is a fountain of knowledge. Everyone should have a LHBS like the one I go to.

 

[fuzzy2133]

This whole discussion makes me feel fortunate that I have such a great home brew shop a few miles away. He has pretty much everything I've ever needed and he even sells hop rhizomes as well. He's given me some great advice the last two years and is a fountain of knowledge. Everyone should have a LHBS like the one I go to.

+1 LHBS is not the best looking but the owners knowledge is great. Sadly he struggles with staff that is knowledgeable and reliable. The current guy is good just needs to stay and learn all the knowledge .

 

[Pyg]

This morning I sent the proprietor an email outlining my frustration
1-mislabeled kit
2-his lack of understanding of what a "cream ale" actually is
3-I know have many bottles of beer in a style I neither wanted or may not like
4-I know have to go buy what I actually thought I purchased the first time
5- I will go elsewhere for these purchases

Despite all my prior posts this place is not a seedy hole in the wall. It is a nice place, run by some nice people, albeit not knowledgeable.
They have been in business atleast 10 years, but I think most people buy kits or simple ingredients.
No walks in to trouble shoot or for feedback.

The following is the email received to my complain yesterday.
as indicated above, I explained very simply what this LHBS sells as a "cream Ale" is not what BJCP considered to be "cream Ale".
This is the response I received

"Thank your for sharing the review. We have been using this recipe for many years and have not yet recd a similar response.

Again thank you for the details"

I dont know what worries me more, the fact that he refuses to acknowledge that what he is selling is not "cream ale" or that people who buy it think it is !
I guess that was the nail in the coffin, I will move on!
:smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack:

 

[stpug]

Just to be certain, the BJCP ingredient suggestions are this:

Ingredients: American ingredients most commonly used. A grain bill of six-row malt, or a combination of six-row and North American two-row, is common. Adjuncts can include up to 20% flaked maize in the mash, and up to 20% glucose or other sugars in the boil. Soft water preferred. Any variety of hops can be used for bittering and finishing.

They make it abundantly clear that neither corn nor rice are a requirement (they "can [be] included" "up to" a certain percentage); ZERO-20% rice and/or corn. Malt are usually american in nature, but not always. Soft water is suggested but not required. And, any hop can be used.

A cream ale can be made with no corn, no rice, no sugar, no american malts, hard water, and it can still be called a cream ale if the taste fits the category.

 

[vwmasstransit]

My closest LHBS is 2 1/2 hour drive up the interstate from me. SOO, I order all my stuff online and I would suggest the same for you. The kits are always consistent and it has forced me to plan ahead to ensure I have everything. I'm an AG guy, and have moved on to building my own recipes, but I know their extract kits are just as consistent. This way you also have more time to relax and plan things out from the comfort of your home. Sorry to hear you've had such a rough go at it as brewing for me is total zen. I would suggest using Midwest supplies, norther brewer, or adventures in homebrewing. All 3 have amazing customer service and quality product.

Best of luck to ya.

 

[Pyg]

Just to be certain, the BJCP ingredient suggestions are this:

They make it abundantly clear that neither corn nor rice are a requirement (they "can [be] included" "up to" a certain percentage); ZERO-20% rice and/or corn. Malt are usually american in nature, but not always. Soft water is suggested but not required. And, any hop can be used.

A cream ale can be made with no corn, no rice, no sugar, no american malts, hard water, and it can still be called a cream ale if the taste fits the category.

BJCP also indicates :
"6A. Cream Ale

Aroma: Faint malt notes. A sweet, corn-like aroma and low levels of DMS are commonly found. Hop aroma low to none. Any variety of hops may be used, but neither hops nor malt dominate. Faint esters may be present in some examples, but are not required. No diacetyl."

This brew had no "sweet, corn-like aroma", if anything it smells like a corona!

Even though a cream ale doesnt have to have corn or rice, I have never had a cream ale or seen a recipe that omitted that ingredient.
If they have just called it an "Ale" I dont think I would have had as much of an issue.

3.3# LME (light)
2# DME (gold)
1oz Cascade (60 min boil)
.5 cascade (15 min boil)
.5 hallertau (15min boil)
Windsor Ale yeast