LHBS Going out of business

[McKenzieBrewer]

What am I going to do?
The Homebrew Den in Tallahassee is retiring.

 

[Amadeo38]

*insert smartass comment about a thing called internet homebrew supply shops*

But seriously - the co-host of Basic Brewing Radio had this situation happen in Arkansas and so he bought the LHBS and is now the owner. You busy?

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Bummer! My older son bought his home brewing starter kit from Homebrew Den when he went to FSU. I inherited that kit and have been brewing for 5 years now. Maybe I should retire and take over the shop.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

*insert smartass comment about a thing called internet homebrew supply shops*

But seriously - the co-host of Basic Brewing Radio had this situation happen in Arkansas and so he bought the LHBS and is now the owner. You busy?

Maybe the Hoggetowne Ale Works should take it over.

 

[MaxStout]

If they have a going-out-of-business sale, you might pick up some bargains.

 

[bronzdragon]

Sad to hear. The small shops are finding it hard to stay in business competing with the big national guys. The closest one to me just closed.

 

[Amadeo38]

Not sure if this is the norm, but my (aforementioned) LHBS’s goal is to simply break even each year. The owner only does it because he loves the hobby and knows he’s the only outfit in town. If it doesn’t cost him money, he’s okay with it since it’s a side venture for him.

 

[Morrey]

Sad to hear. The small shops are finding it hard to stay in business competing with the big national guys. The closest one to me just closed.

Agreed. I just noted Midwest Supplies is offering Free Shipping with any order. Typically (at least I figured) an online company will inflate the product prices to cover the free shipping. So I took a look at a few items including a 50# sack of 2 row only to find their price is the same as my closest LHBS. Said LHBS is an hour each way so that's 2 hours of my time, fuel and vehicle wear and tear. Plus the LHBS charges me 8% sales tax....if you are doing the math with me, its quite obvious I should simply click a button and let UPS roll my way.

Of course there are advantages to visiting the LHBS especially if the owner/workers are knowledgeable and can offer tips, recipes or brewing suggestions you wouldn't get online. I see both sides of the equation, but with lower prices online plus the convenience factor....kinda hard to argue against.

 

[beersk]

Well, I'm not surprised with the internet being so easy and convenient. I honestly don't know why people don't shop more online. I'm not saying that supporting local is bad. I'm seeing the same thing with my local shop, it's definitely circling the drain. And I can make some observations as to why:

The yeast is often not that fresh
The prices are astronomical
It's in a bad location

It's too bad, but what can you do?

 

[fizzix]

I'm lucky. My brew shop meets and often beats online prices.
He's getting ready to expand into his second storefront and since he's the only guy around, his business is booming.
He hosts a lot of brewing classes and gets people hooked on the hobby.
Hopefully this continues as I just don't like paying shipping.

 

[jdauria]

Luckily, my LHBS would most likely never close as they are part of a chain started 34 years ago, now with 3 locations in Mass and two in NY.

 

[Brewddah]

I wonder if stores in hot places are more likely to stay open...I say this because I live in a warm location, and wouldn't trust yeast or hops I ordered online not to suffer on the way here. I haven't seen signs of my LHBS going down the tubes. I certainly hope it doesn't. On Saturdays, there is often a line to the cash register.

 

[Morrey]

I wonder if stores in hot places are more likely to stay open...I say this because I live in a warm location, and wouldn't trust yeast or hops I ordered online not to suffer on the way here. I haven't seen signs of my LHBS going down the tubes. I certainly hope it doesn't. On Saturdays, there is often a line to the cash register.

BUT, think about this: The products your LHBS carries in inventory had to be shipped in to their store in the same heat you mention. I have actually had more liquid yeast failures (many more in reality) buying locally from the LHBS than from online sources. Places like MoreBeer make every effort to get your package delivered in 2 days, and if properly packaged with freeze packs, will arrive in good condition.

 

[shoengine]

I wonder if stores in hot places are more likely to stay open...I say this because I live in a warm location, and wouldn't trust yeast or hops I ordered online not to suffer on the way here. I haven't seen signs of my LHBS going down the tubes. I certainly hope it doesn't. On Saturdays, there is often a line to the cash register.

I wouldn't ever order liquid yeast online without a cold pack.

 

[Brewddah]

BUT, think about this: The products your LHBS carries in inventory had to be shipped in to their store in the same heat you mention. I have actually had more liquid yeast failures (many more in reality) buying locally from the LHBS than from online sources. Places like MoreBeer make every effort to get your package delivered in 2 days, and if properly packaged with freeze packs, will arrive in good condition.

That's true, but perhaps since they're buying in bulk, there's more thermal mass in the packages of yeast they receive. Whereas, I would probably get one pack at a time. They're also ready to receive deliveries to the store at anytime, while I am at work for most of the day. The yeast delivered to me would sit in the mailbox until I could get home.

 

[Morrey]

That's true, but perhaps since they're buying in bulk, there's more thermal mass in the packages of yeast they receive. Whereas, I would probably get one pack at a time. They're also ready to receive deliveries to the store at anytime, while I am at work for most of the day. The yeast delivered to me would sit in the mailbox until I could get home.

Good point!

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I agree with a lot of what was said. I like the idea of supporting a local business, but the prices have to be competitive. If I want to buy a 50 pound bag of grain, it's about $55 + tax to buy locally (so about $60 total). An online vendor can sell me the same bag of grain, and pay to ship it to me, for less money than the local shop.

For extract kits, I just bought 6 kits at Northern Brewer for $140. Most kits at my local shop are close to $40 and they don't come with yeast, so it's in the low-to-mid $40's with yeast. It's hard to justify buying local if the kits is $15+ more expensive.

 

[beernutz]

Drink local, buy local.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

We finally got a decent LHBS (Craft Beer Cartel) here in SoFla, which I use most of time for brewing. This is because I buy for each recipe rather in than bulk. Also, living in a really hot place, they do a great job of ordering and storing live yeast. I think this is because the owner is also a professional brewer. I have ordered live yeast online but that ice packet never seems particularly cold by the time it gets here.

 

[GPP33]

Damn, and my problem is I have TWO LHBS to choose from. The new guys seem to be idiots though.

I always buy local since the owner of LHBS #1 is a rad dude, if he was an hour drive away though i wouldnt consider him “local” and would probably buy online.

 

[aprichman]

Homebrewing seemed to have a big spike shortly after the Great Recession. DIY became much more fashionable as people looked to return "back to the basics".

It brought a lot of people into the hobby but now that a decade has gone by homebrewing is probably returning closer to baseline. In all honesty it's not a super easy hobby if you are looking to make beer that can go toe to toe with craft breweries. Those who are interested and dedicated to home brewing can accomplish this but let's be honest 80% of people probably never get there and give up before they get a handle on things.

Also a lot of LHBS are not great - I've heard stories of people getting outdated or downright bad advice. I'm lucky, Oregon has a thriving home brew scene. My town has a good LHBS that also sells bottles and draft beer. There's always people buying stuff when I stop by. They have good prices on grain and I can mill my grains there. They also let you buy a bags worth of base grain at $1 per pound and let you withdraw from that amount until you use it up.

If I wanted to drive an hour each way to Portland I could buy bags of grain for $35 but that would require a lot of time, gas, storage, and a mill.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Funny that you mention Oregon. My next door neighbor is moving to somewhere near Lebanon in two weeks and he's concerned that there is nowhere to buy brewing supplies. I told him with all the liberal hippies in Oregon, there must be 50 brew shops in every city. Probably one between every weed store and coffee shop.

 

[aprichman]

Lebanon is a small town. The closest LHBS is the one I go to and it's about a 40 minute drive. Lebanon is also very conservative - probably not too many hippies.

 

[kh54s10]

Agreed. I just noted Midwest Supplies is offering Free Shipping with any order. Typically (at least I figured) an online company will inflate the product prices to cover the free shipping. So I took a look at a few items including a 50# sack of 2 row only to find their price is the same as my closest LHBS. Said LHBS is an hour each way so that's 2 hours of my time, fuel and vehicle wear and tear. Plus the LHBS charges me 8% sales tax....if you are doing the math with me, its quite obvious I should simply click a button and let UPS roll my way.

I haven't looked at the current shipping but I would bet that free shipping does not include 50# sacks. So if that is the case I would bet that you cannot match the LHBS price even with the gas price added.

Last time I checked online. A sack of 2 row I wanted would have been $35. Shipping was something like $25 So now that sack costs $60.

My LHBS used to be 7 miles away so less than a gallon of gas and he charged me $40 for a total of about $43 OOPS forgot the $2.80 in tax so $45.80

My current LHBS is 36 miles away so 2.5 gallons of gas. My time, unless I was going to get paid for it, is worth exactly $0.00.

I haven't found anywhere online that you can buy a sack of grain cheaper that an LHBS.

 

[Morrey]

I haven't looked at the current shipping but I would bet that free shipping does not include 50# sacks. So if that is the case I would bet that you cannot match the LHBS price even with the gas price added.

Last time I checked online. A sack of 2 row I wanted would have been $35. Shipping was something like $25 So now that sack costs $60.

My LHBS used to be 7 miles away so less than a gallon of gas and he charged me $40 for a total of about $43 OOPS forgot the $2.80 in tax so $45.80

My current LHBS is 36 miles away so 2.5 gallons of gas. My time, unless I was going to get paid for it, is worth exactly $0.00.

I haven't found anywhere online that you can buy a sack of grain cheaper that an LHBS.

Yeah, I think much of what we see and deal with regarding LHBS is our individual geographic locations. Some of the bigger cities have more local accessibility but not always.

I went back to Midwest Supplies site and a 50# sack of Rahr 2 row is $54.99. Their website says Free Shipping, no exceptions so I dropped the grains into my cart. Sure enough it says this item qualifies for free shipping, so my total cost delivered is $54.99

I have seen widely varying reports of prices (like yours) with grain prices much lower than anything I have seen. This $55 sack of grain is very consistent in price with my nearest LHBS which is an hour drive one way. Again, I think this price is based on geographic location, but grain prices seem high in my area.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

Honestly I'll pay a little more from a LHBS, for grains yeast, sometimes hops. Only time I buy online is equipment online if my LHBS doesn't carry it. I don't know how many brew days I've forgotten something, something broke and I need to replace it. etc. Much easier to drive 3 minutes. Then wait an entire week or longer to be able to brew again.

 

[beersk]

Funny that you mention Oregon. My next door neighbor is moving to somewhere near Lebanon in two weeks and he's concerned that there is nowhere to buy brewing supplies. I told him with all the liberal hippies in Oregon, there must be 50 brew shops in every city. Probably one between every weed store and coffee shop.

You say that like it's a bad thing

To another's point, the prices HAVE to be competitive. Any smart consumer is also going to be discerning of price and quality. And I agree about many LBHS having bad/outdated brewing advice...seriously, you're a brewshop owner, you should be up on all the best knowledge, reading constantly, trying to improve. It's not the 90s anymore.

 

[aprichman]

Funny that you mention Oregon. My next door neighbor is moving to somewhere near Lebanon in two weeks and he's concerned that there is nowhere to buy brewing supplies. I told him with all the liberal hippies in Oregon, there must be 50 brew shops in every city. Probably one between every weed store and coffee shop.

Also let your neighbor know about Block 15 in Corvallis - they're pumping out some of the best IPAs on the West coast!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I'll let him know. I tried to tag him on this thread but I can't find his username.

 

[ba-brewer]

Agreed. I just noted Midwest Supplies is offering Free Shipping with any order. Typically (at least I figured) an online company will inflate the product prices to cover the free shipping. So I took a look at a few items including a 50# sack of 2 row only to find their price is the same as my closest LHBS. Said LHBS is an hour each way so that's 2 hours of my time, fuel and vehicle wear and tear. Plus the LHBS charges me 8% sales tax....if you are doing the math with me, its quite obvious I should simply click a button and let UPS roll my way.

Of course there are advantages to visiting the LHBS especially if the owner/workers are knowledgeable and can offer tips, recipes or brewing suggestions you wouldn't get online. I see both sides of the equation, but with lower prices online plus the convenience factor....kinda hard to argue against.

I looked at a few items on Midwest and northern brewer and the prices on Midwest are now higher, they used to be the same.