Letting it sit on the trub

[Omegagodly]

from what ive read in a lot of posts it seems that there is a significant number of people that let their beer sit in the primary for the length of time they primary, like 3-4 weeks etc. what i was wondering is that when you guys do that, i imagine you just dump everything in your boil kettle into your fermenting vessel. in my particular batch i did, it was a haus pale ale, with weight conversions for required acidity levels with my hops so i used about 1.32x the weight of hops in the recipe. what i noticed when i tasted the grav samples is that their is quite the notation of hoppiness in the flavor. i imagine that it will settle down with time, but is this the result of letting it sit on the hops in primary? do you guys rack the beer out minus the hops or just dump it all in, and do you notice more of a hoppy notation then with just racking the beer it minus the hops?

 

[Dynachrome]

I was wondering someting along this line too. I have never gone to secondary.

I have more than a couple friends that brew. One of them says you don't want to introduce air (oxygen) into the wort as it will oxidize and make the beer skunky. Dumping would introduce air. For secondarying.... Is there a better phrase? - Wouldnt you want to get rid of as much of the cloudy/hop crumby stuff as you could? I've been considering trying a secondary fermentation.

 

[joety]

do you guys rack the beer out minus the hops or just dump it all in, and do you notice more of a hoppy notation then with just racking the beer it minus the hops?

Dump it all. I don't notice any more hoppy notation. It doesn't replace dry hopping, even if hops added at flameout.

I have more than a couple friends that brew. One of them says you don't want to introduce air (oxygen) into the wort as it will oxidize and make the beer skunky. Dumping would introduce air. For secondarying.... Is there a better phrase? - Wouldnt you want to get rid of as much of the cloudy/hop crumby stuff as you could? I've been considering trying a secondary fermentation.

Oxidation occurs after fermentation is under way, not before. You are encouraged to oxygenate the wort as much as possible after cooling to help procreate healthy yeast. The crumbly stuff falls out of solution, no worries.

 

[HomerJR]

I don't think hops gunk left in the wort in the primary have much of an effect on the end brew. I don't have any science behind this notion, just the collective experience of homebrewers here and elsewhere. If it was a real problem, then it would have evolved into common practice to get rid of the gunk somehow. In reality, some either siphon or strain, and some just dump into the fermenter. So the likely answer is it probably doesn't make much difference.

I've started siphoning, using my racking cane and a stainless steel scrubby at the end of the cane, just to eliminate the hops gunk and make yeast harvesting somewhat easier.

Dynachrome, unless you're using dry yeast (and some say even if you are), you need to aerate the wort before you seal up the fermenter. The yeast need O2 to multiply, and boiling removes almost all the dissolved gases in the water. Dumping does indeed introduce air, which is why a lot of guys use it as a method of aerating.

Now, AFTER the fermentation starts, they're absolutely right, you don't want any more oxygen introduced into the brew.

And yes, a secondary is a nice way to eliminate a lot of the gunk and allow the beer to clear before bottling/kegging, but it's not absolutely necessary. I go straight from primary to bottling bucket, and just make sure I get as little gunk as possible into the bucket. Frankly, a little bit of yeast gunk won't hurt, and a small amount of hops gunk won't do much damage either.

 

[yodalegomaster]

Most of the brew book's say fermenting on the trub and hops add's about 10% to the IBU levels. I have never seen this in real life, I prefer to filter as much as possible out before fermentation I find that the yield loss to all trub and hops to be very frustrating.

 

[joety]

...I find that the yield loss to all trub and hops to be very frustrating.

After three weeks in primary it compacts rather nicely.

 

[Omegagodly]

After three weeks in primary it compacts rather nicely.

yes, it does get a good settle on the bottom, cleaning is snap.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I do it quite often. With a delicately flavored beer I would try to shy away from it but I really don't think it makes much of a difference either way. I consistently leave them on the trub for 3-4 weeks.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I ferment w/ the trub, hops, and wort right in the SS boil kettle. Mostly mid gravity ales. Ferment 10 - 14 days, cold crash and rack to keg. KISS

Maybe i'm lazy, but it works well. I also justify it as less chance of infection as you are merely leaving the wort in a "boil sanitized" kettle.

 

[brewagentjay]

I always use pellets...in hop bags so I get them out just after flame out....First batch I used pellets but didn't have a hop bag so I let it ride... when I transferred to the secondary I saw no hops move over so it must have settled to the bottom in that 1 1/2 inch stuff that makes your shoes smell like beer forever if you spill it on them when pitching it out of the primary......

 

[remilard]

If it was a real problem, then it would have evolved into common practice to get rid of the gunk somehow.

It is a common practice among those who make an effort to follow best practices (some homebrewers and every commercial brewer).

 

[HomerJR]

I wouldn't compare your average home brewery to a commercial brewery. There are lots of commercial "best practices" that don't necessarily translate well as best practices in homebrewing. The big example I can think of is getting your beer off the yeast as soon as possible -- you know, the old autolysis boogieman. Beer clarity is another example.

As far as the commercial guys go, clarity is a BIG issue for most of them. I like a nice clear beer myself (commercial or homebrew), but I'm certainly not going to complain if a homebrew I'm drinking is a little hazy, and so I'm not going to go to the great lengths that a commercial brewhouse goes to in order to achieve it. It works for them, but not for me.

Bottom line, the goals of commercial breweries are way different than the goals of a home brewer, and hence the "best practices" of each will be different. In fact, "best practices" will vary widely from one home brewer to another. Is the beer good? Yes? That's really all that matters.

 

[Synovia]

Most of the brew book's say fermenting on the trub and hops add's about 10% to the IBU levels. I have never seen this in real life, I prefer to filter as much as possible out before fermentation I find that the yield loss to all trub and hops to be very frustrating.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference between 40 and 44 IBU.

 

[OLDBREW]

this is funny..

If you listen to Jamil Zainasheff. , Kristen England or other brewers of that caliper. The first thing they talk about is getting the wort chilled quickly, using a whirlpool, then racking off the break materials before you start your fermentation.
Then you hear guys on here that I don't think have a Kinski award to their names or are master beer judges telling you to do the opposite. and that sitting wort on the trub for any length of time doesn't effect flavor.

You will also notice none ask anything about what yeast you are using, or what style you are brewing. It is just this thing that they truely believe that you can just dump everything from the brew pot into the fermenter and no matter what, your beer will come out great tasting.

Well Jamil and Kristen names are both in the BJCP and are known as very highly reguarded home brewers in the world of brewing and I'll bet you that both of those guys will tell you a different tale. Go to mr malty site and read Jamils article on the whirlpool chiller and the benefits of chilling quickly and him mentioning different styles.

If you want to become a really good brewer listen to the text books and not guys that have no clue of what they are talking about.

Just My 2 cents

 

[Synovia]

this is funny..

If you listen to Jamil Zainasheff. , Kristen England or other brewers of that caliper. The first thing they talk about is getting the wort chilled quickly, using a whirlpool, then racking off the break materials before you start your fermentation.
Then you hear guys on here that I don't think have a Kinski award to their names or are master bjudges telling you to do the opposite. and that sitting wort on the trub for any length of time doesn't effect flavor.

Baseball players tap the bat against their feet, tighten their gloves multiple times, throw dirt, etc. None of which actually affect how they hit the ball.


The fact that someone is good at something, and does it in a certain way, doesn't mean that way is the best way to do it, or even a good way to do it.

Jamil is a great brewer. That doesn't mean everything he does is the only way to do things, or the right way.

 

[OLDBREW]

Baseball players tap the bat against their feet, tighten their gloves multiple times, throw dirt, etc. None of which actually affect how they hit the ball.

Each of these things you mention can and do have positive effects on how they hit.
If their feet slip,the gloves move, or are slippery that can effect their performance. Not that every time they will have turf stuck in their spikes or their gloves aren't pulled tight or are sweaty but all can and do happen ...The same with brewing. If you take precautions against the things that can go wrong your percentage rises of achieving the Best possible outcome.

 

[Synovia]

Each of these things you mention can and do have positive effects on how they hit.
If their feet slip,the gloves move, or are slippery that can effect their performance. Not that every time they will have turf stuck in their spikes or their gloves aren't pulled tight or are sweaty but all can and do happen ...The same with brewing. If you take precautions against the things that can go wrong your percentage rises of achieving the Best possible outcome.

Okay, better example: athletes insist on having certain numbers.

The point still stands: just because someone does something, and has good results, that doesn't mean that particular act contributed to the good results.

 

[twoodward15]

I'll put my 2 cents in. I primary for 3 weeks then keg. I have a spigot on my boil kettle. I use a CFC. When I start the wort flowing, I let all the trub go into a separate container. When it is clear wort, I put my bucket under it to catch it. When I start drawing break material at the end of the chilling cycle I shut the valve. I only take the clear stuff and get very little trub in my bucket, then I pitch yeast on that. I harvest my yeast and it makes for a very clean cake on the bottom.

 

[shataway]

I noticed a difference:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/double-batch-results-158921/

 

[joety]

Yeah, I think you'll end up with similiar beers. I have noticed the same thing you decribe. Alot of the break material is in suspension towards the bottom. Once it all falls out , I bet you'll have similiar beers.

Was this the case?

 

[shataway]

JesseRC reply was based on keeping the hops separate on a second attempt.

For the batch with the hops, it did calm down quite a bit but was more hoppy than the one without. I plan on doing the exact same thing next batch.

 

[stevedasleeve]

this is funny..

If you listen to Jamil Zainasheff. , Kristen England or other brewers of that caliper. The first thing they talk about is getting the wort chilled quickly, using a whirlpool, then racking off the break materials before you start your fermentation.

This is partially, or maybe a bit more than partially, because all that material interferes with yeast harvesting. FWIW and YMMV and WTF,

Steve da sleeve

 

[joety]

JesseRC reply was based on keeping the hops separate on a second attempt.

For the batch with the hops, it did calm down quite a bit but was more hoppy than the one without. I plan on doing the exact same thing next batch.

I'm not sure about that. His post #2 before your second batch is mentioned in post #3 is:

Not sure how both would be that much different, same wort, same yeast?