Let's Partyyyy(gyle) that is!!!! Pumpkin Porter AND Ale from one mash!?!

[Saccharomyces]

And no I didn't re-adjust the hops to the gravities, that would be a little too anal for me. I figured since partigyle was done LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG before the "science" of brewing became so detailed and people even understood IBU's then I'd make it however it came out.

Plus, by now our hops are at least a year old so we are already 20% or more off because of hop age.

 

[Warped04]

Congrats Revvy! I think you have opened up a brewing technique to others and made it look easy!

 

[Revvy]

Plus, by now our hops are at least a year old so we are already 20% or more off because of hop age.

You're not going to believe it, but when I was getting my grain, I couldn't remember if I had fuggles in my freezer or not, so I asked for an ounce just in case...one of the guys at the shop thought they were out, but one of hte other guys remembered seeing a packet in the freezer in the back room and went to dig it out...It still had a pre-hop shortage price sticker on it...SO yeah, that packet was at least a year old...or at least pre-Christmas last year....I forgot what it was like to pay $1.30 for an ounce of hoppy goodness.

 

[hammacks]

Hey guys. Folowing Revvy's lead and doing a similar thing for my fall beer. I don't feel like doing a trip to the LHBS so I'm going with what I got. Do me a favor a look over this base please?

0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) 3.3 %
12.00 lb Pale Ale Malt (3.5 SRM) 80.0 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) 6.7 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 6.7 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) 3.3 %

OG: 1.069
24 SRM

That Pale Ale Malt is slightly kilned
Other things I have on hand:
Plenty of regular 2-row
.5 lb Vienna
another .25lb chocolate
3/4 lb 80L
more 60L
black patent
roasted barley

I was also considering steeping the porter portion just prior to boiling (this would be my first porter). For hopping I'm going all EKG for around 25-30 IBUs. I got -04 & -05 (No notty :-( ) and I could suck some Irish ale yeast out of the bottom of my aging Christmas ale. Was thinking 04 for both.


Suggestions?

 

[hammacks]

Hump de Bump

Planning on doing this tonight!

 

[hammacks]

One more bump before I start crushing. Here is the latest:
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 3.1 %
12.50 lb Pale Ale Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 78.1 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.7 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.7 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
Plus 60oz Pumpkin (in the mash)


I'm mainly trying to decide between S-05 and -04. I was thinking about mashing around 152 because I already have 1.5 lb crystals for unfermentables. I think I'll use -04 for the porter a little fruity esters and -05 for the amber.

 

[Revvy]

WOW....

I just cracked one of each of the the partigyles...first I did the second runnings, then I just cracked the heavier, darker, first runnings....

and WOW....

First off they aren't carbed fully yet but they're coming around...

The second running is a nice amber ale, with noticeable pumpkin and spices, though I personally think it could use more of each....

The first runnings is muy potent right now...there is still some alcohol bite to it, since it was a big beer. But man although I am not getting a lot of pumpkin and spice I am getting a lot of toffee, caramel, chocolate and even a hint of coffee...

Although really young, this reminds me of a bottle of Third Coast Old Ale that I had recently....I can't really call it a porter though...it is more like a dark, heavy amber ale, it seems even too light for a brown ale, except maybe at the bottom of the srm scale....I think I'm going to really really like this one, in a few more week...since these were only 1 case batches, I may have to just stick a few away for a long time..

I'll right up a more formal tasting notes when it carbs up...

If anyone's looking for a partigyle recipe for something interesting...even without the pumpkin, I would recommend trying this recipe...if anything for the first runnings...this is a damn fine strong beer...

In the last few sips, the spices came through a bit more..you could even consider adding the spices, but leaving out the pumpkin...

EditI just realized what's missing, and what noone caught...there's no carapils in the grainbill for head retention...damn...Oh well.....

 

[Joe Camel]

Hey Revvy,

Glad to hear that your partigyle beers turned out nice, this is something I intend to do next spring when the weather warms up.
One thing I've found in my research that might help you in the future with your recipes in Beersmith, instead of making "virtual" recipes for each running by using 60% and 40% of the grainbill, try this:

1. Make your 6 gallon recipe for grainbill and mash calculations.
2. Make two duplicates of this recipe, open the first duplicate, which is to be your first runnings. Drop the batch size to 3 gallons but don't change the grainbill, instead multiply your typical brewhouse efficiency by 60% and enter that number into the brewhouse efficiency box. ie. if you currently get 80% efficiency, enter 48% into your brewhouse efficiency box (0.8 * 0.6).
3. Rename the recipe and save as 1st runnings. Then you can enter your hop bill.
4. Repeat with the second duplicate except multiply your typical Brewhouse efficiency by 40% and update the value for your second runnings recipe.
Apparently this method is good for the gravity calcs, but is a bit off on the colour calculation.

Cheers,

Joe

 

[Revvy]

Hey Revvy,

Glad to hear that your partigyle beers turned out nice, this is something I intend to do next spring when the weather warms up.
One thing I've found in my research that might help you in the future with your recipes in Beersmith, instead of making "virtual" recipes for each running by using 60% and 40% of the grainbill, try this:

1. Make your 6 gallon recipe for grainbill and mash calculations.
2. Make two duplicates of this recipe, open the first duplicate, which is to be your first runnings. Drop the batch size to 3 gallons but don't change the grainbill, instead multiply your typical brewhouse efficiency by 60% and enter that number into the brewhouse efficiency box. ie. if you currently get 80% efficiency, enter 48% into your brewhouse efficiency box (0.8 * 0.6).
3. Rename the recipe and save as 1st runnings. Then you can enter your hop bill.
4. Repeat with the second duplicate except multiply your typical Brewhouse efficiency by 40% and update the value for your second runnings recipe.
Apparently this method is good for the gravity calcs, but is a bit off on the colour calculation.

Cheers,

Joe

So where the hell were you when warped and I had to figure out how to do the maths ourself??? Seriously though thanks for the tip...your way seems MUCH easier!!!!

 

[Warped04]

So where the hell were you when warped and I had to figure out how to do the maths ourself??? Seriously though thanks for the tip...your way seems MUCH easier!!!!

Yeah, no kidding... Better late than never.

 

[Revvy]

Last week I poured the last of my Partigyle pumpkin Porters...Brewed on Labor Day, bottled 1 month later...First ones cracked on Halloween still green but carbed, so we drank a six whilst giving out candy...Left the rest alone til turkey day, and my family loved them, and I've drank a few now and then...But this one sat...until now, bottled on October first...Consumed 3 months later...

When it was green, even though it was carbed, you got a hot alcohol burn, and a really funky sourness from the pumpkin in the back of the throat..and way too much spice, especially the clove....Not undrinkable, but far from wonderful,

The last one was amazing, and sublime; the pumpkin and spice are nicely balanced, somewhat tart against a backbone of a deep rich burnt caramel and toffee note, with even a black coffee hint coming through. Nothing overwhelms, instead they meld together seamlessly.

There's a nice blend of both carbonation and a lingering mouth feel, and a deliciously seductive nose of toffee and cloves.

I would without hesitation pay 9 bucks for a 22 of this if it had the name Rogue, or Stone on it....and it kicked the ass of any pumpkin ales in the stores last October. This beer right now is at it's peak....and it was the last one.

Oh well...

I think I will brew this one again without the pumpkin...they were really nice strong ales. ANd probably next summer I'll brew this again for next Halloween, only not a splt 5 gallon batch but a 10 gallon batch split in half.

 

[Warped04]

So are you giving up on party-gyle style of brewing or just not for this beer in general?

 

[Revvy]

So are you giving up on party-gyle style of brewing or just not for this beer in general?

No, I said in my last post that I would try it both ways..I'd do a batch without the pumpkin and spices (another split batch) and next year try this again only doing 5 gallons of each....

It's fun....and damn it tasted good...

You know, I may want to plan the pumbkin brew for early summer...and let it have nearly 6 months to mellow and age...

But that would be really really organized on my part...and I'm not that good...

oooh...maybe I'll do this at Yooper's brewcamp this summer...THat way I'll have help..and I can do this as a demo....

WoW!

 

[LakeErieBrew]

Wow, this is a cool thread. I'm going to put a party-gyle on the "things to brew" list.

 

[Revvy]

Wow, this is a cool thread. I'm going to put a party-gyle on the "things to brew" list.

Thanks! There's a lot of threads on here about it...But I think mines less "technical" than some of the other ones, and since it happened in "real time" you can see how I absolutely had no clue how to get my math deficient head around it....and through the discussion and playing around I suddenly got it.

With a lot of hand holding from my friends!!!

This is sort of the idiot's guide to partiguile thread created by one.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Looks good Revvy. I think I'll be ready to to try this come this summer and will steal, I mean borrow your recipe and what not.
Although I may just do 5G of each. assuming my MashTun will handle the bill. I'll have to go back and look at the final recipe.

hmm 13.5 lbs for a overall 5G batch. I had a grain of of 20lbs last weekend and I don't know if I could fit another 7lbs plus 8.75G of water in there.

 

[Revvy]

Looks good Revvy. I think I'll be ready to to try this come this summer and will steal, I mean borrow your recipe and what not.
Although I may just do 5G of each. assuming my MashTun will handle the bill. I'll have to go back and look at the final recipe.

Thanks, just remember when you come back to it and start playing with numbers this is for two- 2.5 gallon batches, so everything's doubled in regular size batches.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Thanks, just remember when you come back to it and start playing with numbers this is for two- 2.5 gallon batches, so everything's doubled in regular size batches.

Yeah, i think I'll have to do the 2 2.5 G batches due to the grain Bill.

 

[sully]

i recently did a parti gyle a triple at 1.080 and a honey ale with 3 lbs of orange blossom honey at 1.070, i did not check the gravity of the smaller ale before i added the honey but all the numbers were hit on the triple and i figured at least it would be 1.045 before the honey, the brew day was awesome! the mash tun was maxed out and thick. i sparged the sh!t out of it for a good 45 min. the triple is still fermenting slowly two weeks later, the honey ale is still going as well. the following weekend i brewed a big brown at 1.066 and this sunday i will transfer the brown to secondary and put a huge porter maybe at 1.100 on the wlp bedford british ale yeast cake. i will steep the dark and roasted grains in the keggle and do a hopefully 1.057 lager with cascade hops and wlp 802 budofjovice. i am excited and wanted to post!

 

[Revvy]

i recently did a parti gyle a triple at 1.080 and a honey ale with 3 lbs of orange blossom honey at 1.070, i did not check the gravity of the smaller ale before i added the honey but all the numbers were hit on the triple and i figured at least it would be 1.045 before the honey, the brew day was awesome! the mash tun was maxed out and thick. i sparged the sh!t out of it for a good 45 min. the triple is still fermenting slowly two weeks later, the honey ale is still going as well. the following weekend i brewed a big brown at 1.066 and this sunday i will transfer the brown to secondary and put a huge porter maybe at 1.100 on the wlp bedford british ale yeast cake. i will steep the dark and roasted grains in the keggle and do a hopefully 1.057 lager with cascade hops and wlp 802 budofjovice. i am excited and wanted to post!

Ain't partigyling fun?!?!?!

I've got to add another to my to brew list...

 

[sully]

it has got me re inspired to brew again like the day one feeling. i just want to brew and learn and also drink 2 styles. ill have to try your pumpkin ale next fall. i think im gonna fork out membership soon i want in on all those great swaps and epic brew challenges, some of the 999 recipes are just insane.

 

[McCuckerson]

oohh...maybe I'll do this at Yooper's brewcamp this summer...THat way I'll have help..and I can do this as a demo....

WoW!

Yoop has a brewcamp..... FTW, how do I get in on this?!?!?!!?!?!?

 

[Revvy]

OH MY GOD...I just found a bottle of this in one of my cubby holes beer storage places in my loft.

It is amazing!!!!!!!

I can't believe how great this beer is. It's what every pumpkin beer I ever tried and was disapointed with should be. It has a quarter inch light caramel/tan head, lots of lacing on the glass. It has a surprising definite pumpkin and spice taste, cut with a dark caramel/molasses toffee note to it. It has a pronounced bitterness, not from hops but a roasty coffee bite to it. It's got no hop aroma, but instead has a burnt sugar chocolate and coffee smell.

All in all this is one of the best beers I ever made. I really wish I had more of this. I guess I may have to brew this in the late summer for fall.

I'm blown away.

Dayum!!!!!

 

[h22lude]

OH MY GOD...I just found a bottle of this in one of my cubby holes beer storage places in my loft.

It is amazing!!!!!!!

I can't believe how great this beer is. It's what every pumpkin beer I ever tried and was disapointed with should be. It has a quarter inch light caramel/tan head, lots of lacing on the glass. It has a surprising definite pumpkin and spice taste, cut with a dark caramel/molasses toffee note to it. It has a pronounced bitterness, not from hops but a roasty coffee bite to it. It's got no hop aroma, but instead has a burnt sugar chocolate and coffee smell.

All in all this is one of the best beers I ever made. I really wish I had more of this. I guess I may have to brew this in the late summer for fall.

I'm blown away.

Dayum!!!!!

Awesome!!! I wouldn't say pumpkin beer is my top favorite but it is top 3 and something I look forward to all year.

What did you like better, the ale or the porter? I'm just getting into AG and don't know if I want to mess around with partigyle brewing. I did something similar with extract by making a golden ale and turning half of that into blueberry but with an extract, I just took half of the golden ale and added blueberry to it. I don't know how easy it is for AG.

So long story short, I would probably try to convert your recipe into either all porter or all ale.

I don't know if they distribute nationally but have you had Post Road Pumpkin Ale? I had dinner at their brew pub in Maine. When you order a pint of it, they coat the rim with sugar, cinnamon and nutmeg. My gf isn't a huge beer lover and she loved that beer.

 

[Revvy]

I think originally I liked the ale. But now with mellowing I LOOOOOVE the porter.

 

[Warped04]

I think originally I liked the ale. But now with mellowing I LOOOOOVE the porter.

Wow...I can't believe you have some of this kicking around still. That's crazy. Good thing you documented everything so you can repeat it

 

[HItransplant]

Pumpkin Porter
(First Runnings)

Calculated as 60% of the original grainbill

2.5 gallon batch

(equivalent to)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5 lbs 6.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
11.8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
11.8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

(Hops)
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(Pumpkin/Spices)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.90 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 30.1 SRM

hey revvy..
I'm thinking of trying a batch of your pumpkin porter and was hoping for a quick bit of guidance.

I don't want to do a partigyle... Just the porter.

So, what I'm thinking, is to take your "estimate" recipe, and scale to my batch size.
My question...Is this "estimate" based off 60% efficiency?

If so, I'd have to scale for batch size and efficiency...correct?

Also, looking back do you have any things you would change?

Thanks!!

 

[Revvy]

No the recipe in total was written with a base of 75% efficiency which is what my Beersmith is set for.

The 60% above comes from the idea that in all grain your first runnings contribute 60% to the overall OG of your beer, and second runnings provide 40%.

The only difference is that in pratyguilling we don't combine runnings, we make two beers from them.

So what I did originally was create a recipe and then for the break down recipes just calculated what a grain bill based on 60% and 40% would be.

So that recipe above is really an "as is" recipe for a 2.5 gallon batch of just the porter. Treat that like any other recipe nd if you are making a 5 gallon batch double it.

I don't think there's anything I would change, I can't recall specifics but it was a pretty tasty recipe.

Best of luck. Keep me posted.

 

[HItransplant]

No the recipe in total was written with a base of 75% efficiency which is what my Beersmith is set for.

The 60% above comes from the idea that in all grain your first runnings contribute 60% to the overall OG of your beer, and second runnings provide 40%.

The only difference is that in pratyguilling we don't combine runnings, we make two beers from them.

So what I did originally was create a recipe and then for the break down recipes just calculated what a grain bill based on 60% and 40% would be.

So that recipe above is really an "as is" recipe for a 2.5 gallon batch of just the porter. Treat that like any other recipe nd if you are making a 5 gallon batch double it.

I don't think there's anything I would change, I can't recall specifics but it was a pretty tasty recipe.

Best of luck. Keep me posted.

I'm somewhat familiar w partigyle...at least the general process. Recipe formulation is still not firmly established in my head...hence the confusion.


So if I use your 60% estimate grainbill with a sparge I'll get 100% of the original 75% efficiency?

Or, should I use the main base recipe--marked "original" in your post?

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Revvy]

I'm somewhat familiar w partigyle...at least the general process. Recipe formulation is still not firmly established in my head...hence the confusion.


So if I use your 60% estimate grainbill with a sparge I'll get 100% of the original 75% efficiency?

Or, should I use the main base recipe--marked "original" in your post?

Thanks for the help!!

Yeah, you treat this recipe as a normal recipe.