Less Expensive Can Seamer

[MaCheFai]

Sorry I wasn’t clear. If some one has a different source for cans, I could see if it fits. I don’t have any commercial beers in 16.9 to see if they fit.

Regular 16oz cans are too short. You'd need to adjust the bottom chuck in oder for them to reach the top rollers.

 

[Wayne1]

Just saw this counter pressure can filler on another site

It looks to be a prototype from KegKing of Australia to be used with forward sealing faucets.
I would love to find out more information about it.

 

[MaCheFai]

Just saw this counter pressure can filler on another site

It looks to be a prototype from KegKing of Australia to be used with forward sealing faucets.
I would love to find out more information about it.

Okaaaay, but how do you seal the can though? And even with the counter pressure piece, the trick would be, being able to apply enough pressure to seal it enough based on the back pressure without squishing an empty aluminum can.

 

[Wayne1]

You will still need a can seamer, like the Cannular.
I just heard from KegKing:

We're looking into the filler accessory for the Tapcooler counter pressure bottle filler that turns it into a counter pressure can filler. It has a transparent can seal so users can watch the filling through the seal. There's A clamp handling the force from the large can opening, about 20 kg with one bar pressure. A great companion to any can sealer.
We are looking at, earliest, middle of September for having some.

 

[Wayne1]

Here is some more information from Tapcooler:

It's a can filler accessory to our counter pressure bottle filler, see https://tapcooler.com/en/accessorie...e-filler-for-vent-matic-perlick-intertap-p-16.
We got a request for a can seal for the bottle filler on the Norwegian home brewers forum, so we have made the seal and a stand with a quick clamp. The force on the 52 mm can seal makes hand-held counter pressure filling difficult, so the clamping solution is a must. It will also include a table clamp for the stand. The can filler accessory will be available in the middle of September. We will post information about the product on our site in a few days.


The liquid connection for the counter pressure filling is either a push in for Perlick/Intertap/Ultratap or a threaded connector for Intertap. We are also making a ball lock keg connector with a valve.

The CO2 connection is by a 3/16” push-fit connector, through a barb adaptor for 4-7 mm ID tubes or by the optional ball lock adaptor (which was also made on request from Norwegian home brewers).


Distribution in Australia and NZ is through Keg King. North America is currently served from Norway, but this is subject to change.

 

[MaCheFai]

You will still need a can seamer, like the Cannular.
I just heard from KegKing:

We're looking into the filler accessory for the Tapcooler counter pressure bottle filler that turns it into a counter pressure can filler. It has a transparent can seal so users can watch the filling through the seal. There's A clamp handling the force from the large can opening, about 20 kg with one bar pressure. A great companion to any can sealer.
We are looking at, earliest, middle of September for having some.

I feel like I don't understand the need though. You just don't have the same foaming issues with cans as you do with bottles due to the bottleneck shape vs a wide opening. I was using a couple of cheap bottling wands pretty effectively, one for co2 and the other for filling. I recently moved to a beergun which rocks, along w/ the cannular. And they actually recommend canning on foam to help with O2.

Even if it's just an accessory for those who already own their bottle filler, I feel like you'd be perfectly fine just turning down the co2 and using the wand without this pressure lid.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I'd love a canner but it just seems so expensive compared to bottling. Hopefully in the future the cans can get down to a more reasonable price. I just can't bring myself to paying more for the container holding the beer than the actual beer itself. Especially since you can't reused them. Not hating just wishing it wasn't such a expensive upgrade. Cheers

 

[MaCheFai]

I'd love a canner but it just seems so expensive compared to bottling. Hopefully in the future the cans can get down to a more reasonable price. I just can't bring myself to paying more for the container holding the beer than the actual beer itself. Especially since you can't reused them. Not hating just wishing it wasn't such a expensive upgrade. Cheers

Although I agree with you, once the cannular came stateside, our little beer group went ahead and pulled the trigger. It was easier for us to justify the cost when we spread it out. We found the convenience really outweighs the added $0.42 per can cost. And since we were coming from 32oz growlers, it made sharing with friends as easy(if not easier) as bottles too. We've really enjoyed it so far.

 

[chupalt]

Has anyone else had a hard time setting up the cannular can seamer? Mine was nowhere near correct when I received it. It was almost like the dies were setup opposite out of the box (operation 1 setup with operation 2 gaps and vice versa). It super hard to get a feeler gauge in the y gaps, so I 3d printed custom feeler gauges and was able to successfully seal cans, but still one out of 3 or so still has minor leaks. I've cut the cans to verify I have what appears to be the proper overlap and measured the outside with calipers according to the documentation. Super frustrating to spend $500 dollars and only have 60% success rate on the can sealing. At this point I'm not sure if it's a gap problem (seem correct per the manual) or too little or too much pressure applied on the manual operations. At this point I wish I would have spent $1000 on the oktober sl1. Still hoping I get it all dialed in

 

[chupalt]

Regular 16oz cans are too short. You'd need to adjust the bottom chuck in oder for them to reach the top rollers.

I'm almost 100% certain that the top of the cans are standard and that cans from other sources (i.e. ebay) will work with the chuck on the cannular. There should be enough adjustment in the bottom chuck to accommodate regular 16 ounce cans. I think the comment in the video overview regarding a lathe was focused on the spacer for the bottom chuck. Williams brewing sells the spacer for 12 ounce cans as well.

I also think I may have finally got my machine dialed. I did a few water cans after adjusting with feeler gauges again. 2 out of 3 cans leaked. Then I measured the seam thickness with some calipers and they were around 1.4mm. I put them back in the machine and applied a little more pressure during operation 2 and all 3 cans are sealed up perfect. Hopefully it was all related to not enough pressure during operation 2.

 

[HaySed]

Hello everyone. I also got the cannular but have not had a chance to use it yet. However I found this video on how to set it up and it does mention that its adjustable to use other company cans. I hope it helps.

Cannular Machine Setup - How to adjust

 

[Bobbybob]

After some adjusting I have some how gotten my seamer to seal nearly every time. This video would have been helpful.

 

[davidabcd]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

 

[grampamark]

“...nearly every time”.

I learned to fly. I can land the airplane safely nearly every time. Anybody wanna go for a ride?

 

[khannon]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

At least in the US, I keep hearing about how much more environmentally friendly aluminum cans are. I hear they are "infinitely recyclable","lighter, so the carbon footprint in less when shipped", and so on..
At a home-brew level, glass is almost "infinitely reusable" which from an energy perspective reuse is "infinitely" better. Add to that if you look at the total life cycle of aluminum, the process of bauxite mining and converting that to aluminum is incredibly intensive. Properly recycled the total impact goes down substantially, but still greatly exceeds the impact of re-use.

I get that you can take it to the beach, it being a cost savings to commercial breweries, and so on, but from an environmental impact, and probably a home-brewer's cost perspective glass bottles are where it's at.

This being said, aluminum and glass are both head and shoulders above plastic in environmental impact.
On the note of plastics, it is worth noting that all FDA approved aluminum cans for beverages contain a plastic lining that contains BPA, so here in the US you cannot get BPA free cans.

 

[mongoose33]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US, so they're not filling a landfill.

There are other reasons, IMO, to question a can seamer; just the cost of the can is, IMO, ridiculous. In some cases the cost of the can exceeds the cost of the beer inside the can.

This is why I started the other thread on plastic brown bottles which would be a nice substitute for glass bottles if you're taking beer to a place that doesn't allow glass. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/brown-plastic-beer-bottles.669978/#post-8674720

 

[davidabcd]

head and shoulders above plastic in environmental impact

Thanks for the post.
I'd assume that the cans bought for home use contain BPA too? I wonder how that's separated.
Bottles used to be reused by breweries long ago, if I'm not mistaken, but it was unsafe/dangerous or something like that. Maybe it's time to revisit that issue with a little R&D.
My spouse and I avoid plastic as much as we can though it is the definition of ubiquitous. The best we're able to do is bring what plastics we do use to the recycle center. We have curbside recycling and I wouldn't be surprised, sadly, if some/most/all of the "recycling" finds its way into the same landfill as regular trash.

 

[khannon]

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US, so they're not filling a landfill.

I don't think that's entirely true.. the numbers I see for the US are pretty low. though they are hard to find.
https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2017/11/14/aluminum-can-recycling-falls-significantly/ as 2016 #s
https://www.aluminum.org/industries/production/recycling states that Americans throw away $700 million dollars worth of cans every year.. not sure what % that is
Both websites put the rate between 49-67%

Again, I'm only arguing this from a home brew perspective, and not trying to derail the thread with environmental bent, but I think that it is worth considering the whole life-cycle of a product when we think about the cost of something.

 

[davidabcd]

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US

I would love for that to be the case but a quick search of the most recent data I could find doesn't bear that out and it's more likely around 50% for consumer cans. Since it's always about money, unfortunately, and not just doing the right thing, I don't see the percentage ever getting as high as we'd like to imagine or is implied by those with vested interests unless, for example, the price of aluminum skyrockets.

I'm right there with you on the seamer and can outlay. I don't often get below a dollar per beer (extract and lots of it) but adding $18 to each batch is something I won't do on principle.

plastic brown bottles which would be a nice substitute for glass

A good solution to a bad situation. If some people weren't such idiots, glass would never have been banned from venues in the first place. The common, knee-jerk reactions to a few idiots needs to be better thought out. Kind of reminds me of the aspirin fiasco ages ago that caused every product to have a safety label.

 

[mengel]

After some adjusting I have some how gotten my seamer to seal nearly every time. This video would have been helpful.

Finally opened my canner and am looking forward to using it with homebrew club members. Are you using the stock power supply or something else?

 

[Bobbybob]

Yes the stock power supply works fine. I thought about using the clips but decided against it.

 

[micraftbeer]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

 

[Bobbybob]

My taps are flow control and pretty dialed in, and can get nearly no foam and a full can. I recommend very little foam until the last half inch and then you need to let it rise a bit. Cap on the foam.

 

[kh54s10]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

Cold bottles or cans would help reduce foaming and allow fuller fills. I put my bottles in the freezer at least a few hours prior to filling. I use just a tube inserted in the faucet.

 

[Wayne1]

 

[MaCheFai]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

Keep your keg cold, under 40 degrees. Set your co2 to 5-8 psi, pull the PRV on the keg to balance out the pressure and have a glass ready to fill/purge your beergun line. For your first can it should only take about 4-6 oz to balance out the line, the rest should all go smoothly. I've packaged up numerous cases now without any foaming issues. I purge the can w/ co2 for 10 seconds, then switch to beer. I have a lid ready, I cap on foam, and even a 2 month old NEIPA's has held up really well!

If when using these methods you're still having foaming issues, I would clean and sanitize your lines, check your keg connections for leaks or plugged poppets. And don't forget to clean your gun after each use.

 

[micraftbeer]

Do you usually let the foam overflow the can? As I'm filling the can, I get foam on top, and placing the lid on, there is a small amount of foam that comes out. But I'm wondering if I should be filling it even more, to the point that I have foam running down the sides before I put the lid on. I'd obviously waste some beer in that process, and have to fill the cans over a bowl, etc.

The other downside is I'd have more beer on the outside of the can to go flinging off in all directions as I spin it up...

 

[MaCheFai]

Do you usually let the foam overflow the can? As I'm filling the can, I get foam on top, and placing the lid on, there is a small amount of foam that comes out. But I'm wondering if I should be filling it even more, to the point that I have foam running down the sides before I put the lid on. I'd obviously waste some beer in that process, and have to fill the cans over a bowl, etc.

The other downside is I'd have more beer on the outside of the can to go flinging off in all directions as I spin it up...

I have about an 1/8-1/4" of foam as it approaches the top of the can. I pull off the trigger when the head is just about to crest the edges of the can, being sure to stop right before. When I add the lid, the foam is displaced, and pours down the side, but no actual beer is lost.

If you have so much foam that it's pouring down the side and you're not seeing beer, then you have a problem elsewhere. Aside from the previous best practices I mentioned above, you may also want to consider how much you're carbing your beer and that you don't have an infection. And are you using the same line provided by the beer gun? Length and ID matters.

 

[Wayne1]

Here is the latest video from TapCooler. This system was shown at BrauBeviale in Germany last week.



They believe it can be produced for around $500.00

It can also be used to counter pressure fill bottles

 

[day_trippr]

I'm seeing a lot of head space once the filler is removed and the cap placed.
Is there enough CO2 from purging to keep that from being a shelf life problem?

Cheers!