Less Expensive Can Seamer

[HaySed]

Hello everyone. I also got the cannular but have not had a chance to use it yet. However I found this video on how to set it up and it does mention that its adjustable to use other company cans. I hope it helps.

Cannular Machine Setup - How to adjust

 

[Bobbybob]

After some adjusting I have some how gotten my seamer to seal nearly every time. This video would have been helpful.

 

[davidabcd]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

 

[grampamark]

“...nearly every time”.

I learned to fly. I can land the airplane safely nearly every time. Anybody wanna go for a ride?

 

[khannon]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

At least in the US, I keep hearing about how much more environmentally friendly aluminum cans are. I hear they are "infinitely recyclable","lighter, so the carbon footprint in less when shipped", and so on..
At a home-brew level, glass is almost "infinitely reusable" which from an energy perspective reuse is "infinitely" better. Add to that if you look at the total life cycle of aluminum, the process of bauxite mining and converting that to aluminum is incredibly intensive. Properly recycled the total impact goes down substantially, but still greatly exceeds the impact of re-use.

I get that you can take it to the beach, it being a cost savings to commercial breweries, and so on, but from an environmental impact, and probably a home-brewer's cost perspective glass bottles are where it's at.

This being said, aluminum and glass are both head and shoulders above plastic in environmental impact.
On the note of plastics, it is worth noting that all FDA approved aluminum cans for beverages contain a plastic lining that contains BPA, so here in the US you cannot get BPA free cans.

 

[mongoose33]

I read the entire thread and the novelty of it seems fun but what is the upside? Just the novelty of it? It's not cost-effective by any means for an individual and groups still need to buy their own cans. It's creating yet another item that needs to be recycled in a society that recycles poorly and isn't well-prepared to properly recycle anyway so more landfill? Basically, it seems highly unnecessary and wasteful, at least on the surface. I could be wrong as this is new to me. Maybe there multiple and clear advantages over bottles? Just trying to get a handle on this subject.

The way I see it, my Grolsch bottles have been in rotation for at least 15 years with just replacing the gaskets on occasion, so pretty much for free and kept out of the trash. They're easy to use as I can fill with one hand and close with the other. I do have to keep them in the dark but that's not really a problem.

Thank you and interested in a response.

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US, so they're not filling a landfill.

There are other reasons, IMO, to question a can seamer; just the cost of the can is, IMO, ridiculous. In some cases the cost of the can exceeds the cost of the beer inside the can.

This is why I started the other thread on plastic brown bottles which would be a nice substitute for glass bottles if you're taking beer to a place that doesn't allow glass. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/brown-plastic-beer-bottles.669978/#post-8674720

 

[davidabcd]

head and shoulders above plastic in environmental impact

Thanks for the post.
I'd assume that the cans bought for home use contain BPA too? I wonder how that's separated.
Bottles used to be reused by breweries long ago, if I'm not mistaken, but it was unsafe/dangerous or something like that. Maybe it's time to revisit that issue with a little R&D.
My spouse and I avoid plastic as much as we can though it is the definition of ubiquitous. The best we're able to do is bring what plastics we do use to the recycle center. We have curbside recycling and I wouldn't be surprised, sadly, if some/most/all of the "recycling" finds its way into the same landfill as regular trash.

 

[khannon]

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US, so they're not filling a landfill.

I don't think that's entirely true.. the numbers I see for the US are pretty low. though they are hard to find.
https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2017/11/14/aluminum-can-recycling-falls-significantly/ as 2016 #s
https://www.aluminum.org/industries/production/recycling states that Americans throw away $700 million dollars worth of cans every year.. not sure what % that is
Both websites put the rate between 49-67%

Again, I'm only arguing this from a home brew perspective, and not trying to derail the thread with environmental bent, but I think that it is worth considering the whole life-cycle of a product when we think about the cost of something.

 

[davidabcd]

Aluminum cans are almost always recycled in the US

I would love for that to be the case but a quick search of the most recent data I could find doesn't bear that out and it's more likely around 50% for consumer cans. Since it's always about money, unfortunately, and not just doing the right thing, I don't see the percentage ever getting as high as we'd like to imagine or is implied by those with vested interests unless, for example, the price of aluminum skyrockets.

I'm right there with you on the seamer and can outlay. I don't often get below a dollar per beer (extract and lots of it) but adding $18 to each batch is something I won't do on principle.

plastic brown bottles which would be a nice substitute for glass

A good solution to a bad situation. If some people weren't such idiots, glass would never have been banned from venues in the first place. The common, knee-jerk reactions to a few idiots needs to be better thought out. Kind of reminds me of the aspirin fiasco ages ago that caused every product to have a safety label.

 

[mengel]

After some adjusting I have some how gotten my seamer to seal nearly every time. This video would have been helpful.

Finally opened my canner and am looking forward to using it with homebrew club members. Are you using the stock power supply or something else?

 

[Bobbybob]

Yes the stock power supply works fine. I thought about using the clips but decided against it.

 

[micraftbeer]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

 

[Bobbybob]

My taps are flow control and pretty dialed in, and can get nearly no foam and a full can. I recommend very little foam until the last half inch and then you need to let it rise a bit. Cap on the foam.

 

[kh54s10]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

Cold bottles or cans would help reduce foaming and allow fuller fills. I put my bottles in the freezer at least a few hours prior to filling. I use just a tube inserted in the faucet.

 

[Wayne1]

 

[MaCheFai]

Any canning tips? I'm just using a Blichmann Beer Gun. My first run didn't work out so well as I was just feeding the keg the same 9-10 psi I keep it on in my keezer. I got a lot of foaming. This was not a "canning phenomenna" as I also bottled a few at the same time just to refresh my memory and so I could have a true comparison of the process. In both the bottles and cans I only got 8-10 ounces in them.

After a brush-up on my Beer Gun directions, I will do my next run around ~3 psi pressure on the keg. But looking to benefit from anyone else's experience if there are other good tips/tricks you've found to canning success.

Thanks.

Keep your keg cold, under 40 degrees. Set your co2 to 5-8 psi, pull the PRV on the keg to balance out the pressure and have a glass ready to fill/purge your beergun line. For your first can it should only take about 4-6 oz to balance out the line, the rest should all go smoothly. I've packaged up numerous cases now without any foaming issues. I purge the can w/ co2 for 10 seconds, then switch to beer. I have a lid ready, I cap on foam, and even a 2 month old NEIPA's has held up really well!

If when using these methods you're still having foaming issues, I would clean and sanitize your lines, check your keg connections for leaks or plugged poppets. And don't forget to clean your gun after each use.

 

[micraftbeer]

Do you usually let the foam overflow the can? As I'm filling the can, I get foam on top, and placing the lid on, there is a small amount of foam that comes out. But I'm wondering if I should be filling it even more, to the point that I have foam running down the sides before I put the lid on. I'd obviously waste some beer in that process, and have to fill the cans over a bowl, etc.

The other downside is I'd have more beer on the outside of the can to go flinging off in all directions as I spin it up...

 

[MaCheFai]

Do you usually let the foam overflow the can? As I'm filling the can, I get foam on top, and placing the lid on, there is a small amount of foam that comes out. But I'm wondering if I should be filling it even more, to the point that I have foam running down the sides before I put the lid on. I'd obviously waste some beer in that process, and have to fill the cans over a bowl, etc.

The other downside is I'd have more beer on the outside of the can to go flinging off in all directions as I spin it up...

I have about an 1/8-1/4" of foam as it approaches the top of the can. I pull off the trigger when the head is just about to crest the edges of the can, being sure to stop right before. When I add the lid, the foam is displaced, and pours down the side, but no actual beer is lost.

If you have so much foam that it's pouring down the side and you're not seeing beer, then you have a problem elsewhere. Aside from the previous best practices I mentioned above, you may also want to consider how much you're carbing your beer and that you don't have an infection. And are you using the same line provided by the beer gun? Length and ID matters.

 

[Wayne1]

Here is the latest video from TapCooler. This system was shown at BrauBeviale in Germany last week.



They believe it can be produced for around $500.00

It can also be used to counter pressure fill bottles

 

[day_trippr]

I'm seeing a lot of head space once the filler is removed and the cap placed.
Is there enough CO2 from purging to keep that from being a shelf life problem?

Cheers!

 

[Bobbybob]

They believe it can be produced for around $500.00

I am not seeing 500 dollars worth of material there. I think they are off the mark a bit.

 

[Tapcooler]

I'm seeing a lot of head space once the filler is removed and the cap placed.
Is there enough CO2 from purging to keep that from being a shelf life problem?

Cheers!

Good point. Tuning for more foam is easy though.

 

[Tapcooler]

I am not seeing 500 dollars worth of material there. I think they are off the mark a bit.

The price for the dual head setup is not settled. We've indicated around 400 euros or less than 500 USD when presenting for breweries.
The single head setup in the other video retails for about 162 USD in Europe.

 

[Wayne1]

Tapcooler, Thank you for posting on this thread.

Have you ever done DO measurements on any of the cans that were filled with your setup?

Would you share the numbers?

 

[Bobbybob]

The price for the dual head setup is not settled. We've indicated around 400 euros or less than 500 USD when presenting for breweries.
The single head setup in the other video retails for about 162 USD in Europe.

I got to say I like the innovative things I see on your website. Here is my question. If these are retailing for 162USD, (162+162=324)what is costing another 180 dollars? What am I not seeing in the video?
Your product is slick and you can charge a premium for that. That said I am not the only DIYer who sees what you did and goes “I have wood clamps in the garage, I wonder if I can make that?”

 

[Oberstbrau]

.

 

[Oberstbrau]

.

 

[Tapcooler]

Tapcooler, Thank you for posting on this thread.

Have you ever done DO measurements on any of the cans that were filled with your setup?

Would you share the numbers?

Not yet, but are planning to. Will be shared!

 

[Tapcooler]

I got to say I like the innovative things I see on your website. Here is my question. If these are retailing for 162USD, (162+162=324)what is costing another 180 dollars? What am I not seeing in the video?
Your product is slick and you can charge a premium for that. That said I am not the only DIYer who sees what you did and goes “I have wood clamps in the garage, I wonder if I can make that?”

There are a few differences, integrated drip tray, bottle filling attachment etc. The price indications for the pro version are to find out if some of the pros are interested, just to find out if it is worthwile manufacuring. I've assumed they would want the extra bits. I could be wrong.
Please make your own if you like. There's a guy in the UK having a go without machining parts like we do, not finished yet, but it might be brilliant eventually. And he is not using wood clamps!

 

[pinemarten]

Has anyone had success using a 16.0oz can instead of the 16.9oz Can Fresh cans? The Can Fresh can is a 202 end, which I understand to be the U.S. standard, can and I know there are 202 end 16.0oz cans. My U.S. purchased Cannular came with a B64 (Ball) chuck for 202 ends. Could it be as simple as adjusting the table height or 3d printing a different table spacer?

 

[Bobbybob]

Has anyone had success using a 16.0oz can instead of the 16.9oz Can Fresh cans? The Can Fresh can is a 202 end, which I understand to be the U.S. standard, can and I know there are 202 end 16.0oz cans. My U.S. purchased Cannular came with a B64 (Ball) chuck for 202 ends. Could it be as simple as adjusting the table height or 3d printing a different table spacer?

If it is the same top it should work. When you get the canner you have to adjust the height yourself. I have. At least another 1/2 inch of play in the screw.

 

[pinemarten]

Thanks Bobbybob. It does look like there is enough play in the height. What I'm not sure about is if a different spacer is needed to properly hold a standard 16.0oz can as KegLand seemingly wants people locked into their cans. I haven't had any negative issues with their CanFresh 16.9oz cans. But then I saw Bryan Rabe's cans, discovered the minimum order is just 380, and got jealous.

 

[sicktght311]

Can someone with the cannular verify something for me? I'm having a dick of a time setting this thing up, and no matter how perfect to spec i get the rollers, and the table, i still have an issue with the seam. Its like 1 out of every 4 cans seams properly.

Something i noticed today, and not sure if its a defective part on my side, or if it really doesnt matter, but when i put a 16.9oz can on the plastic table/spacer, i have about a mm of play in all directions where i can move the can around. Seems to me that would account for the can not always sitting dead center on the table and therefore when its raised into position its not perfectly concentric with the chuck.

Can someone with the 16.9oz cannular put an empty can on their table/spacer and tell me if it fits snug, or has some movement?

 

[Bobbybob]

Can someone with the cannular verify something for me? I'm having a dick of a time setting this thing up, and no matter how perfect to spec i get the rollers, and the table, i still have an issue with the seam. Its like 1 out of every 4 cans seams properly. I havent had a leaky can in the last 100 or so that I have canned.

Something i noticed today, and not sure if its a defective part on my side, or if it really doesnt matter, but when i put a 16.9oz can on the plastic table/spacer, i have about a mm of play in all directions where i can move the can around. Seems to me that would account for the can not always sitting dead center on the table and therefore when its raised into position its not perfectly concentric with the chuck.

Can someone with the 16.9oz cannular put an empty can on their table/spacer and tell me if it fits snug, or has some movement?

Before I put the top on and and slide the handle into the locked position it has a small amount of play. Once the handle is locked the can is super solid. I am down to 1 bad can per 100 or so.

 

[beervoid]

Not yet, but are planning to. Will be shared!

Has this been shared yet?