Length of time in Primary?

[onipar]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a couple weeks now, reading all I can. I'm very new to the beer brewing world. I have my very first wort in the primary fermenter as I type.

I've read *a lot* on this particular subject, but I wanted to get some advice anyway.

I am brewing a wheat ale (Blue Moon Clone) from a Coopers malt extract kit. It was made with the 3.75 LB Coopers extract kit, 1.5 pounds of dry malt, and .5 ounces each of bitter orange peel and coriander. Today marks the 7th day in primary.

At first, everything I had been reading suggested 1 week (assuming the hydrometer readings were consistent) would be long enough in the primary. The airlock slowed bubbling at around 6 days, so I opened to take a reading. The OG had been 1.041. The reading I took 6 days in was 1.018. What surprised me was that there was still quite a bit of stuff floating on the surface of the beer, along with a thin mat of very small bubbles.

I tasted the hydrometer reading sample, and it tasted like (a not very good) beer. Not sweet, a tiny bit of fizz to it still, but mostly flat.

So I did some more reading and found a lot of brewers advocating at least 2 weeks in primary, and *not* the 1 week I had initially read. They said that even after fermentation is done, giving another week or so would allow the yeast to "clean up" after themselves and improve the beer flavor.

So I guess my question is this:

With fermentation ceased, do I bottle today (1 week in), or let it sit another week?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

-Tony

EDIT: Just to reiterate, I have searched the forums and read all I could about the length of time in primary. I was just hoping for a little advice in terms of my particular brew. I'm mostly worried that an extra week on top of the yeast cake (with no fermentation occurring) might produce off flavors.) Thanks again.

 

[Hammy71]

Most wheat beers I rack earlier, although I would at least leave it in the primary for another week. Most ales I leave in the primary for at least a month. 1.018 is still a little high, so I'd just let it go.

 

[onipar]

Great, thanks, Hammy! Yeah, I wasn't sure about wheat ales. I read a couple things that seemed to suggest they ferment quicker, or should be bottled sooner. But I wasn't sure if that necessarily applied.

Also, thank you for mentioning that 1.018 was still a bit high. To be honest, I didn't realize that.

Thanks again.

 

[dlaramie08]

I still think you have a whole lot more reading to do. Everything on this forum says at least 4 weeks, maybe one less for wheat beers. You need to do some more waiting and reading.

 

[onipar]

Haha, yeah apparently. I haven't heard much about 4 weeks in primary except for a couple posts here and there of people saying they've left it that long for reasons like being out of town.

I've gone through the entire 1st section of "Joy of Home Brewing," all the guidebooks that came with my brew kit, the beginners guides in Zymurgy, and tons of forum posts, and still I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

 

[diS]

I"m still beginner too, as far as I know so far there was rule 1-2-3 (primary-secondary-aging in bottle), but there is more often mentioned that for beers that are not heavy to simple avoid secondary and follow rule 3-3 (primary-aging in bottle).

 

[onipar]

Wow, okay, so 3 weeks primary and 3 weeks in the bottle? Darn, looks like my plan of having homebrew for Memorial Day weekend might be shot.

 

[onipar]

Thanks everybody for the info. This being my first batch, I think I'm just going to split the difference and let it be in the primary for 2 weeks. I know that even though the recipe says to bottle after 7-10 days, it's not necessarily correct, but how much flavor difference am I sacrificing by bottling at 2 weeks instead of 3 (or 4)?

Also, does the fact that this was an all-extract brew (with no fresh grains or hops) effect the length of time in primary? Or maybe I am thinking of the wort boil-time...?

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[diS]

Beer will probably mostly ferment in 2 weeks, but it is always good to give yeast enough time to "clear" after it self.
That means that the beer will be clearer and with better flavor. Most experienced members will give you more precise answer for this, but if we look why to use secondary ferment we can easily get an answer that its purpose is to clear the beer and get most of flavors form it (not to ferment it).

If I am wrong please someone correct me.

 

[PhelanKA7]

Beer will probably mostly ferment in 2 weeks, but it is always good to give yeast enough time to "clear" after it self.
That means that the beer will be clearer and with better flavor. Most experienced members will give you more precise answer for this, but if we look why to use secondary ferment we can easily get an answer that its purpose is to clear the beer and get most of flavors form it (not to ferment it).

If I am wrong please someone correct me.

Don't forget that secondaries are also important for dry-hopping a beer or adding fruit.

A lot of people are coming around to the conclusion that you can get just as much clarity in a beer by just leaving it in the primary for a while longer instead of doing a secondary altogether. Personally I've always done a secondary when I want to clear a beer as well, but alot of people swear by extended time in primary and skipping a secondary altogether. It just comes down to what you prefer IMO.

 

[onipar]

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of good reasons for both methods. Personally, I'd like to eventually start using a secondary mainly for added flavors and lagering, but I'm too new to all this for that yet. I hope by the fall I can do a autumn/winter flavored lager.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't wheat beer cloudy anyway? I know, especially with the Blue Moon clone, that it's supposed to be a bit cloudy, so is the extra time for "clearing" still necessary? Or is the type of cloudiness you get from wheat beer something other than what clears from extended time in the primary?

 

[brewd00d]

The temperature at which you are fermenting will determine how quickly or slow it will take.

I literally just put a hefeweizen into the secondary 2 hours ago. It took about 7 days to ferment at 75 degrees. I used the hydrometer to make sure the same reading was stable over the course of a couple days.

i did a another hefe a few months ago at 63 degrees (a little on the low side) that took about 2 weeks to fully ferment.

 

[brewd00d]

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of good reasons for both methods. Personally, I'd like to eventually start using a secondary mainly for added flavors and lagering, but I'm too new to all this for that yet. I hope by the fall I can do a autumn/winter flavored lager.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't wheat beer cloudy anyway? I know, especially with the Blue Moon clone, that it's supposed to be a bit cloudy, so is the extra time for "clearing" still necessary? Or is the type of cloudiness you get from wheat beer something other than what clears from extended time in the primary?

its your preference if you want to clear it up, but most will clear in the secondary by itself just being in there for a few weeks.

 

[onipar]

The temperature at which you are fermenting will determine how quickly or slow it will take.

I literally just put a hefeweizen into the secondary 2 hours ago. It took about 7 days to ferment at 75 degrees. I used the hydrometer to make sure the same reading was stable over the course of a couple days.

i did a another hefe a few months ago at 63 degrees (a little on the low side) that took about 2 weeks to fully ferment.

Oh yeah, the temperature is whole other issue that I had "noob" problems with. At first I was reading the adhesive thermometer strip on the outside of my bucket as a "true reading." It wasn't long before I realized the actual temp of the wort was hotter. So after a day at what my thermometer said was 68, but was in reality probably closer to 78, I put the bucket in my garage. After a week the reading was closer to 56, which I took to be closer to 66.

At this point (around 6 days) the airlock had almost stopped bubbling. We brought it back into the house, did a hydrometer test (1.018), then left it inside to warm up a bit. We got another day of activity, and now it's all quiet on the western front.

I didn't want to open her back up for another reading, figuring it's probably done, or very close to being done, fermenting. So I'm hoping this next week will be "clearing" time, so next Sunday we can bottle. Guess I won't know for sure till then.

 

[NWMushroom]

Oh yeah, the temperature is whole other issue that I had "noob" problems with. At first I was reading the adhesive thermometer strip on the outside of my bucket as a "true reading." It wasn't long before I realized the actual temp of the wort was hotter. So after a day at what my thermometer said was 68, but was in reality probably closer to 78, I put the bucket in my garage. After a week the reading was closer to 56, which I took to be closer to 66.

That's strange. I've found my strip thermometers to be accurate to within 1-2 degrees of the wort temperature.

 

[Rahahb]

EDIT: Just to reiterate, I have searched the forums and read all I could about the length of time in primary. I was just hoping for a little advice in terms of my particular brew. I'm mostly worried that an extra week on top of the yeast cake (with no fermentation occurring) might produce off flavors.) Thanks again.

From what I've seen on here, you don't have to worry about off flavors within the time frame you are talking about. Nowhere even close. I just made my fourth beer and I transfered to secondary the first 3 times. This time I think I'm going to skip that and go straight to bottles.

 

[onipar]

NWmushroom, what are you fermenting in? I read that buckets insulate better, so give a slightly off reading as compared to say a glass carboy which might be much more accurate when using an adhesive thermometer. But again, I'm only basing this on stuff I read, so in actual practice I may be completely wrong...

Rahahb, thanks. Yeah, that's the impression I'm starting to get too. It's sounding more and more like letting the beer sit longer in primary is the way to go.

 

[TTB-J]

NWmushroom, what are you fermenting in? I read that buckets insulate better, so give a slightly off reading as compared to say a glass carboy which might be much more accurate when using an adhesive thermometer. But again, I'm only basing this on stuff I read, so in actual practice I may be completely wrong...

Rahahb, thanks. Yeah, that's the impression I'm starting to get too. It's sounding more and more like letting the beer sit longer in primary is the way to go.

Just trust your hydrometer - it will tell you when it's done fermenting. My guess is that if you go back out and take another reading in 3 days that it will be lower than 1.018. Even if it's just 1.017, that means the yeast is still working and consuming sugars. Until you get two readings from about 3 days apart that are exactly the same, you can't really be sure that fermentation is complete. Plus, as you noted, the beer doesn't taste good right now. Fermentation is messy. The beer will not start to taste like it should until that process is finished and the yeast has had time to fully convert sugar to alcohol and consume some of the by-products of fermentation. So wait a few days, take another sample and taste it again. Repeat until you get consistent readings and good taste - then it's time to bottle. Good luck and congrats on the first batch!

 

[onipar]

Thanks, TTB-J. Will-do.

Yeah, we planned on taking a second hydrometer reading on Sunday, but once I read a bit about letting it go for more like 2-3 weeks, I decided it's best not to keep opening the lid and figured I'd do another reading closer to next Sunday.

You're right though, after that first reading there was still activity happening.

Thanks again. I'm a very impatient noob at this point. I haven't even finished my first batch and I'm already thinking about the next.

 

[beergolf]

I'm a very impatient noob at this point. I haven't even finished my first batch and I'm already thinking about the next.

Patience is the hardest part about brewing. If I could just invent a drug that would make every new brewer forget about their beer for 3 weeks I could be a millionare.........

Definitely get another fermenter and start another batch ASAP. Better yet get 2 new fementers and that way you can pretty much brew a batch every week and still leave you brews in the fementer for 3 weeks. Once your pipeline gets built up it is WAAAAAAY easier to let them sit.

 

[Wakadaka]

On my second batch which was an american wheat from AHS, I bottled after 10 days. The beer turned out really good and was tasting great after another week and a half to 2 weeks.

That is the shortest I have primaried any other beer, actually less than half as long as anything else I have made, but it turned out great.

For your first batch I would wait to bottle until: fermentation has stopped, you have enough bottles, and you have all your ingredients for your next batch on hand.

 

[onipar]

Thanks, Beergolf. That raises a good question. Being so new at this, I sort of spent about as much as I'm willing to spend on equipment for the time being. I figured I should brew a few batches before spending more money, but that was assuming I needed a glass carboy for secondary fermentation.

I'm starting to read that you can secondary with a bucket as well (which of course would be a hell of a lot cheaper for me, and also allow me to brew more at once).

So I guess I'm asking, is it okay to secondary in a bucket? Some seem to suggest that especially for adding fruit or other flavorings, a bucket is preferable. True, false, or just a matter of opinion?

And along those lines, would extended secondary fermentation for a lager be okay in a bucket, or is there a certain length of time where you're better off with glass?

 

[Wakadaka]

If your going out and buying something new, go with glass or a better bottle. buckets can be used in a pinch, but you aren't going to be able to minimize headspace as well. I think it would be better to just add fruit or dry hop in primary. I wouldn't think lagering in a bucket would be the best idea either.

 

[onipar]

Thanks, Wakadaka.

When you say to use the fruit in primary, do you mean during or after the initial fermentation? I was under the impression fruit during fermentation could kill the fruit flavor, or negatively change it.

Also, thanks for the course correction concerning my bucket idea. I'll probably just do a few more primary-only brews until I have some extra cash for a glass carboy.

 

[speedy2782]

Always keep in mind that there is no perfect way to make a beer. Each person develops personal methodology that fits there needs, wants, and experiences. Plenty of people religiously follow a schedule. (1.2.3) while others have a "get to it eventually schedule." The great thing is when you are done you have HOMEBREW! At this point don't worry too much. Really start getting anal when you have an order for beer and someone is paying you. But this is coming from a Guy who doesnt take a final gravity until bottling just to compute abv.
Be careful who you buy advice from but more careful when buying into free advice.

 

[onipar]

Thanks, Speedy. That advice fits perfectly with what my brother just said to me:

"Stop listening to the internet forums and use the book" (Joy of Homebrewing). I think I'm just getting ahead of myself, considering topics I'm nowhere near to actually being able to use in practice. I"m still just an "extract brewer" after all. :rockin:

 

[viking73]

"Stop listening to the internet forums and use the book" (Joy of Homebrewing).

Read Palmer's "How to Brew" as well.

 

[onipar]

Will-do. I'm only about a third of the way through this one, but I'll eventually get to it all. I'd like to do a few batches or more in each step (beginner, intermediate, etc). Although I'm probably going to jump right into intermediate to be honest (malt extracts with specialty grains and hops) because straight-up extract brewing is simple enough. Or, at least, it seems that way until I taste this first batch and realize I screwed up royally. :cross:

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, Beergolf. That raises a good question. Being so new at this, I sort of spent about as much as I'm willing to spend on equipment for the time being. I figured I should brew a few batches before spending more money, but that was assuming I needed a glass carboy for secondary fermentation.

I'm starting to read that you can secondary with a bucket as well (which of course would be a hell of a lot cheaper for me, and also allow me to brew more at once).

So I guess I'm asking, is it okay to secondary in a bucket? Some seem to suggest that especially for adding fruit or other flavorings, a bucket is preferable. True, false, or just a matter of opinion?

And along those lines, would extended secondary fermentation for a lager be okay in a bucket, or is there a certain length of time where you're better off with glass?

I don't secondary my beers very often (more for wine) but if I do, I don't recommend using a bucket. The headspace is very wide, and once the beer is done fermenting, you shouldn't move it to a bucket. It's better off to leave it where it is rather than moving it to another bucket and displacing the co2 "blanket" on it. The "blanket" helps protect the beer, although it's not there indefinitely. I always use a carboy to lager.

I leave my ales in primary (almost always a bucket) for two weeks, maybe three, and then package it. My wines will go from primary to secondary in a carboy with almost no headspace at all. Of course, the wines might stay in secondary a year so I use a carboy.

When I make lagers, I rack to a carboy right after the diacetyl rest to proceed with lagering. My beers might lager for 8-10 weeks, and the headspace in a bucket is just too wide.

 

[onipar]

Thanks very much, Yooper. I think, when I have the money, I'll go with the glass carboy then. But I'll probably stick to just primary for a little while at least, while I get the basics down.