Leaving dark grains out of mash?

[PADave]

In my reading I've been seeing the technique of not mashing the dark grains, like in a stout, and steeping them separately, then adding that to the boil, so as not to lower the mash pH too much. That got me thinking how I could easily incorporate this technique into my full volume BIAB brewing. Could I do the mash with the base malts like normal, then pull the bag. Then while the bag is draining, add the dark grains in a separate bag to steep for 15-20 min, pull that bag and bring to a boil? See anything wrong or potential problems?

 

[brewbama]

I recommend Cold Steeping

“Cold steeping is a process popularized by Mary Anne Gruber at Briess. The idea was to find a way to extract the favorable flavors from dark specialty grains, but leave behind the harsh characteristics, giving the brewer a greater level of control over the color of the beer.

Gruber found that for some dark grains, steeping the crushed grains in room temperature water for 24-hours creates an extract that can be added to the boil pot or fermenter. Flavor aside, Gruber noted that the less heat involved in the process, the richer the aromas.

Homebrewers can create a cold-steeped extract by soaking 1-pound of crushed grains in 2-quarts of water overnight. After 24 hours, strain the grains and add to the beer as your preference dictates.

If you intend to add the extract to the boil pot, pour it in within the last 5-10 minutes of the boil. If you add it earlier, the length of the boil can bring out some of the harsh attributes. If adding to the fermenter, take care to avoid oxygenating the wort.

The remaining extract can be heated to 150°F, transferred to a mason jar and refrigerated for up to a month for use in future brews.”

Cold Water Extraction of Dark Grains by Mary Anne Gruber (January/February 2002 Zymurgy)

https://www.homebrewersassociation....steeping-getting-the-most-out-of-dark-grains/

 

[Morrey]

In my reading I've been seeing the technique of not mashing the dark grains, like in a stout, and steeping them separately, then adding that to the boil, so as not to lower the mash pH too much. That got me thinking how I could easily incorporate this technique into my full volume BIAB brewing. Could I do the mash with the base malts like normal, then pull the bag. Then while the bag is draining, add the dark grains in a separate bag to steep for 15-20 min, pull that bag and bring to a boil? See anything wrong or potential problems?

For sure, Dave, I have seen this technique discussed. Those dark roasted malts have virtually no diastatic power on their own, but they are used in much smaller quantities than base malts which gives all the conversion power needed. In that regard, mashing them separately would have little impact on efficiency.

Even though I considered trying what you are saying, will adding the roast malts in for an abbreviated steep cycle give us the dark roasted notes we want in a beer? I am of the opinion that it may not, but this is coming from someone who wouldn't want to try this and fail to make a good beer resulting from experimentation.

Using a good water management program, ph additions are quick and easy. With my source water tested by Ward Labs, typical 3-6 SRM grain bills need appx 5ml lactic for full vol BIAB mashing of 7.5G. I am doing an oyster stout tomorrow, and the lactic demands are reduced to 3ml which accounts for the acidity of the dark roasted malts.

All in all, I just don't think the complexity of the dark coffee and chocolate notes will come thru as much with a steep vs a full mash. Just my opinion and some others will likely support the short steep.

EDIT/NOTE: Looking at brewbama's post, I like where he is heading with this option. Makes really good sense to think about trying this. I use debittered malts in my stouts so I am hesitant to try this w/o doing some extract experimentations. Maybe I'll do a batch of cold brewed extracts, then use the same vol of roast malts in 152F mash, cool, then compare taste profiles. I plan to try this.

 

[Brew_G]

Obviously, folks can go about making beer in whatever way they choose, but I personally don't see a need to take the extra step of cold-steeping dark grains. Just throw it all in the mash and let the yeast sort it out!

 

[Miraculix]

You can also throw the dark stuff into the mash just for the last 15 to 20 minutes of the mashing time, I read that this should also prevent astringency.

But as I have hard tap water, I do not see the necessity for it. Although it might be interesting to be able to go beyond the usual maximum of ten percent of roasted grains without risking to get that sharp and burned flavour...

As you see, many ways exist to approach this issue!

 

[OldDirty]

Personally, I'm a fan of cold steeping. I've done it with any roasted grain that's over 120srm. This gives me more room in the mash, doesn't give off any astringency, and makes my stouts and porters more drinkable sooner. I mill all the roasted grains at once, combine them and steep them overnight. It's less than an hour of your time. Play with it and see if you like it.

 

[Miraculix]

Personally, I'm a fan of cold steeping. I've done it with any roasted grain that's over 120srm. This gives me more room in the mash, doesn't give off any astringency, and makes my stouts and porters more drinkable sooner. I mill all the roasted grains at once, combine them and steep them overnight. It's less than an hour of your time. Play with it and see if you like it.

Drinkable earlier? Now you got me! Gonna try this with my next dark brew. Thanks!

 

[OldDirty]

Most of the aging time is for the astringency to mellow. The flavors marry well only after a few months. YMMV with the grains being used.