Leads on In-Line 240V GFCI

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

butterblum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
204
Reaction score
13
Hey guys, I am going to be powering a 5500W element from a dryer receptacle. There are 30A breakers in the main panel. I may not be in the same house much longer, so I need a portable solution.
I am having a hard time finding the in-line 30A GFCI cords. Where is the best place to find them (at least not for $200)?
Thanks
 
Hey guys, I am going to be powering a 5500W element from a dryer receptacle. There are 30A breakers in the main panel. I may not be in the same house much longer, so I need a portable solution.
I am having a hard time finding the in-line 30A GFCI cords. Where is the best place to find them (at least not for $200)?
Thanks

Why not a SPA panel? You can take it with you when you move. You will find a 50 amp panel under $100.
 
Yep, take a Cutler Hammer/Eaton BR50SPAST 50A "spa panel" and add a 12-3 dryer cable with plug going in and another 12-3 cable with plug of your choice heading out of the box. I swapped mine to a 30A Cutler Hammer GFCI breaker since my main breaker box runs a 30A breaker. I sold the 50A GFCI breaker on this forum to someone with a larger system.

EDIT: MikeStrill beat me to it. Also, I don't think I was able to find a 30A spa panel, hence me using the 50A.
 
Yep, take a Cutler Hammer/Eaton BR50SPAST 50A "spa panel" and add a 12-3 dryer cable with plug going in and another 12-3 cable with plug of your choice heading out of the box. I swapped mine to a 30A Cutler Hammer GFCI breaker since my main breaker box runs a 30A breaker. I sold the 50A GFCI breaker on this forum to someone with a larger system.

EDIT: MikeStrill beat me to it. Also, I don't think I was able to find a 30A spa panel, hence me using the 50A.

I have seen people doing this, but am confused as to how people have been wiring these. What do you do for a ground wire connection if you are only running 12/3 to the spa panel?
Where do you place the spa panel? Next to your brew panel, or near your drier outlet?
Thanks
 
I have seen people doing this, but am confused as to how people have been wiring these. What do you do for a ground wire connection if you are only running 12/3 to the spa panel?
Where do you place the spa panel? Next to your brew panel, or near your drier outlet?
Thanks

A 12-3 cable has 2 hots, 1 neutral and one ground. Wiring the spa panel is easy and you'll find tons of pictures, how to's and videos.

You need to place the GFCI (SPA panel) where it cannot get in contact with water. If you place it just beside your kettle the GFCI won't help that much. :no:
 
depending on the panel you have... you may want to just consider buy the GFCI break and swapping it out. When you move you can swap the old one back in. As long as it's one of the major brands you have a significant chance the new house will have the same style breaker.
 
depending on the panel you have... you may want to just consider buy the GFCI break and swapping it out. When you move you can swap the old one back in. As long as it's one of the major brands you have a significant chance the new house will have the same style breaker.

+1. Once you spend money on wiring up the Spa panel and all the other little incidentals, you are probably going to spend about the same. Your spa panel needs to be far enough away from your water so that it can never, ever get wet - that should not an issue with the the breaker in your panel. Spa panels work great for a lot of people, and more power to them, but in my mind the right way to do it is a GFCI breaker in the panel.
 
Unfortunately, this is what I am working with. Neutral is definitely connected to the grounding bar, and the dryer outlet is only 3 prongs.
What are my options?
 

Attachments

  • 20180220_193522.jpg
    20180220_193522.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 241
  • 20180220_193542.jpg
    20180220_193542.jpg
    602.3 KB · Views: 235
  • 20180220_193811.jpg
    20180220_193811.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 355
It's been a while since I replaced an Eaton breaker in a main circuit box, but you should be able to drop in an Eaton 30A GFCI breaker, then run 12/3 Romex cable to your outlet location, then install a 4-prong outlet in an approved box with cover that would screw to your beam..

You'd then have to convert your dryer to a 4-wire cable or buy an adapter for 4 to 3-prong plug.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-T...nd-Fault-Circuit-Breaker-GFTCB230CS/206677556

*disclaimer: I'm not an electrician and what I suggested above has municipal and federal code requirements which you will need to look up. You would likely not need an electrical inspection since you're not installing a "new circuit," but do check your local regs.
 
If I choose to not rewire the panel for a house that's not mine, can I still install a spa panel with the existing configuration?
 
If your dryer outlet only has three prongs then there is not a neutral conductor at the receptacle so you won't be able to use it. Also, if you do run new wire from the panel you would need 10 awg for 30amp.
 
I foresee staying in this area for a while, which is almost entirely made up of houses from the 1920s and 1930s.
Maybe I can go the 120V route with two foldback 1500W elements. I can run power from two different circuits, use the PID for one of them, but just have a switch on the panel to manually turn on the second when I need to ramp up to a boil or rapidly heat strike water for the mash. I can just swap out the existing receptacles in the house with 15A GFCI receptacles.
 
If I choose to not rewire the panel for a house that's not mine, can I still install a spa panel with the existing configuration?
You would essentially be using the spa panel as an in-line GFCI. Cord from wall outlet to spa panel, then another cord/outlet on the spa panel to your control panel.

I foresee staying in this area for a while, which is almost entirely made up of houses from the 1920s and 1930s.
Maybe I can go the 120V route with two foldback 1500W elements. I can run power from two different circuits, use the PID for one of them, but just have a switch on the panel to manually turn on the second when I need to ramp up to a boil or rapidly heat strike water for the mash. I can just swap out the existing receptacles in the house with 15A GFCI receptacles.

If you are in an area that is mostly natural gas or propane heat (like Chicago), then going to dual 120v is not a bad idea, since a lot of houses may not have a dryer outlet with 220v. If electric dryers are common, then I would probably move towards 220v.

A 3 prong dryer outlet is a H,H,N configuration. Generally speaking, it is still up to code to use, but new installation mandates a H,H,N,G 4-prong configuration. Neutral and Ground wires both provide a return path for electricity to ground. The two should be connected ("bonded") at the panel and only at the panel. That allows the ground circuit to act as a safety feature that provides a back-up return path in the event of a neutral wire short somewhere in the system - at all other times, the ground wire does not carry current.

While it may not be best practice or up to code, using a GFCI spa panel with a 3 wire configuration should work. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...tric-brew-pot-controller.447359/#post-5735537

The primary issue with electricity is that when it goes wrong, it goes really, really wrong, and people die and houses burn down. Other than that, electricity is straightforward to work with and safe.

*I am not an electrician. Consult one.
 
From reading some of this, it seems that if you are going to go with the 3-wire spa panel design, you are unable to create a 120V circuit from one of the 240V legs; you must use a transformer if you want to power anything using 120V in your panel. I would need to power an EZBoil, so I need 120V.
Sounds like the best bet is a dual-element design.
 
In the HVAC field, I sometimes see 240v ,30 amp gfci plugs on ptac a/c units (thru wall like you would see in a motel). I have a 20 amp that I was able to source from a dead unit. Did you already check ebay/amazon?
 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZY2YVU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

You should just buy one of these. It would cost more to make a spa panel work in your situation and it would be much easier to go this route. I bought one from Woodhead on amazon just about 2 months ago and it was only 50 dollars. The exact same one is over 200 now. Not sure how that happened, I guess I got lucky. I made my electric brew controller with this and just eliminated the neutral wire. Works great for me and I didn’t have to re wire my house.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most of the world uses 220v for household power. The reason I mention this is that 220v components are readily, cheaply available, so that you don't need the neutral for a panel. I use a 220v PID and SSR for my HLT, and a PWM for my BK. Even my indicator lights are 220v. No 110v at all. I built another box, using the same PWM, to control the speed of my 110v pump. I think I paid more for the twist-lock plugs than I did for the control components.
 
Most of the world uses 220v for household power. The reason I mention this is that 220v components are readily, cheaply available, so that you don't need the neutral for a panel. I use a 220v PID and SSR for my HLT, and a PWM for my BK. Even my indicator lights are 220v. No 110v at all. I built another box, using the same PWM, to control the speed of my 110v pump. I think I paid more for the twist-lock plugs than I did for the control components.

I didn't even realize that the EZBoil can run off of 220V. Other than a PID, I would just have a temp sensor input and a main disconnect in my control panel - no pump control as I am going to buy a Riptide.
How would I wire the GFCI breaker in my house's panel? Doesn't the breaker have a neutral wire incorporated into it?
 
I didn't even realize that the EZBoil can run off of 220V. Other than a PID, I would just have a temp sensor input and a main disconnect in my control panel - no pump control as I am going to buy a Riptide.
How would I wire the GFCI breaker in my house's panel? Doesn't the breaker have a neutral wire incorporated into it?
I don't know if the EZBoil will run on 220v, I just use a generic PID for my HLT and a generic PWM with digital control for the BK. It's all manual except for HLT temp. The PWM is rated for 10,000w, so a 5000w BoilCoil is no strain at all.

I run the BK at 100% until boiling starts, then dial it back to around 60% to maintain a good boil. All the EZBoil does differently is switch to manual mode at a preset temp. You still have to adjust the boil manually. Automatic control of boiling in an open vessel just isn't a thing. Research 'latent heat of vaporization' for the physics of it.

I'm not comfortable giving advice on wiring. I have some books, and a lot of tools, but I'm not an electrician, so I respectfully decline to advise you on wiring. I'm sure someone here can help. Good luck!
 
I guess the question is this:
For a three pronged outlet, is it hot, hot, ground? Or hot, hot, neutral?
If I install a 30A GFCI breaker, do I leave the 3rd conductor (neutral/ground) to the dryer grounded in the main panel, connect both hots to the breaker, and then take the neutral 'pigtail' on the GFCI breaker and connect it to the ground bar in the panel as well?
This would obviously eliminate the possibility of 120V service in the brewing control panel.
 
Last edited:
Yep, take a Cutler Hammer/Eaton BR50SPAST 50A "spa panel" and add a 12-3 dryer cable with plug going in and another 12-3 cable with plug of your choice heading out of the box. I swapped mine to a 30A Cutler Hammer GFCI breaker since my main breaker box runs a 30A breaker. I sold the 50A GFCI breaker on this forum to someone with a larger system.

EDIT: MikeStrill beat me to it. Also, I don't think I was able to find a 30A spa panel, hence me using the 50A.
the gfci function of a 50a breaker works fine with a 30a or less load... no need to swap any breakers, the 30a main breaker would still do its job.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top