Latest trend - NO Secondary?

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Grinder12000

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It seems that many seasoned pros are skipping using a secondary and just keeping everything in the Primary for two to MANY weeks).

The reasoning is to let the yeast clean up the diacetyl they've produced.

Is the reason for a secondary only for clearing the brew before bottling?
 
You can dry hop in the secondary as well.

My kit (Coopers) has no secondary fermenter so I've never used it (also no need for a siphon!) and I don't really feel like I need to either.
 
Yes, a secondary is actually more of a clearing tank. There are a couple of other reasons (benefits) to using one, though. First, for aging a length of time. You'd risk autolysis if you left the beer in primary for as long as you can leave it in secondary. So, you can rack from the primary and leave the beer in the clearing tank for a long, long, time. Also, in my case anyway, I always seem to drink the beer before it's actually at its peak. If I just use a primary, I might keg that and want to drink it before it's really time. If I put it in the secondary, I can't drink it too early!
 
I will continue to secondary everything but wheat/rye beers. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :D
 
Yes and/or to give n00bs something to do so that they don't drink green beer or create bottle bombs.

Did I say that out loud?

BWAHAHAHAHA +1!!!!

Secondary is good for many things...if you have added fruit in primary or during the boil (like a pumkin ale that calls for it in the boil).

Or adding Fruit, dryhopping, or adding something like vanilla to the beer after fermentation is complete.

Making room if you only have one fermenter...

Long term aging of beers, like barley wines that may take upwards of a year to mellow.

The fear of autolysis is a big reason that people are afraid of leaving it on the cake...But like Palmer said (and people usually miss)

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

I did it by accident the first time, I used to secondary all the time, but I accidently let Yooper's Dead Guy Clone sit for a month, and it was the best beer I ever made...then I started doing it to all my beers, even some repeat recipes...Then I heard about other's doing it and did some digging.
 
I have come to view the use of secondary as a step that potentially introduces oxidation or contamination to my beer, and I only use it when necessary. For example, if I want to bulk age a big stout or porter, I will rack to the secondary after 3 - 4 weeks in the primary and let it sit for 1 to many months. If I am dry hopping a beer, and I can't do it in the keg, I will use a secondary. Post-ferment fruit additions are also another reason to use a secondary.

Aside from special circumstances like these, I can see no real advantage to using a secondary. The often-cited concerns regarding autolysis within a week or two of brewing are grossly over-stated, and as long as you are always pitching an appropriate amount of healthy yeast there is no concern with leaving your beer on the yeast for up to a month (possibly more). In fact, I think home brewers should be MUCH more concerned about REMOVING their beer from the yeast too quickly, which can lead to all sorts of off-flavours, like diacetyl, acetaldehyde, etc. In the latter stages of fermentation, yeast naturally clean up a lot of these compounds, so why take your beer off the yeast too quickly? Leave your beer in the primary for about 3 weeks, skip the secondary unless you need one, and I suspect you will notice an improvement in your beer.
 
I have come to view the use of secondary as a step that potentially introduces oxidation or contamination to my beer, and I only use it when necessary. For example, if I want to bulk age a big stout or porter, I will rack to the secondary after 3 - 4 weeks in the primary and let it sit for 1 to many months. If I am dry hopping a beer, and I can't do it in the keg, I will use a secondary. Post-ferment fruit additions are also another reason to use a secondary.

Aside from special circumstances like these, I can see no real advantage to using a secondary. The often-cited concerns regarding autolysis within a week or two of brewing are grossly over-stated, and as long as you are always pitching an appropriate amount of healthy yeast there is no concern with leaving your beer on the yeast for up to a month (possibly more). In fact, I think home brewers should be MUCH more concerned about REMOVING their beer from the yeast too quickly, which can lead to all sorts of off-flavours, like diacetyl, acetaldehyde, etc. In the latter stages of fermentation, yeast naturally clean up a lot of these compounds, so why take your beer off the yeast too quickly? Leave your beer in the primary for about 3 weeks, skip the secondary unless you need one, and I suspect you will notice an improvement in your beer.

Well said!!!

I think a lot of new brewers simply have a hard time of conceiving this, simply due to excitement and impatience and a desire to taste their first beer...That's natural, I was the same way when I started...What happens is that once you have a pipeline built up you have plenty to drink, so you beer does end up sitting longer, and you have multiple batches in various stages of fermentation, secondary and bottle conditioning...(see most of our siglines for examples.)

The excitement of trying a new batch or recipe is no less for me keeping them longer, I just know that they are going to be great when I drink them...I still stare lovingly at my fermenters every day.
 
Since I started kegging, I've stopped secondarying. I haven't had any negative impact. YMMV, RDWHAHB, to each their own, etc...
 
If you secondary as a new brewer, you get twice the racking practice!

I'm actually serious, there are many wrong ways to do it and as FlyGuy stated, you can oxidize your beer or expose it to contaminents. Better to get the process down earlier than later.
 
WELL then!!

IF I have no need for a secondary (at this time) I suppose I can use my 5 gallon secondary as a primary ?????

any considerations on doing this (a little OT but . . . . )
 
The thing to remember is that the only "right way" to brew is the way that's right for you...What provides you with beer that meets your standards...

There are some absolutes, like Sanitization and Patience, but the brewing methodolgy employed, usually comes down to personal experience, and developing your process.
 
WELL then!!

IF I have no need for a secondary (at this time) I suppose I can use my 5 gallon secondary as a primary ?????

any considerations on doing this (a little OT but . . . . )

A five gallon carboy is really too small to use as a primary for a 5 gallon batch, but it is perfect to make meads and apfelwein.
 
I quit using secondary when I had a few infection problems. I haven't had any since. I just leave in primary for 3 weeks minimum.
 
I rack to secondary every batch, except I probably won't for the Apfelwein. Following Ed's directions on it to a 'T'.
 
Well said!!!

I think a lot of new brewers simply have a hard time of conceiving this, simply due to excitement and impatience and a desire to taste their first beer.

If that's the case, it's probably better to buy a wine theif and sample that way rather than racking just to taste it.

Personally, fruit and pumpkin beers aside, I transfer to the secondary after two weeks if I know that a beer is going to sit for more than a month (or a transfer it at the end of a month if I'm not ready to keg or bottle soon). Otherwise, I leave it in the primary until I'm ready for it. Some of the best advice I got from a veteran is that once it's transferred to the secondary, you can forget about it until you get a chance to bottle and it just gets better. In other words, even if you decide to just use a primary, it's good to have a secondary around just in case you don't find time to bottle, which happens a lot. Since I switched to kegging, I use a long secondary just to have a nicely aged beer in reserve for when my keg runs out, and if I left it in the primary until then, I might be pushing the envelope. I'm sure it can be left in the secondary too long, but my beers don't last long enough that I have to worry about it. Anyone know the limit, in general?
 
I am going to give this a try. I have always used a secondary. But for my current batch I am using my new pony keg as a fermenter and I am just going to leave it in there for about 3 weeks and then straight to keg. We'll see how it works.
 
IF I have no need for a secondary (at this time) I suppose I can use my 5 gallon secondary as a primary ?????
I've used a 5 gallon carboy as a way to (not) make a starter and get beer at the same time. Make a 3 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy. Pitch a single smack pack without a starter. When it's done, either wash the yeast or just dump the cake in a 6 gallon carboy for your next batch. It's a good way to experiment with a new recipe before making a large batch.
 
I have never racked a beer to secondary and probably won't unless I'm going to rack it onto fruit or something. I dryhop in the primary... the only issue with that as far as I can tell it makes yeast washing harder. I just use my 5gal fermenter for Apfelwein and maybe mead one day if I ever decide to pay that much for honey...
 
I have a question/observation along these lines.
For those of us that bottle (not sure about kegging) - There is always yeast in the bottom of the bottle. I would assume that although the amount of yeasties is minimal, they are still somewhat active during bottle conditioning. I would also assume that if autolysis was to occur, it could and would occur during bottling. I have yet to see this happening on any post and assume that autolysis would pretty much be a rarity to the average homebrewer.
Am I way off base here?
 
There is always yeast in the bottom of the bottle. I would assume that although the amount of yeasties is minimal, they are still somewhat active during bottle conditioning. I would also assume that if autolysis was to occur, it could and would occur during bottling. I have yet to see this happening on any post and assume that autolysis would pretty much be a rarity to the average homebrewer.
Am I way off base here?
I believe you are correct on all counts. Autolysis can occur in bottle conditioned beer, but it takes a long time since there is so little in the bottle. Of course, if you badly mishandle your bottled beer, you can speed up the process (as an experiment sometime, store your bottles for a week at a really warm temperature, say 90F, then put them back at room temperature for a month -- you will likely taste the yeast then).
 
yea - I thought a 5g was too small but was thinking of a way to use it LOL

One way to use it is to make 4 gallon batches. I am in the process of doing smaller batches in order to increase repetitions and gain experience with different styles and brewing methods.

Delpo
 
I picked up a fermentation bucket that turned out to be 5 gallons. No big deal, I simply use it as a secondary if I need to open up the primary for another brew.

Works just fine. If I didn't have the bug to brew up a weizen beer last Sunday, I would have left my currently aging beer sit in primary for 3 weeks or so.

It sounds like some people don't even rack to a bottling bucket though, is that the case?
 
I picked up a fermentation bucket that turned out to be 5 gallons. No big deal, I simply use it as a secondary if I need to open up the primary for another brew.

Works just fine. If I didn't have the bug to brew up a weizen beer last Sunday, I would have left my currently aging beer sit in primary for 3 weeks or so.

It sounds like some people don't even rack to a bottling bucket though, is that the case?

You should always use a bottling bucket. That is a whole separate issue, which is why no one mentioned it probably. If you don't use one then when you mix the sugar in you will mix up all the yeast and trub at the bottom, and you don't want to put that in the bottle.
 
You should always use a bottling bucket. That is a whole separate issue, which is why no one mentioned it probably. If you don't use one then when you mix the sugar in you will mix up all the yeast and trub at the bottom, and you don't want to put that in the bottle.

I think I read in Palmers book if you don't have a bottling bucket you can mix in the priming sugar and let it sit for about 15 mins to let the trub settle again before you bottle. Havent tried it, but I don't see why it wouldnt work. I poured a glass of truby beer and it settled out fairly quickly and tasted the same as the standard stuff.

OT im new to homebrew but I will be primarily making dark beers/stouts so im not worried about the beer clearing up to much but I will probably get another fermenter and a single secondary so I can have more beers going.
 
I think I read in Palmers book if you don't have a bottling bucket you can mix in the priming sugar and let it sit for about 15 mins to let the trub settle again before you bottle. Havent tried it, but I don't see why it wouldnt work. I poured a glass of truby beer and it settled out fairly quickly and tasted the same as the standard stuff.

OT im new to homebrew but I will be primarily making dark beers/stouts so im not worried about the beer clearing up to much but I will probably get another fermenter and a single secondary so I can have more beers going.

It might work...but I just don't get so many n00b aversions to using bottling buckets...Is it that whole fear of racking thing? (Please don't say oxygenating your beer, or risking bacteria....there's plenty of things in books we're told not to do, and racking or taking hydro readings ain't mentioned...)

You know how to solve the autosiphon/racking thing? Practice with water, or with your sanitizer on bottling day. Mix up some sanitizer in a dedicated cleaning bucket, then rack it to your bottling bucket...let some of it drain through your spigot, and rack the rest back to your bucket.
 
Don't know I didn't get a bottling bucket at first because I didn't think it was needed and I figured why spend the cash, come day before bottling day I ended up with a bottling bucket. Like what was suggested to me, my primary has a spigot so I just went to the hardware store I work at bought me a whilte 5 gal bucket (with the number 2 in the recycle symbol. Was told it was safe). Racked to it, cleaned primary and racked back to primary and bottled. Plus the "bottling bucket" doubles as a sanitize/cleaning bucket for all my goodies.
 
Don't know I didn't get a bottling bucket at first because I didn't think it was needed and I figured why spend the cash, come day before bottling day I ended up with a bottling bucket. Like what was suggested to me, my primary has a spigot so I just went to the hardware store I work at bought me a whilte 5 gal bucket (with the number 2 in the recycle symbol. Was told it was safe). Racked to it, cleaned primary and racked back to primary and bottled. Plus the "bottling bucket" doubles as a sanitize/cleaning bucket for all my goodies.

You should never use your bottling bucket or any primary buckets as sanitizing cleaning buckets...you want to be really careful not putting hard "goodies" in them, there is a big risk of scratching the plastic...and scratches are harbors for bacteria...I use a dedicated bucket for all my soaking needs.

My bottling bucket came from the hardware store as well :mug:
 
I don't bother using a secondary. My most recent beer sat in primary for fourty days before kegging with no ill effects whatsoever. I could see it if you're aging for months at a time. Otherwise it seems like more work and chance for infection or oxidation.
 
Hmm totally forgot about scratching. By goodies I meant my siphon hoses, bottle brush, and a few bottles. Don't think any of that has a huge potential to scratch but I will just use a dif sanitize bucket next time.
 
Just thought I would get in on this one,

I have only 3 primarys and no secondary... I age my beer for up to a month in primary and then bottle from the primary using carbing drops to be sure I get the right measure every time.

This my seem lazy but I beleive I have a very low risk of infection or airation, and when bottling I know all my bottles have the same amount of suger so, no risk of some being BOMBS....

K.I.S.S is the way I like to run things.....
 
I'm a quasi noob as well, but I use secondary to clear up my primary fermenter so I can make another brew. I don't have room for more fermentation vessels, so this lets me have 2 beers going at once.
 
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