Latest trend - NO Secondary?

[GunnerMan]

You should always use a bottling bucket. That is a whole separate issue, which is why no one mentioned it probably. If you don't use one then when you mix the sugar in you will mix up all the yeast and trub at the bottom, and you don't want to put that in the bottle.

I think I read in Palmers book if you don't have a bottling bucket you can mix in the priming sugar and let it sit for about 15 mins to let the trub settle again before you bottle. Havent tried it, but I don't see why it wouldnt work. I poured a glass of truby beer and it settled out fairly quickly and tasted the same as the standard stuff.

OT im new to homebrew but I will be primarily making dark beers/stouts so im not worried about the beer clearing up to much but I will probably get another fermenter and a single secondary so I can have more beers going.

 

[Revvy]

I think I read in Palmers book if you don't have a bottling bucket you can mix in the priming sugar and let it sit for about 15 mins to let the trub settle again before you bottle. Havent tried it, but I don't see why it wouldnt work. I poured a glass of truby beer and it settled out fairly quickly and tasted the same as the standard stuff.

OT im new to homebrew but I will be primarily making dark beers/stouts so im not worried about the beer clearing up to much but I will probably get another fermenter and a single secondary so I can have more beers going.

It might work...but I just don't get so many n00b aversions to using bottling buckets...Is it that whole fear of racking thing? (Please don't say oxygenating your beer, or risking bacteria....there's plenty of things in books we're told not to do, and racking or taking hydro readings ain't mentioned...)

You know how to solve the autosiphon/racking thing? Practice with water, or with your sanitizer on bottling day. Mix up some sanitizer in a dedicated cleaning bucket, then rack it to your bottling bucket...let some of it drain through your spigot, and rack the rest back to your bucket.

 

[GunnerMan]

Don't know I didn't get a bottling bucket at first because I didn't think it was needed and I figured why spend the cash, come day before bottling day I ended up with a bottling bucket. Like what was suggested to me, my primary has a spigot so I just went to the hardware store I work at bought me a whilte 5 gal bucket (with the number 2 in the recycle symbol. Was told it was safe). Racked to it, cleaned primary and racked back to primary and bottled. Plus the "bottling bucket" doubles as a sanitize/cleaning bucket for all my goodies.

 

[Revvy]

Don't know I didn't get a bottling bucket at first because I didn't think it was needed and I figured why spend the cash, come day before bottling day I ended up with a bottling bucket. Like what was suggested to me, my primary has a spigot so I just went to the hardware store I work at bought me a whilte 5 gal bucket (with the number 2 in the recycle symbol. Was told it was safe). Racked to it, cleaned primary and racked back to primary and bottled. Plus the "bottling bucket" doubles as a sanitize/cleaning bucket for all my goodies.

You should never use your bottling bucket or any primary buckets as sanitizing cleaning buckets...you want to be really careful not putting hard "goodies" in them, there is a big risk of scratching the plastic...and scratches are harbors for bacteria...I use a dedicated bucket for all my soaking needs.

My bottling bucket came from the hardware store as well

 

[mysteryberto]

I don't bother using a secondary. My most recent beer sat in primary for fourty days before kegging with no ill effects whatsoever. I could see it if you're aging for months at a time. Otherwise it seems like more work and chance for infection or oxidation.

 

[GunnerMan]

Hmm totally forgot about scratching. By goodies I meant my siphon hoses, bottle brush, and a few bottles. Don't think any of that has a huge potential to scratch but I will just use a dif sanitize bucket next time.

 

[olllllo]

Hem lines will also be inching up this fall.

 

[Revvy]

Hem lines will also be inching up this fall.

And black, is the "new black."

 

[Edsbae]

Just thought I would get in on this one,

I have only 3 primarys and no secondary... I age my beer for up to a month in primary and then bottle from the primary using carbing drops to be sure I get the right measure every time.

This my seem lazy but I beleive I have a very low risk of infection or airation, and when bottling I know all my bottles have the same amount of suger so, no risk of some being BOMBS....

K.I.S.S is the way I like to run things.....

 

[Laurel]

I'm a quasi noob as well, but I use secondary to clear up my primary fermenter so I can make another brew. I don't have room for more fermentation vessels, so this lets me have 2 beers going at once.

 

[FlyGuy]

I'm a quasi noob as well, but I use secondary to clear up my primary fermenter so I can make another brew. I don't have room for more fermentation vessels, so this lets me have 2 beers going at once.

If you skipped the secondary, wouldn't you ALSO have two fermentation vessels so that you could have two beers going at once (i.e. two primaries)?

 

[BierMuncher]

Anything that is going to a competition or a public serving will still get a secondary.

I use gelatin in all my bright beers for clarifying and if I can rid an additional 1/2" of sediment in my secondary rather than my keg, I will.

This is a secondary 24 hours after racking with gelatin. Notice that you can see the reflection of the bucket wall coming through the beer.


Up close (camera lens pushed against the carboy) you can almost read the print on the bucket behind the carboy.


No doubt in my experience, that a secondary facilitates a clearer beer in the keg.

 

[GunnerMan]

Yeah I have room for one more fermenter in my tub, my smaller tub is harder for me to maintain a constant temp so I figure a secondary in there at a bit warmer temps would be fine.

 

[TerapinChef]

I also use a secondary, mainly for reasons of aging. I never really know how long it's going to be before I feel like I need to bottle my next brew, and have been known to do a 6-8 week secondary after a 1-2 week primary. Plus it makes me feel like I have more room, as I am currently running two 5G secondaries and (2) 6.5G primaries. Although I am about to brew my first ten gallon batch, and am thinking about going with a large primary then splitting the secondary into two and oaking half of it....

 

[BierMuncher]

I also use a secondary, mainly for reasons of aging. I never really know how long it's going to be before I feel like I need to bottle my next brew, and have been known to do a 6-8 week secondary after a 1-2 week primary. Plus it makes me feel like I have more room, as I am currently running two 5G secondaries and (2) 6.5G primaries. Although I am about to brew my first ten gallon batch, and am thinking about going with a large primary then splitting the secondary into two and oaking half of it....

You a busy man....

 

[zoebisch01]

I have only ever used a secondary for Lagering things like Octoberfest, or for bulk aging high gravity Ales. Other than that, it has always pretty much been app. 10 days primary and then bottle/keg. Aging is a different story.

 

[Laurel]

If you skipped the secondary, wouldn't you ALSO have two fermentation vessels so that you could have two beers going at once (i.e. two primaries)?

Not really. I have a 5 gallon secondary carboy, there would be no room for krausen, and I'd lose lots of beer and have a big mess on my hands.

 

[FlyGuy]

Not really. I have a 5 gallon secondary carboy, there would be no room for krausen, and I'd lose lots of beer and have a big mess on my hands.

Ah, true enough. Although a smaller batch and/or some foam control drops could take care of that problem!

 

[Laurel]

Ah, true enough. Although a smaller batch and/or some foam control drops could take care of that problem!

I don't mind transferring to secondary and it keeps me from rushing myself and possibly creating bottle bombs. Besides, I can't drink more than 2 cases of beer every 2 weeks without help.

 

[duskb]

I have only ever used a secondary for Lagering things like Octoberfest, or for bulk aging high gravity Ales. Other than that, it has always pretty much been app. 10 days primary and then bottle/keg. Aging is a different story.

So, I'm a little unclear about this. The "guide book" I've been using states you should run primary for roughly two weeks and then secondary (if you wish) for an additional two weeks. As a noob I got impatient and bottled my last brew (Newcastle clone) after about 10 days in the primary. Within three days of bottling I popped one open and it tasted fine. Since then company has commented on the fine flavor of the beer as well.

More to the point...what's the minimum time I should leave the brew in the primary before bottling it? I see some of you guys leave it in the primary for up to 4 weeks and the guy above is doing more of what I've been doing. What, exactly, do I gain or lose with the extra 2.5 weeks of fermentation?

 

[TheFlatline]

The absolute minimum time needed in the primary is however long it takes to stop fermenting. The best way to establish this is to take consecutive hydrometer readings over 2-3 days (I'm starting to think of taking a reading one day, skipping the second, and taking a reading on the 3rd. I'll notice a change easier that way).

What do you gain from letting beer age?

Have you ever made chili or spaghetti? Do you notice that the next day it tastes even better than the night before? Some foods and drinks with complex flavors need time to combine, mellow out, age, etc etc. You can bulk-age easily enough because you're sitting on the yeast cake used in fermentation, and with the higher concentration of yeast in your beer, it can clean up the off flavors quicker and easier.

Basically, if you make a batch of good beer, letting it age in the primary will help ensure that it consistently remains a good beer. If temperature spikes during one batch, you could get off flavors if you went straight to bottle. If you let it age in the primary, those flavors very well might end up cleaning out of the beer.

 

[duskb]

The absolute minimum time needed in the primary is however long it takes to stop fermenting. The best way to establish this is to take consecutive hydrometer readings over 2-3 days (I'm starting to think of taking a reading one day, skipping the second, and taking a reading on the 3rd. I'll notice a change easier that way).

What do you gain from letting beer age?

Have you ever made chili or spaghetti? Do you notice that the next day it tastes even better than the night before? Some foods and drinks with complex flavors need time to combine, mellow out, age, etc etc. You can bulk-age easily enough because you're sitting on the yeast cake used in fermentation, and with the higher concentration of yeast in your beer, it can clean up the off flavors quicker and easier.

Basically, if you make a batch of good beer, letting it age in the primary will help ensure that it consistently remains a good beer. If temperature spikes during one batch, you could get off flavors if you went straight to bottle. If you let it age in the primary, those flavors very well might end up cleaning out of the beer.

Thank you for the very simple and concise answer. I do not have a hydrometer yet but for the time being I can wait another week or so. I still have 30+ bottles from the previous batches to hold me over.

 

[Grinder12000]

I feel lucky - I used to make wine - if you want to know how you handle being patient try THAT - Beer almost seems like instant gratification!

I feel beer is like wine on steroids when it comes to aging. However - I do not know how long the curve is when it is at it's peak.

 

[TerapinChef]

All right...here's an experiment for you.
I just brewed my second batch of Orfy's Hobgoblin Clone.
Due to the overwhelming popularity of the first batch, I decided to make this brewday my inaugural 10 gallon batch. We'll leave aside the details of that experience in lieu of this one...
I ended up with just over 11 gallons of beautiful brown wort. Being as that I don't have a glycol jacketed pressure fermenter, or anything close, I split the batch into two 6.5G carboys. Here's what I'm proposing. I'm going to leave one carboy in primary for a full 28 days. I'll split the other into a secondary after about 14. Both will be bottled using the same technique and then a tasting will ensue. I'll report back the results and see if we can tell the difference.

 

[SilverKing]

I have a question that popped up while reading this:

If I am maintaining the fermentation temp in my primary, is there a time when I can stop worrying about the temp? If I leave it int he primary for 3+weeks, do I need to keep it at the same temp the entire time? Same for secondary...does it need temp maintained or can I set it in the closet and forget it?

I'm not brewing any lagers. My apartment here in FL never gets below 74F in the summer, so I've been keeping my fermentation buckets in coolers/chillers depending on the yeast I'm using.

 

[SilverKing]

looks like someone asked the same question an hour before me. whoops.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=75468

 

[Piotr]

OK, I will play advocatus diaboli now:

This year I made some experiments with fermentation that go exactly the other way.
I used the procedure descibed here:
http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693&highlight=tertiary
It goes like that: Primary as short as possible, brief secondary, and long and cold tertiary for a few weeks.

Autolysis? No, this is not the biggest thread. I'm worried about trub from cold break - it contains some proteins, the food for microbes.
About yeast: when you rack to secondary, you don't get rid of all the yeast, only the dead and week that have already flocculated to the bottom. There is still plenty of healthy yeast in suspension, that will do the cleaning job.

The yield of the experiment was like that: a few times I got under-attenuated beer. But 4 of the beers won prizes.

 

[zoebisch01]

So, I'm a little unclear about this. The "guide book" I've been using states you should run primary for roughly two weeks and then secondary (if you wish) for an additional two weeks. As a noob I got impatient and bottled my last brew (Newcastle clone) after about 10 days in the primary. Within three days of bottling I popped one open and it tasted fine. Since then company has commented on the fine flavor of the beer as well.

More to the point...what's the minimum time I should leave the brew in the primary before bottling it? I see some of you guys leave it in the primary for up to 4 weeks and the guy above is doing more of what I've been doing. What, exactly, do I gain or lose with the extra 2.5 weeks of fermentation?

Sorry I missed responding to this, but TheFlatLine gives a good answer. I want to restate my stance on this, every recipe will have it's own time frame of when it is ready and another time frame when it peaks. Secondary is really a place where the yeast can continue dropping out of suspension. If you want less sediment in your bottle then a secondary is advisable.

However, I have always had excellent results by merely going from primary right to bottle in 10 days on many of the Ales I make. I am also patient enough to know that they'll be sitting in the bottle for a month, 2 or more and that is the other key point to this method. There are supposedly subtle differences between bottle conditioning vs. bulk conditioning, what they are I am not sure anyone has quantified these effects (or so I have not come across). I do know that highly successful breweries like Ommegang bottle condition their Ales after they are in the cold cellar for 2 weeks (for clarification).

 

[Chad]

All right...here's an experiment for you.
I just brewed my second batch of Orfy's Hobgoblin Clone.
Due to the overwhelming popularity of the first batch, I decided to make this brewday my inaugural 10 gallon batch. We'll leave aside the details of that experience in lieu of this one...
I ended up with just over 11 gallons of beautiful brown wort. Being as that I don't have a glycol jacketed pressure fermenter, or anything close, I split the batch into two 6.5G carboys. Here's what I'm proposing. I'm going to leave one carboy in primary for a full 28 days. I'll split the other into a secondary after about 14. Both will be bottled using the same technique and then a tasting will ensue. I'll report back the results and see if we can tell the difference.

I'm really looking forward to the results of this experiment. I have always used a secondary, but on my latest batch I'm just going to leave it in the primary for 21-28 days. I'll be eager to see if my outcome parallels yours.

Chad

 

[zoebisch01]

I'm really looking forward to the results of this experiment. I have always used a secondary, but on my latest batch I'm just going to leave it in the primary for 21-28 days. I'll be eager to see if my outcome parallels yours.

Chad

It will be a good step and I am curious as well, but I'd caution applying the results across the board to all styles. I'd also recommend several random samples from each method and several tasters. :fro:

Looking forward to the results.