Last-minute Wheat Beer questions!

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Scrow

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I bought the following ingredients for a wheat beer I want to make. I got this recipe on a recommendation:

3.3 lbs Thomas Cooper's Malt Extract - Wheat
3.3 lbs Thomas Cooper's Malt Extract - Light
Some amount of Saaz
Some amount of Tettnanger
Orange peel
Coriander


I can't remember the amounts of hops I am supposed to use. I thought it was like 1 oz of Tettnanger and 3/4 oz of Saaz with 1/4 oz burnout Saaz. Also can't find the amounts of Orange peel and Coriander. Seems the thread has gone missing since I last checked!

Any ideas?
Also, should I get any steeping grains for this brew, or just straight water and malt extract?

THANKS!!
 
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Scrow

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3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)

3/4 oz. Tettnanger (60 minutes)
3/4 oz. Saaz (60 minutes)
1/4 oz. Saaz (flameout)

1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)

1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger) your choice

Yeast
WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees

Found the recipe. Does this look like it will turn out similar to a Shock Top or a Blue Moon style beer? Should I steep any grains or just skip the steeping part? Any recommendations for the "secret spice"?
 

SumnerH

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3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)

3/4 oz. Tettnanger (60 minutes)
3/4 oz. Saaz (60 minutes)
1/4 oz. Saaz (flameout)

1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)

1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger) your choice

Yeast
WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees

Found the recipe. Does this look like it will turn out similar to a Shock Top or a Blue Moon style beer? Should I steep any grains or just skip the steeping part? Any recommendations for the "secret spice"?
This will be a pretty close clone of Allagash White, which is one of the top-rated Belgian witbiers (same style as Shock Top/Blue Moon) in the world by most of the beer rating sites.

I'd go with cinnamon or ginger probably, but keep it subtle (truly just a pinch).

EDIT: In fact, this recipe came from Rob Tod, the head brewer at Allagash.
 

SumnerH

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Also, it's either 6.6 lbs of normal wheat extract (which is usually in th 60% wheat/40% barley range), or 3.3 lbs each of light DME and 100% wheat DME.

So make sure your cooper's extract is 100% wheat, or use 6.6 lbs of the wheat and no light if it's the blended kind.
 
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Scrow

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Oh the what I have says it is 50% Malted Barley and 50% Malted Wheat? Is that wrong then? And just a pinch of cinnamon or ginger?

Finally, no steeped grains on this beer?
 

SumnerH

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Oh the what I have says it is 50% Malted Barley and 50% Malted Wheat? Is that wrong then?
That's wrong to use with 3.3 lbs of light ME; it's fine to use 2 of those for 6.6 lbs total of 50/50 barley/wheat.

And just a pinch of cinnamon or ginger?
Yep, whichever seems more appealing. Or one of the others if you like the thought of that better.

Finally, no steeped grains on this beer?
Nope. Many wheats have very simple grain bills.
 

SumnerH

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Oh, here's the full original recipe (you missed the first line) which makes the type of extract needed more apparent:

Preboil
6 gallons water

Boil
6.6 lbs. 40% wheat/ 60% barley liquid malt extract or:
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)

3/4 oz. Tettnanger (60 minutes)

3/4 oz. Saaz (60 minutes)

1/4 oz. Saaz (flameout)

1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)

1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)

1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger) your choice

Yeast

WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees
I consider one the recipe's author to be one of the top 5 commercial brewers in the world as far as making beers that I like.
 
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Scrow

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But it seems like the 50/50 would be the wrong proportions for this beer. I want it to come out close to how it should taste!
 

SumnerH

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But it seems like the 50/50 would be the wrong proportions for this beer. I want it to come out close to how it should taste!
The recipe is either:
6.6 lbs. 40% wheat/ 60% barley liquid malt extract
This comes out to 40% wheat and 60% barley, 6.6 lbs total

or
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)
This comes out to 50% wheat and 50% barley, 6.6 lbs total

Going with 6.6 lbs of your Cooper's that's 50% wheat and 50% barley would come out exactly the same as option #2: 50% wheat, 50% barley, 6.6 lbs total

It's perfectly within the recommended bounds of the recipe.
 

SumnerH

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Incidentally, it's also worth learning what you can substitute safely.

For instance, if a recipe is formulated like this one, then you know you are aiming for:
* Original gravity of 1.049
* 50-60% of that made up of wheat, with the remainder made up of the lightest possible extract

That's it. It gave a couple ways to hit that, but you'd be equally fine going with:
2.7 lbs Breiss wheat DME (60/40)
2.7 lbs Breiss pilsen/light DME

or any other way of hitting the same numbers.

Also, since the recipe says that either a 50/50 or 60/40 wheat/barley ratio is fine, you can pretty safely assume that anything in between (e.g. 55/45) is also fine.

That said, if it were a recipe I thought I might try many times, I'd brew at one extreme the first time (not something in the middle) and the other extreme the second time to see what the difference is and then pick what I liked (or try something in the middle if that seemed appealing).
 
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Scrow

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Brew day was fun, as always. The LHBS was kind and let me exchange the malt for the right stuff. I also picked up some Sweet Orange Peel at the shop, and some corriander. I am amazed how different corriander smells normally versus crushed. The crushed corriander is entirely different and amazing! I went with a pinch of cinnamon for my "secret spice" so I will see how it turns out. Thanks for all the assistance everyone!! You all are my heroes!
 

Berlbrew

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I also picked up some Sweet Orange Peel at the shop, and some corriander.
Just a note- Witbiers generally call for bitter orange peel, not sweet. It's definitely not a problem, just something to plan for in the future.
 

SumnerH

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Yeah, sweet's going to give you something pretty citrusy (not very wit-y) and wits use the peels for some of their bittering. Should still be on okay beer if you like orange, just not the normal spicy wit taste.
 

sundaybrewingco

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Can anyone modify this recipie for a 5 gallon batch? Personally, Allagash White is my favorite beer and I would loooooooove to make a nice clone of this, but I do not have a large enough pot to pre-boil 6 gallons of water. Any help?
 

Berlbrew

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Can anyone modify this recipie for a 5 gallon batch? Personally, Allagash White is my favorite beer and I would loooooooove to make a nice clone of this, but I do not have a large enough pot to pre-boil 6 gallons of water. Any help?
You don't need to do that big of boil if your pot can't handle it, just make sure that if your recipe calls for a full boil to increase your hops by 25%ish.

Is this the recipe you're using?

6.6 lbs. 40% wheat/ 60% barley liquid malt extract or:
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)
3/4 oz. Tettnanger (60 minutes)
3/4 oz. Saaz (60 minutes)
1/4 oz. Saaz (flameout)
1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)
1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger) your choice

If so, just add 1/4oz to each of those hop additions, do a 3 gallon boil, and top it all off with fresh water at the end. You'll be golden.
 

sundaybrewingco

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Whoops! I guess that would of been important to add...

I was going off of this recipie in a previous reply:

Preboil
6 gallons water

Boil
6.6 lbs. 40% wheat/ 60% barley liquid malt extract or:
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (75 minutes)
3/4 oz. Tettnanger (60 minutes)
3/4 oz. Saaz (60 minutes)
1/4 oz. Saaz (flameout)
1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)
1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger) your choice

Yeast
WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees
So, you are saying this recipie would be good for a 5 gallon batch (if my math is right):

6.6 lbs of 40% Wheat/ 60% Barley Liquid Malt Extract
or
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (3 gallons - boil for 75 minutes)

1 oz. Tettnanger (60 Minutes)
1 oz. Saaz (60 Minutes)
1/2 oz. Saaz (flameout)

1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)

1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger)

Yeast
WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees

Let me know if that seems right, and if so, it looks like I will be having some fun this weekend!

Thanks for the big help!
 

Berlbrew

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So, you are saying this recipie would be good for a 5 gallon batch (if my math is right):

6.6 lbs of 40% Wheat/ 60% Barley Liquid Malt Extract
or
3.3 lbs. light/pilsner malt extract and 3.3 lbs 100% wheat malt extract (3 gallons - boil for 75 minutes)

1 oz. Tettnanger (60 Minutes)
1 oz. Saaz (60 Minutes)
1/2 oz. Saaz (flameout)

1/4 oz crushed coriander (flameout)
1/4 oz bitter orange peel (flameout)

1 pinch "secret spice" (flameout)
"secret spice" (anise, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, or ginger)

Yeast
WhiteLabs WLP400 or WLP410.....or Wyeast 3944 or 3463....ferment at 70 degrees
Looks great! You should have yourself one tasty brew! I can easily say that Allagash is #1 IMO when it comes to white ales. It must be that fresh Maine water. The only suggestions I would make- stay away from liquid malt extract, stick with the dried stuff (DME) and go for the WLP400. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
 

sundaybrewingco

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Actually, I was going to ask about that, but I didn't want to be greedy! :)

I haven't done an AG brew yet, but I have done a brew where I steeped the grains for x amount of minutes. If I wanted to do that for the Allagash clone using the recipie above, does anyone have any ideas on what dried DME would work best?? Now, i'm dying for the weekend to come to try this out...
 

whridlsoncestood

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I like up here where they brew allagash and I love the stuff. They make more thanjust great white's tho. Just last night they had a showcase for 50 bucks to get in and they were pouring 19 different brews from them.

I might have to try this recipe out.
 

Jaymo

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I brewed this recipe today and the malted wheat extract was quite a bit darker than the normal color range for this style. I added some spices, and used a different Belgian Ale yeast, so I'll just call it a Belgian Specialty Ale and it's all good, but it really was too dark for the intended style (using Northwest brand.)
 

sundaybrewingco

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Does anyone want to make my weekend super awesome and cook up a quick recipie for Allagash by steeping grains and using DME??????????
 

SumnerH

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Does anyone want to make my weekend super awesome and cook up a quick recipie for Allagash by steeping grains and using DME??????????
There's a pretty good all extract recipe floating around from Rob Tod (Allagash's head brewer. Steeping grains aren't going to help much since what you really want for the next step up is flaked wheat, which needs to be mashed.

Rob Tod's extract recipe: Allagash White
 

sundaybrewingco

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Thanks SumnerH. I will check that out. I heard you can't really get a true Wit out of extract brewing, that's why I was asking for a recipie with steeping grains (i'm not quite ready for AG, yet). I do plan on trying a partial-mash real soon after reading DeathBrewer's instructions on doing so.
 

Bob

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Wait to do this with a partial mash. I'm probably the one who most loudly protests on HBT that you can't brew traditional Witbier using extract only or extract/steep. ;) But if you step up to partial mashing, you can mash the flaked oats and flaked wheat to get you in the right ballpark.

That aside, the recipe posted sounds pretty frelling yummy. Reminds me - I gotta get some summery stuff in the tank...

Good luck!

Bob
 
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