Last 2 batches low efficiency

[Daver77]

I have done 4 all grain batches thus far.

an IPA with 69% efficiency

a hefeweizen with 73% efficiency

a failed attempt at a DIPA which fell at a 57 % efficiency

and today an American wheat with a 49% efficiency

I batch sparge....

The first two I was happy with, the Dipa is fermenting right now and It's not a DIPA since the efficiency was so low. It ended up being a reg IPA.
That particular beer I chalked it up to miss calculating the water amount. I ended up putting way more pre boil than needed.

I normally mash at 150-155. today's wheat I mashed at 148.

The first 2 brews I mashed for 3 hours but since discovering iodine and checking for conversion I mash for as long as needed now.

What could I be doing wrong here?

 

[Maxkling]

Wow 3 hour mashes?

What is your setup?

Do you crush your own grain?

Have you used the same process each batch, just adjusted temp and time and volume?

Much more info needed.

What kind of thermometer are you using?

 

[Daver77]

I have a mash tun / lauter tun cooler set up. I have not crushed my own grain but just got a grain crusher so my next batch possibly tomorrow will use grains crushed by me.

I'm using a reg analog thermometer.

My process so far is heat up water to 170.

Pre heat mash tun for 10 min and then throw in grains.

Mash for 5 min close lid making sure I'm at temp usually 150-155 and let sit for 1 hour.

Vourloff, stir and then 1st runoff. I use 1.25 qts per 1lb of grains btw.

I then pour the equal amount of water I used the first time 1.25 per 1lbs of grains at 170 and let sit for 10 min.

then vorloff stir then 2nd runnings.

I usually have enough pre boil about 6 gallons.

 

[Maxkling]

How accurate is the thermometer? Have you checked the calibration?

 

[Daver77]

the thermometer is pretty new only 6 months old and I believe it to be accurate.

what else?

Should be mixing the grains much before sparging?

 

[Maxkling]

I'd honestly test the thermometer in a cup of ice water and see what it reads.

I'm sure your mixing the mash properly?

Your process is the same as mine. Pre-heat tun, heat strike to what ever I need to hit my tagert and volume of 1.25 to 1.5Q per lb. Then mix like hell and wait 10 min and verify mash temp. Mash for an hour, vorlauf, drain, sparge at 170 for 10 mins, vorlauf and drain.

 

[Daver77]

do you mix the grains again before vorloff and sparge?

 

[Golddiggie]

Does the grain get up to 168-170F for the sparge(s)? You need to heat the first sparge water higher than 170.

I was chasing poor efficiency numbers not that long ago. I finally narrowed it down to wrong sparge temps. I would mash-in to get my target (150-154F typically), then I would only heat the sparge water to 170F. Once I went to the mash-in/mash-out/sparge model I've been hitting much better numbers (76-84%). I use software to figure out how high to heat the mash-out water, and confirm it with a lab thermometer (as well as two other thermometers)... I would suggest checking your thermometer against a few others, as well as a known temperature item (such as a container of crushed ice)... If your thermometer is lab grade, then chances are it's pretty accurate (or close enough for our uses).

For giggles, try the mash-in/mash-out/sparge profile with the next batch.

 

[PaulTheGhost]

I was having the same problem: heating my sparge water to only 170, so I never mashed out fully. What I do now is mash, add about a gallon of water at about 200 which raises the grain to 170, hold that for ten minutes then vorlauf and sparge with water just a smidgen over 170. I went from an average of 65 to a consistent 75 in effeciency. and consistency is what I need most since I make all of my own recipes.

 

[Daver77]

I was having the same problem: heating my sparge water to only 170, so I never mashed out fully. What I do now is mash, add about a gallon of water at about 200 which raises the grain to 170, hold that for ten minutes then vorlauf and sparge with water just a smidgen over 170. I went from an average of 65 to a consistent 75 in effeciency. and consistency is what I need most since I make all of my own recipes.

that sounds like it could be my problem as well.

My question is before vorlauf does it matter that I stir up the grains?

 

[rjschroed]

only stir while your adding water. Don't ever stir withing 10 minutes of draining. Your process should go: Mash in at X Temp., stir like crazy, at this point I move my tun into the position in which I will drain it from (up on a table over my boil kettle). When your hour has passed vorlauf and drain immediately. Be careful not to disturb that grain bed. Add your sparge water, stir, let the grain bed settle for 10-20 min, vorlauf, drain.

The Merits of a mash out for batch sparging have been long debated on this site. Do what you want with that.

The only other thing I can tell you that I do differently is that I always batch sparge with enough water to hit the pre-boil volume I'm shooting for.

I don't know if you do this or not but I honestly don't know how some people brew all grain with out the help of a good software program. I use beersmith and it takes all the guess work and calculating out. Once you have the program configured for your setup it spits out numbers that work perfectly.

 

[PaulTheGhost]

My process:
mash in by stirring the grains for 5-10 minutes, stabalizing temp and then let it sit for an hour.
Add .5 gallon at 200, stir for 5, stabalize at 170, let rest for 5.
I vorlauf, drain, first round of batch sparging by stirring in hot water and sit for 10.
Vorlauf, drain, second round of batch sparging for ten.
Then I boil.

Hope that helps.

 

[Haputanlas]

You should be decreasing your volume instead of sacrificing your gravity numbers. Your beer should end up as close to your recipe as possible IMO.

Instead of a regular IPA, the double IPA should have still been a double IPA with a lower volume. That's the way I prefer it. Consistency is key.

 

[Daver77]

only stir while your adding water. Don't ever stir withing 10 minutes of draining. Your process should go: Mash in at X Temp., stir like crazy, at this point I move my tun into the position in which I will drain it from (up on a table over my boil kettle). When your hour has passed vorlauf and drain immediately. Be careful not to disturb that grain bed. Add your sparge water, stir, let the grain bed settle for 10-20 min, vorlauf, drain.

The Merits of a mash out for batch sparging have been long debated on this site. Do what you want with that.

The only other thing I can tell you that I do differently is that I always batch sparge with enough water to hit the pre-boil volume I'm shooting for.

I don't know if you do this or not but I honestly don't know how some people brew all grain with out the help of a good software program. I use beersmith and it takes all the guess work and calculating out. Once you have the program configured for your setup it spits out numbers that work perfectly.

This is helpful thanks. Going to try again with a amber ale

Actually a lot of helpful post on here I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[rjschroed]

Happy to help. Paul The Ghost process is very similar to what I do and I imagine makes very good beer as well

 

[Daver77]

OK, brewed an Amber ale today over shot my number from 1.058 to 1.061. Only because I had my brewing software set at 70% efficiency.

Today I got a 73% efficiency and the difference was I did not stir the grains right before vorloff.

I got a new thermometer this one has a cable that goes into the mash tun and I can see the temp without opening it.

 

[PaulTheGhost]

For my first two all grains, I was using a floating thermometer to monitor mash temps.
They both finished at around 1.004! About 10 points lower than they should have been.
When I compared the floating with my calibrated SS thermometer that came with my beginners kit, it was about 8 degrees below actually mash temp. I added malto dextrin to the two beers before bottling to add some mouthfeel (since they would be so thin due to the low FG) and they both turned out grain.

Definitely invest in a high quality thermometer to monitor mash temps.

 

[SethMasterFlex]

only stir while your adding water. Don't ever stir withing 10 minutes of draining.

There is nothing wrong with draining after stirring. There is no reason not to. This can actually help form a nice grain bed if you perform a proper vorlauf and make sure you have clear runnings before you start collection in your kettle. The key is to not let your runnings collect too fast because, waiting 10 mins or not, your grain bed can compact if you're draining rapidly and cause a stuck sparge.

Does the grain get up to 168-170F for the sparge(s)? You need to heat the first sparge water higher than 170.

Yes, hotter water will help collect sugars better, but the mash out/sparge water heating the grain bed up to 170 is primarily to inactivate amylase enzymes and to stop conversion from occurring in the collection kettle. I only bring this up because I don't think is the source of the 50% efficiency the OP is getting.

OP: Get that thermometer calibrated. My original analog thermometer that I've had for a year and a half is off by like 6 degrees. Mash temp is a big factor in getting proper efficiency. The lower you mash the longer you need to mash. Is your mash losing heat from start to finish? If you mash @152ºF is it still 152ºF when you're ready to collect your runnings? If you are seeing temp drops then poor insulation may be the culprit.

Just analyze your process and keep trying different things. You'll figure it all out and before you know you it you'll be hitting stable efficiencies.