Lambic Discussion Thread

[quirkzoo1]

Big Sky Kriek.

 

[Billy Brux]

burnt rubber can be caused by yeast autolysis

Another flavor that can develop in beer as a result of prolonged exposure to heat is related directly to the breakdown of yeast. If the beer that has been exposed to high temperatures is bottle conditioned and contains residual yeast, the yeast will begin to autolyze. Yeast autolysis will produce a flavor and aroma similar to burning tire rubber.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/online-extras/oxidation-good-beer-gone-bad

 

[Michigan1]

novice to early-intermediate lambic drinker here, basic question:

what's the cause of burnt rubber/tire flavors that sometimes come up?

from messing around recently, i seem to be more sensitive to it if i've eaten a lot of salt through the day, or have pretty gnarly palate fatigue going on. i also seem to pick it up more at colder serving temperatures, and younger gueuzes. last night, i put a bottle of 3f og (jan 2013 bottling) in the fridge for a couple hours, and each glass i poured i noticed less. had the bottle sitting out on the table throughout consuming it, over the course of 90 minutes or so. probably originally popped in the high 40*F range or so, and warmed over time.

it's been pretty prevalent to me in the couple of bottles of this vintage i've consumed, but haven't noticed it on older bottles. so, where i'm going is, is this something that gets cleaned up over time, or are other factors skewing my experiences? i don't recall ever getting any in the 2009 or 2010 375s i drank. also, i seem to pick up on it a lot more with 3f than cantillon or tilquin or similar age.

phenols? i doubt it'd be chlorophenol. but wtf do i know.

i've had my bottles stored in a dark central closet in cases, and keep the house at 72*F. don't have a proper cellar fridge yet. however, with such young bottles i'd assume that this wouldn't be something created by storage conditions, when i've only had the bottles for a few months.

maybe other environmental elements are causing me to have a heightened sensitivity to something. idk. it's distracting enough to be irritating and overpower the bright lemony fruity sourness for me, which is a shame.

or maybe my tongue is a ******.

I don't think I've ever experienced this in any lambic...

I tasted a noticeable asphalt/blacktop/burnt-rubber flavor in a 2001 3F Oude Geuze. All other people noticed it too, without me having to point it out.

 

[stupac2]

burnt rubber can be caused by yeast autolysis

I thought autolysis produced flavors that were meaty.

I tasted a noticeable asphalt/blacktop/burnt-rubber flavor in a 2001 3F Oude Geuze. All other people noticed it too, without me having to point it out.

Hmm, I've had a number of bottles of that and didn't pick it up. It's possible that I'm just not very sensitive to this. That's another thing to keep in mind, people's sensitivities to flavors can vary by orders of magnitude.

 

[Snarf1]

burnt rubber can be caused by yeast autolysis

I've not heard that before. The flavor I generally associate with autolysis is sort of a cat food/spoiled meat kind thing.

I tasted a noticeable asphalt/blacktop/burnt-rubber flavor in a 2001 3F Oude Geuze. All other people noticed it too, without me having to point it out.

I've never gotten tire/electrical fire that I can recall. I do get wet asphalt sometimes, but never in a bad way. It was very noticeable in whichever of the 4 seasons I got a taste of at the BASC release, but wasn't overpowering and in no way detracted from the beer.

 

[MordorMongo]

Cantillon classic smells like pickles and electrical fire.

Once told this by TurdFurgison at a tasting at claaark13's house, now I can't make it not so.

 

[Billy Brux]

Yes autolysis can produce meatyness, but it can also produce burnt rubber.

 

[stupac2]

Cantillon classic smells like pickles and electrical fire.

Once told this by TurdFurgison at a tasting at claaark13's house, now I can't make it not so.

According to some of the degenerates I drink with, some, but not all, bottles of 2012 Mamouche taste like pickles. The others taste like sweet peas. The former are the "good" bottles.

 

[claaark13]

Cantillon classic smells like pickles and electrical fire.

Once told this by TurdFurgison at a tasting at claaark13's house, now I can't make it not so.

It smells less like a tire fire after blended with fresh two hearted.

 

[Snarf1]

Yes autolysis can produce meatyness, but it can also produce burnt rubber.

Do you have any links you can share other than the one you posted already? Electrical fire/burnt rubber/etc is a volatile phenol, 4-ethyl-phenol and possibly 4-ethyl-guaiacol as far as I know and is casused by brettanomyces.

 

[Billy Brux]

Do you have any links you can share other than the one you posted already? Electrical fire/burnt rubber/etc is a volatile phenol, 4-ethyl-phenol and possibly 4-ethyl-guaiacol as far as I know and is casused by brettanomyces.

At a minimum, a beer that has experienced autolysis will have a burnt rubber taste and smell and will probably be undrinkable. At worst it will be unapproachable.

 

[Snarf1]

I don't think one sentence from the book that warns of the dangers of hot side aeration is the most reliable source.

 

[Dunt1]

According to some of the degenerates I drink with, some, but not all, bottles of 2012 Mamouche taste like pickles. The others taste like sweet peas. The former are the "good" bottles.

Every vintage tastes like pickles. His worst lambic by a long stretch.

 

[stupac2]

Every vintage tastes like pickles. His worst lambic by a long stretch.

I actually really like Mamouche.

 

[Der Fuchs]

Every vintage tastes like pickles. His worst lambic by a long stretch.

Well call me a pickle wrangler because I'm with this guy:

I actually really like Mamouche.

Aside from the 2011 and 2012 zwanze it is my favorite of them all. My wife's too.

 

[GetchaPull]

His worst lambic by a long stretch.

Not Blabaer?

 

[stupac2]

Not Blabaer?

Blabs isn't bad, it's just unremarkable. Except the color, dear god is that beer pretty.

 

[GetchaPull]

Blabs isn't bad, it's just unremarkable. Except the color, dear god is that beer pretty.

Mamouche > Blabaer, IMO, but the dislike for Mamouche is warranted. Agreed, gorgeous, but it's like Blabaer is randalled through a half dozen Walmart bags.

 

[Dunt1]

Not Blabaer?

Definitely not Blabaer. And I don't even care for blabaer that much.

 

[axeman91821]

I get way too much of a pepper flavor in Mamouche, it's one of the few Cantillon beers I don't care for. Blabaer is tasty, but not nearly worth the effort/$ it takes to acquire one.

 

[ASUBeer]

Anyone open a Herfst lately?

 

[SeaWatchman]

Anyone open a Herfst lately?

I likely will tomorrow or this week. I've had one in a basket since I picked them up a week ago.

Also I love Mamouche. Last one I had we decanted into a clay pot and let it breathe for about a half hour. Huge game changer.

 

[ASUBeer]

Let me know what you think. Last Herfst I had was almost a year ago. It was fantastic and seemed to be headed down a nice funky road of aging.

I've also said that I like to decant some geuzes for 45 minutes or so and what a difference it makes. I always thought I was crazy because I've never seen other people so it. But 30-45 minutes of decanting can make a lambic a totally different beer.

 

[HenrikO]

Let me know what you think. Last Herfst I had was almost a year ago. It was fantastic and seemed to be headed down a nice funky road of aging.

I've also said that I like to decant some geuzes for 45 minutes or so and what a difference it makes. I always thought I was crazy because I've never seen other people so it. But 30-45 minutes of decanting can make a lambic a totally different beer.

Jean himself decants certain lambics (mainly older vintages, I think) at the brasserie. So you're in good company.

 

[tehzachatak]

Anyone else ever heard/experienced that thing where if you drink gueuze right before you go to sleep after a lot of drinking, you magically feel great the next morning? I think I first heard this from Shaun Hill.. anyway, I accidentally did it last night (if you consider Resurgam a gueuze), and I feel great this morning, where by all rights I should have a terrible hangover. Weird.

 

[stupac2]

Anyone else ever heard/experienced that thing where if you drink gueuze right before you go to sleep after a lot of drinking, you magically feel great the next morning? I think I first heard this from Shaun Hill.. anyway, I accidentally did it last night (if you consider Resurgam a gueuze), and I feel great this morning, where by all rights I should have a terrible hangover. Weird.

I've definitely had rough mornings after drinking almost exclusively lambic the night before, so I'm calling ******** on that one.

 

[tehzachatak]

I've definitely had rough mornings after drinking almost exclusively lambic the night before, so I'm calling ******** on that one.

Yeah, I mean, there's no reason it should work. Just one of those stupid things...

 

[SeaWatchman]

I've never had worse mornings than mornings spent after drinking nothing but lambic all day/night. Forgetfu 's basement will never be the same.

 

[Michigan1]

Cantillon Mamouche is disliked by many. But if you call it Zwanze 2009, people love it!!

 

[Dunt1]

Anyone else ever heard/experienced that thing where if you drink gueuze right before you go to sleep after a lot of drinking, you magically feel great the next morning? I think I first heard this from Shaun Hill.. anyway, I accidentally did it last night (if you consider Resurgam a gueuze), and I feel great this morning, where by all rights I should have a terrible hangover. Weird.

If Shaun Hill said it, it is 100% undoubtedly true. And that's the bottom line, because Shaun Hill said so.