Lambic Discussion Thread

[Dbijnagte]

Anyone ever have a bottle get destroyed in transit from etre? How do they usually treat situations like that?

I have from BiaB. Kurt said it’s always buyers risk.

 

[stupac2]

Anyone ever have a bottle get destroyed in transit from etre? How do they usually treat situations like that?

I did, I don't think I even told them about it. It's not really their problem.

 

[wuntrikpony]

It's not really their problem.

How do you figure?

 

[mvl339]

I did, I don't think I even told them about it. It's not really their problem.

Yeah I agree with that unless the packaging is less than ideal. In this case I think the bottle was at the bottom of the box and was not sitting on top of the foam chips so it probably got busted on a hard impact so unclear but it was like a 7$ bottle so not worth the fight.

 

[stupac2]

How do you figure?

I mean, I guess it depends on whether you think the sender or the receiver should be the one making sure the law in the receiver's country is being followed, but these packages are being shipped illegally. And as long as they've taken proper care that the bottles should survive routine handling, it's not really their problem, it's USPS's (or whoever). You gonna take it up with USPS?

I know that a lot of companies will fall on their swords and take blame, but they don't always and shipping is one hell of a lot cheaper for Amazon than Etre.

 

[wuntrikpony]

I mean, I guess it depends on whether you think the sender or the receiver should be the one making sure the law in the receiver's country is being followed, but these packages are being shipped illegally. And as long as they've taken proper care that the bottles should survive routine handling, it's not really their problem, it's USPS's (or whoever). You gonna take it up with USPS?

I know that a lot of companies will fall on their swords and take blame, but they don't always and shipping is one hell of a lot cheaper for Amazon than Etre.

It’s really not about the legality of shipping. If something broke and the box has no external damage, that is the seller’s responsibility for poor packaging. If the box has external damage, then the seller should refund the cost to the buyer and contact their shipping company for an insurance claim. If the shipper can’t make a claim, that’s their problem and they need to eat the cost. People who ship without proper insurance take that risk. Is it worth the seller’s time to make a $20 claim on a $250 order? Probably not, but that’s the cost of doing business.

Now, on the BIAB site, there is a disclaimer that your box will be ‘dispatched at your own risk’ so you are essentially agreeing to that vaugue policy by purchasing. I think it’s a ******** policy and it follows suit with the rest of their customer service practices. If your package never arrives or everything inside it is broken you’re SOL? That’s not clear.

One part of the site says to contact Kurt if you receive a damaged item. On another part of the site it says to hand the package back to your carrier to return to sender. Not really sure if that even works, but in the end, policies aren’t even consistent.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

It’s really not about the legality of shipping. If something broke and the box has no external damage, that is the seller’s responsibility for poor packaging. If the box has external damage, then the seller should refund the cost to the buyer and contact their shipping company for an insurance claim. If the shipper can’t make a claim, that’s their problem and they need to eat the cost. People who ship without proper insurance take that risk. Is it worth the seller’s time to make a $20 claim on a $250 order? Probably not, but that’s the cost of doing business.

Now, on the BIAB site, there is a disclaimer that your box will be ‘dispatched at your own risk’ so you are essentially agreeing to that vaugue policy by purchasing. I think it’s a ******** policy and it follows suit with the rest of their customer service practices. If your package never arrives or everything inside it is broken you’re SOL? That’s not clear.

One part of the site says to contact Kurt if you receive a damaged item. On another part of the site it says to hand the package back to your carrier to return to sender. Not really sure if that even works, but in the end, policies aren’t even consistent.

^stupac’d

 

[Mug Costanza]

Had a box shipped to me recently from Belgian Happiness. Prices were great. Box was trash, very wet (not their fault) and not much than cardboard dividers, when it arrived. 2015 3F was the only causality. Messaged them and told them the situation and they emailed back quickly with apologies and voucher equivalent of the bottle. I don’t believe it was their fault in this instance but the packaging was weak comparatively.

Not sure if this adds anything

 

[jbdpsu82]

There are a couple of bottles of 2016 3F Oude Kriek on Etre for anyone that needs to fill a box.

 

[Shakedwnst]

There are a couple of bottles of 2016 3F Oude Kriek on Etre for anyone that needs to fill a box.

I had a 2/2016 bottle not that long ago that was very sour and not what I remember about 3F Kriek. YMMV.

Only say that bc I specifically saw that vintage mentioned as being newly available somewhere else very recently

 

[stupac2]

It’s really not about the legality of shipping. If something broke and the box has no external damage, that is the seller’s responsibility for poor packaging. If the box has external damage, then the seller should refund the cost to the buyer and contact their shipping company for an insurance claim. If the shipper can’t make a claim, that’s their problem and they need to eat the cost. People who ship without proper insurance take that risk. Is it worth the seller’s time to make a $20 claim on a $250 order? Probably not, but that’s the cost of doing business.

Now, on the BIAB site, there is a disclaimer that your box will be ‘dispatched at your own risk’ so you are essentially agreeing to that vaugue policy by purchasing. I think it’s a ******** policy and it follows suit with the rest of their customer service practices. If your package never arrives or everything inside it is broken you’re SOL? That’s not clear.

One part of the site says to contact Kurt if you receive a damaged item. On another part of the site it says to hand the package back to your carrier to return to sender. Not really sure if that even works, but in the end, policies aren’t even consistent.

The legality certainly does matter because it means you can't make an insurance claim against it. So the question is who eats the loss: the person who knowingly sold/shipped the goods into a jurisdiction where it was illegal; or the person who knowingly bought the goods and asked them to be exported to his country without taking proper care that it was legal. I know that when my company exports to other countries the receivers take care of all the paperwork, we may have to fill some forms out but they're the ones giving us the forms, etc (I recently had to wait weeks before shipping something because the paperwork from customs kept getting lost on the way to the buyer). That's why my thinking is that it's on the receiver and it's not really Etre's problem. The receiver's lack of proper clearance prevents Etre from making their insurance claim against the shipper.

All that said, I don't think it's particularly obvious who should eat the loss and the modern gestalt, at least in the US, is for the sender to do it, so your point is fair.

 

[rrryanc]

The legality certainly does matter because it means you can't make an insurance claim against it. So the question is who eats the loss: the person who knowingly sold/shipped the goods into a jurisdiction where it was illegal; or the person who knowingly bought the goods and asked them to be exported to his country without taking proper care that it was legal. I know that when my company exports to other countries the receivers take care of all the paperwork, we may have to fill some forms out but they're the ones giving us the forms, etc (I recently had to wait weeks before shipping something because the paperwork from customs kept getting lost on the way to the buyer). That's why my thinking is that it's on the receiver and it's not really Etre's problem. The receiver's lack of proper clearance prevents Etre from making their insurance claim against the shipper.

All that said, I don't think it's particularly obvious who should eat the loss and the modern gestalt, at least in the US, is for the sender to do it, so your point is fair.

I'll just point out that B2B sales are a whole different beast than B2C. We ship almost everything ExWorks, which means as soon as it leaves our building it's no longer our problem.

That said, if we didn't package one of our products well, you'd be damn sure that our customers would be calling up and complaining (and we'd rightfully make them right). If the FedEx truck burns up though (true story) then that's not on us, and the customer would need to pursue reimbursement from the shipping agency.

 

[bramsdell]

Probably a stupid question - does Hannssens still send stuff here? When I lived in Boston many years ago, it was super easy to find and, if you didn't mind the sometimes-extreme sourness, a cheaper alternative to 3F. I've since lived in NC and now DC and I literally never see it on shelves. Behind all that sourness was a funk that I used to absolutely love. Would love to try some again if it's still distributed here.

 

[lazerviking]

Probably a stupid question - does Hannssens still send stuff here? When I lived in Boston many years ago, it was super easy to find and, if you didn't mind the sometimes-extreme sourness, a cheaper alternative to 3F. I've since lived in NC and now DC and I literally never see it on shelves. Behind all that sourness was a funk that I used to absolutely love. Would love to try some again if it's still distributed here.

Not sure about other markets but it’s all over the place in Philly. Often the only lambic option at most WFs.

 

[NClambicguy]

Yet another new Hommage blend on Etre. This is getting crazy.

 

[stupac2]

I'll just point out that B2B sales are a whole different beast than B2C. We ship almost everything ExWorks, which means as soon as it leaves our building it's no longer our problem.

That said, if we didn't package one of our products well, you'd be damn sure that our customers would be calling up and complaining (and we'd rightfully make them right). If the FedEx truck burns up though (true story) then that's not on us, and the customer would need to pursue reimbursement from the shipping agency.

A lot of our shipments are to end users who are academics, which probably straddles the line. But either way I don't think it's as clear as he was making it out to be.

 

[The Red Viper]

Yet another new Hommage blend on Etre. This is getting crazy.

It’s almost like it isn’t that rare/isn’t that hard to make a raspberry lambic and our perceptions of rarity are being managed to get us to buy more than we otherwise would given that it’s priced two to three times higher than the raspberry lambic from other top blenders, and two to three times higher than 3F kriek (which IMO is a lot better anyway).

 

[boogercrack]

Yet another new Hommage blend on Etre. This is getting crazy.

magz too

 

[NClambicguy]

I had no idea the average tilquin was so “young.” Interesting.

 

[jbdpsu82]

It’s almost like it isn’t that rare/isn’t that hard to make a raspberry lambic and our perceptions of rarity are being managed to get us to buy more than we otherwise would given that it’s priced two to three times higher than the raspberry lambic from other top blenders, and two to three times higher than 3F kriek (which IMO is a lot better anyway).

Well when you put it that way I feel silly for buying each bottle of Hommage they had available

Just kidding... I've actually never had it. So I figured I would splurge and give them a whirl. They're pricey, but also literally impossible to find in central PA (as with any 3F really). Perhaps I'll come to the same realization as you after tasting them.

 

[The Red Viper]

Well when you put it that way I feel silly for buying each bottle of Hommage they had available

Just kidding... I've actually never had it. So I figured I would splurge and give them a whirl. They're pricey, but also literally impossible to find in central PA (as with any 3F really). Perhaps I'll come to the same realization as you after tasting them.

I’m no my judging anyone who buys them. I don’t like Hommage that much so haven’t bought them but I mean, if the availability and pricing of Hommage vs 3F Kriek were flipped, I’d be buying each batch of Kriek I could, because I love it. And I sure as **** will buy every bottle of Golden Blend I have the chance to. Sometimes you pay what you have to to get something you like even if the marketing/pricing doesn’t really make sense. In this case I’m happy to be in the indifferent camp on the $50 bottle though.

 

[adfenton]

Probably a stupid question - does Hannssens still send stuff here? When I lived in Boston many years ago, it was super easy to find and, if you didn't mind the sometimes-extreme sourness, a cheaper alternative to 3F. I've since lived in NC and now DC and I literally never see it on shelves. Behind all that sourness was a funk that I used to absolutely love. Would love to try some again if it's still distributed here.

Hanssen's stuff is still available, but your local shop might have to special order it from the importer, B United. I know my wholesaler doesn't stock Hanssen's in their warehouse, I have to place an order directly from B United to get it.

 

[primebeer]

I had no idea the average tilquin was so “young.” Interesting.

Is there any .info on the average age of blends by the other producers? I've always assumed a number pretty close to the average age he mentioned because I've read/heard before that it is not equal parts of each age level. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[Lamnic]

I’m no my judging anyone who buys them. I don’t like Hommage that much so haven’t bought them but I mean, if the availability and pricing of Hommage vs 3F Kriek were flipped, I’d be buying each batch of Kriek I could, because I love it. And I sure as **** will buy every bottle of Golden Blend I have the chance to. Sometimes you pay what you have to to get something you like even if the marketing/pricing doesn’t really make sense. In this case I’m happy to be in the indifferent camp on the $50 bottle though.

Been passing on hommage since it eclipsed 25 euro. I think the last I bought was bottled 2015.
Locals all pass on 3F now. Soon Americans will too. I think prices will come back down eventually.

 

[The Red Viper]

Is there any .info on the average age of blends by the other producers? I've always assumed a number pretty close to the average age he mentioned because I've read/heard before that it is not equal parts of each age level. Interesting nonetheless.

Well Boon Mariage Parfait is 95% 3 year lambic supposedly.

Assemblage 26 of 17-18 Armand and Gaston says almost a third of blend is 3 year old, which implies that’s higher than usual...

 

[Lamnic]

-or-

?

 

[rrryanc]

A lot of our shipments are to end users who are academics, which probably straddles the line. But either way I don't think it's as clear as he was making it out to be.

That's almost certainly still B2B - it is in our business. Even when done via CC, it's still ultimately a purchase by the university and bound by their purchasing requirements.

 

[infi]

Yet another new Hommage blend on Etre. This is getting crazy.

Damnit, it's my birth date bottle too. But that price is so unjustifiable at this point, not even considering shipping to NY. And even making a full box costs so much more lately, compared to other Etre orders I've done years ago.

 

[NClambicguy]

I’m no my judging anyone who buys them. I don’t like Hommage that much so haven’t bought them but I mean, if the availability and pricing of Hommage vs 3F Kriek were flipped, I’d be buying each batch of Kriek I could, because I love it. And I sure as **** will buy every bottle of Golden Blend I have the chance to. Sometimes you pay what you have to to get something you like even if the marketing/pricing doesn’t really make sense. In this case I’m happy to be in the indifferent camp on the $50 bottle though.

I'm more shocked by the increase in the price of Golden Blend with these recent batches. $60 in the US is pretty crazy compared to what it used to be when it sat on shelves.

 

[Saind]

Is there any .info on the average age of blends by the other producers? I've always assumed a number pretty close to the average age he mentioned because I've read/heard before that it is not equal parts of each age level. Interesting nonetheless.

Tilquin added: “In the typical Tilquin gueuze blend (which is comprised of ten 400 liter barrels of lambic) I use four barrels of Lindemans, three barrels of Boon, two barrels of Girardin, and one barrel of Cantillon. I feel these four different lambics each add something unique to the blend, and together, they make for a very accessible, complex, drinkable Oude Gueuze.”

from http://drinkbelgianbeer.com/breweri...ilquin-owner-master-blender-gueuzerie-tilquin

He is pretty open about the ages as well and I've heard him tell the ages but I can't remember